Diablo 2 ruined ARPGs forever

[GaelicVigil]

How did it go so wrong? These are not video games. These are slot machines.

I could list a dozen more like these. What is even the difference between these titles? What is even going on? It's all the same nonsense, maybe a slightly different skin color. Has this genre really innovated anything since Diablo 2? How anyone can enjoy this mind-numbing trash is beyond me.

 

[GaelicVigil]

Believe it or not, but there was a time before Diablo 2 destroyed the genre where an action RPG like this made you sweat and where tactics actually mattered a little bit, where you felt like you were actually questing inside a dungeon. For example, the early levels of Diablo 1 are pretty awesome, especially in multiplayer. Talking to each other and preparation is vital to survive. I wish more action RPGs played like this.



A couple other ARPGs that actually require some forethought:

Sacred 1 (Start on Silver difficulty, it's a whole different experience)


Nightstone. This game is pretty unknown and underrated. It actually has a stealth system and you can play asynchronous multiplayer since each character starts on a different side of the map


DarkStone (maybe? At least it had a food system)



I can't think of many more. Any others out there you can recommend? Is anyone even trying to make games like this anymore?

 

[Gandalf]

NoX

 

[GaelicVigil]

Another criminally underrated game. Cybermercs. This took me hours to get running properly (I even got multiplayer working), but it was totally worth it.

 

[Butter]

Is there anything to discuss? Diablo 2, probably more than any other game, figured out how to gamify addiction. All of these games are about racing to the "endgame content", which just entails grinding boss runs looking for 0.00001% drops so you can clear that same boss fight 12% faster. It's one of the worst things that ever happened to video games.

Imagine if when you beat Fallout, you go back and fight the Master over and over again because 1 time in 10000 he drops a Legendary Plasma Rifle. You can't just beat the game and play something else. You have to stick with a game you've already completed because you haven't found the best gear yet.

 

[Gandalf]

Harbinger

 

[GaelicVigil]

NoX

I only half agree there, that's why I didn't list it. It was kind of a run-and-gun game especially the multiplayer portion which played more like capture the flag or something.
Edit: But, yeah, it's still an awesome game.

Harbinger

Hadn't heard of this. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks.

Almost forgot about Divine Divinity

 

[Gandalf]

NoX

I only half agree there, that's why I didn't list it. It was kind of a run-and-gun game especially the multiplayer portion which played more like capture the flag or something.
Edit: But, yeah, it's still an awesome game.

Harbinger

Hadn't heard of this. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks.

Almost forgot about Divine Divinity

I think Harbinger might be currently an abandonware title. It is archived on archive org, but I haven't tried this copy myself.
Here's a gameplay video:

 

[sebas]

You're all high as a kite. Diablo invented the genre and Diablo 2 refined it. Divine Divinity, Sacred and Titan Quest - all aprgs which heaviliy focus the single-player aspect came out after D2 just fine. In fact even the original D2 was single player focused, it wasn't until the expansion introduced rune words and then 2 years later the ladder was added that D2 even meant anyting as a multiplayer game. And even then that was for a small minority of autists since you needed the teleport runeword to begin with.

Games like MU Online and PoE have turned arpgs into the loot pinatas that you know today, their main goal was farming.

 

[Odoryuk]

Diablo 2 is peak

DarkStone (maybe? At least it had a food system)

It can be as well non-existant, doesn't affect the game even if don't get to find Cornucopia to make the food situation affect the gameplay even less

 

[d1r]

You're all high as a kite. Diablo invented the genre and Diablo 2 refined it. Divine Divinity, Sacred and Titan Quest - all aprgs which heaviliy focus the single-player aspect came out after D2 just fine. In fact even the original D2 was single player focused, it wasn't until the expansion introduced rune words and then 2 years later the ladder was added that D2 even meant anyting as a multiplayer game. And even then that was for a small minority of autists since you needed the teleport runeword to begin with.

Games like MU Online and PoE have turned arpgs into the loot pinatas that you know today, their main goal was farming.

Mostly agree. But even PoE started out as a rather slow paced game, until completely dopamine addicted gamers complained about not being able to farm monsters fast enough.

 

[GaelicVigil]

You're all high as a kite. Diablo invented the genre and Diablo 2 refined it. Divine Divinity, Sacred and Titan Quest - all aprgs which heaviliy focus the single-player aspect came out after D2 just fine. In fact even the original D2 was single player focused, it wasn't until the expansion introduced rune words and then 2 years later the ladder was added that D2 even meant anyting as a multiplayer game. And even then that was for a small minority of autists since you needed the teleport runeword to begin with.

Games like MU Online and PoE have turned arpgs into the loot pinatas that you know today, their main goal was farming.

