Interview Deus Ex: Human Revolution Definitely Has Challenge

[MisterStone]

Yeah I never finished the game after getting about 70% through it, the sword was just so ludicrous and the big cut scene showdowns ended in like 5 seconds thanks to it.

 

[Silellak]

Either way, I really have no issue with "level scaling" in a Deus Ex game. It's a shooter with light RPG elements, FFS. The only time level scaling is truly awful is when it's implemented poorly in a sandbox game, where the focus is intended to be exploration.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they are above level-scaling. I just can't see how it is possible to level-scale a linear progression of maps, unless you mean the old 'enemies get harder as you go further' difficulty progression of all linear games.

Easy: The more augs you find and more side-missions you do the stronger your enemies get(I'm not saying this is how it is, but it certainly could be). Besides, if this game is like DX, it won't be totally linear, more like a linear succession of small hubs and missions that tie the hubs together.

Alternatively, it could be like: Oh, so you got the aug upgrade to bypass X element of the hacking minigame, so now bypassing X will actually be necessary to win.

I'm waiting for some smart whippersnapper to plug a minigame to the developers/publishers where you have to either stay hidden out of sight of patrolling guards for a f,ixed period of time whenever lock-picking or hacking, with the time period (and perhaps item usage) being dependent on skill level. Totally immersive, as it doesn't take the player out of the game - they can stay on the same gameplay screen while playing the minigame.

I mean, even AS a minigame, the old 'dodge the guards' schtick of Deus Ex and SS2 was miles more fun than any minigame since. Just needs to be marketed as a minigame now and I'm sure some developer would swallow it up.

 

[Sceptic]

Hmmm...since he says "how you level up" and "how much experience you have", then maybe it's about you getting more XP depending on how many optional objectives you complete, or how good your performance is (detected too many times, got hit too many times, etc).

Like, play better = more XP to level how you choose but enemies get harder to avoid total roflstomping.

Which creates exactly the same problem as in open-world RPG's: in the best case scenario there is no point in playing better or doing any of the optional objectives because you will get no real advantage later on, and in the worst case scenario the scaling sucks so much that you have to AVOID playing better or doing optional stuff, and you get Oblivion all over again (minus the open world).

 

[Archibald]

in the best case scenario there is no point in playing better or doing any of the optional objectives because you will get no real advantage later on

And why the fuck do we nead advantage? Where are those glorious days where we did stuff because it was enjoyable, not because we could rape enemies harder in next area?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

And why the fuck do we nead advantage? Where are those glorious days where we did stuff because it was enjoyable, not because we could rape enemies harder in next area?

Fuck you and your LARPer shit.

 

[Duckard]

If the difficulty scaling is done well with stuff like "enemies attack from all directions" rather than "+50 health to all enemies", I don't see a problem with it. It don't see an issue with this in a linear game- they can easily change up the encounters and levels a bit depending on how much xp the player has. Of course, this is pure speculation and it may just be the whole bigger and bigger numbers as the game progresses thing.

 

[CraigCWB]

If the difficulty scaling is done well with stuff like "enemies attack from all directions" rather than "+50 health to all enemies", I don't see a problem with it.

Ah, but he said there is no difficulty scaling. They use level scaling instead.

Anyway, I've been waiting for a very long time to have enemies fight harder and smarter when I increase the difficulty. It seems like my expectations are too high, though, because I always get "Enemies have 3x normal health, hit 2x harder, have various immunities and etc" or "Player does .25 normal damage, player takes 3x normal damage, and etc" instead.

That's OK though. I'm just grateful they even bother with including difficulty settings at all in most games. Developers these days are obviously not focused on providing challenging gameplay.

It don't see an issue with this in a linear game- they can easily change up the encounters and levels a bit depending on how much xp the player has. Of course, this is pure speculation and it may just be the whole bigger and bigger numbers as the game progresses thing.

I don't intend to buy the game because I didn't even care much for DX1 and that's considered a "classic" by at least some fans of that genre. It's not so easy to use the usual tricks for "increased difficulty" in a linear shooter, though. They can't arbitrarily require higher numbers to pass skill checks because they've already tuned the skill checks to match what the player could potentially have at a given point in the game. If they boosted the requirements people would be unable to do things they were supposed to be able to do. I recall in DX1 early in the game I stealth killed a guy who was standing around having a conversation with his buddy. His buddy didn't even notice. I got into position and stealth killed him too. What are the odds that people who think such gimped AI scripting is a cool feature are going to make a serious effort at keeping enemies at least somewhat competitive?

 

[Harold]

Sebastien Bitch: It’s one difficulty to rule them all.

We almost got to page 3 without making the obvious joke.

 

[KreideBein]

I'm gonna have to wait till someone who isn't a marketing drone explains what the fuck this guy is talking about. Making a big deal about difficulty scaling in a linear game is like making a big deal about jumping in a platformer, so I'm guessing that he just had no idea what he was saying.

Anyway, I've been waiting for a very long time to have enemies fight harder and smarter when I increase the difficulty. It seems like my expectations are too high, though, because I always get "Enemies have 3x normal health, hit 2x harder, have various immunities and etc" or "Player does .25 normal damage, player takes 3x normal damage, and etc" instead.

Far Cry did this to a degree. On realistic difficulty, enemies seemed to try to flank you, suppress you, and flush you from cover more often. Additionally, rather than just making the player extremely weak and the enemies extremely strong in terms of health and damage dealt, the player and the enemies were pretty much on a level field (the human enemies, at least). It only took a few bullets to kill you, but the same applied for the enemies (and headshots were always one-hit kills).

 

[Twinkle]

Yep, FC is p. good example of difficulty settings done right. The majority just adds resists and fatness to mob making games more tedious instead of more challenging.

 

[oneself]

The first game was - in terms of difficulty - quite challenging.

I think I saw someone - a guy in a trenchcoat.

...

Must have been a rat.