Sorry, you can't gaslight me. I was there. D2 was vastly faster, had bigger mob density, and far more loot-centered than D1. In D1, back in 96 I distinctly remember when my very first blue item dropped was a ring, five levels down. Plain old mundane items actually mattered in these older games. Getting something magical felt like a big achievement.

I'm not saying D2 is the worst offender compared to what's out there today, but it definitely got the ball rolling into this mess. You even admit it started the multiplayer ladder bs.

 

[d1r]

You're all high as a kite. Diablo invented the genre and Diablo 2 refined it. Divine Divinity, Sacred and Titan Quest - all aprgs which heaviliy focus the single-player aspect came out after D2 just fine. In fact even the original D2 was single player focused, it wasn't until the expansion introduced rune words and then 2 years later the ladder was added that D2 even meant anyting as a multiplayer game. And even then that was for a small minority of autists since you needed the teleport runeword to begin with.

Games like MU Online and PoE have turned arpgs into the loot pinatas that you know today, their main goal was farming.

Sorry, you can't gaslight me. I was there. D2 was vastly faster, had bigger mob density, and far more loot-centered than D1. In D1, back in 96 I distinctly remember when my very first blue item dropped was a ring, five levels down. Plain old mundane items actually mattered in these older games. Getting something magical felt like a big achievement.

I am not sure about the mob density though.

Diablo 1 was pretty high as well when it comes to that (even on Normal difficulty). Did you completely forget the book or fountain rooms? Or the last levels of Hell? Leoric's chamber? Chamber of Bone? The whole Caverns?

Also, what exactly were you doing in the first four levels? lol. Killing unique minions would have always earned you a magic or rare item. Besides that, magic items weren't that rare as you make it out to be, nor did it really feel like a grand achievement to find them because Griswold would have sold five more of them to you in the town anyway.

 

[NecroLord]

How did it go so wrong? These are not video games. These are slot machines.

I could list a dozen more like these. What is even the difference between these titles? What is even going on? It's all the same nonsense, maybe a slightly different skin color. Has this genre really innovated anything since Diablo 2? How anyone can enjoy this mind-numbing trash is beyond me.

I wouldn't exactly say that the game itself ruined it, but rather the Diablo "model" that influenced other games did.
Diablo 1 and its expansion Hellfire was where this franchise should've stopped.

 

[Anomander]

"Endgame" itself is cancer. I never understood its appeal. I finished the game, why should I still play it? And what's more - the same thing over and over again?
Maybe I can start again with another class, but why play "endgame". MMORPG broke this genre.

Why the games are created for endgame? If I finished it then I move to something else.

 

[Odoryuk]

D2 was vastly faster, had bigger mob density, and far more loot-centered than D1

That's why it is superior. But it was not and still not as flashy as the references you posted in the first post

 

[GaelicVigil]

D2 was vastly faster, had bigger mob density, and far more loot-centered than D1

That's why it is superior. But it was not and still not as flashy as the references you posted in the first post

To each his own. I've beat Diablo 1 maybe 20 times. It never gets old. I play through it at least once a year.

I've only beat D2 once at it was a horrible slog. Never again.

 

[jackofshadows]

Believe it or not, but there was a time before Diablo 2 destroyed the genre where an action RPG like this made you sweat and where tactics actually mattered a little bit, where you felt like you were actually questing inside a dungeon. For example, the early levels of Diablo 1 are pretty awesome, especially in multiplayer. Talking to each other and preparation is vital to survive. I wish more action RPGs played like this.

Have you actually played D3? It's all there, at least many patches later after release. What you've posted are extreme examples. Something similar may be achieved both in D2 and even in D1 (imagine playing fat wizard going into lvl1 normal).

Anyway, you're overthinking it. You want tactics - play tactical games or more traditional RPGs. You want to click buttons and see numbers go up - play diablo-likes, there's plenty of them. Don't forget numerous mods for D2 which change the game by a lot in different ways.

I fail to see some supposed tragedy here.

It's nice to kill some mobs with buddies on-line sometimes, although there're some new games for that like Sinthetik.

And if you're simply sad that there's no other game like D1 out there despite itself having successors - well, that was one of a kind game, what can you do.

 

[Necrensha]

You're comparing two different kinds of action games:
-A relatively slow descent into Hell, with an emphasis on the dark gothic atmosphere
-Power fantasies where you mow down entire armies of baddies
Just cause they have similar perspective, doesn't mean that they are same thing.

 

[Falksi]

I always viewed Diablo as just bad Gauntlet.

 

[S.torch]

Gacha destroyed Diablo-clones.

 

[luj1]

Prince of Qin
Throne of Darkness