Development Info Dragon Age: A Turn Based RPG?

[dunduks]

BG2 had very good combat. Tactical, lots of options, fun. I especially liked the mage battles. Very well done.

Hmmm, I think we played different games, becouse as with all RT ranged combat at most i was able to cast one spell before i got swarmed by melee enemies. The problem is/was the casters attack range, I mean there is no way in hell an archer or a mage would start combat if he is as close to enemy as say 10-15 meters, usually their attack range is 100-200 meters, but not so in the games, by that rendering archers class completely useless (higher level mages will survive becouse of firepower killing most enemies of before they get to you).

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

Does it really matter if its real time or turn based. Its still going to dissapoint, its going to be a high polished game that had potential but is completely hollow. You know a, BioWare game.....

 

[Rosh]

Hmmm, I think we played different games, becouse as with all RT ranged combat at most i was able to cast one spell before i got swarmed by melee enemies. The problem is/was the casters attack range, I mean there is no way in hell an archer or a mage would start combat if he is as close to enemy as say 10-15 meters, usually their attack range is 100-200 meters, but not so in the games, by that rendering archers class completely useless (higher level mages will survive becouse of firepower killing most enemies of before they get to you).

Bingo. Someone else noticed this pet peeve of mine. I especially loathed the style of "mapmaking" that led me to have flashbacks of Castle Darkmoor from Might and Magic 6.

 

[Transcendent One]

BG2 had very good combat. Tactical, lots of options, fun. I especially liked the mage battles. Very well done.

Hmmm, I think we played different games, becouse as with all RT ranged combat at most i was able to cast one spell before i got swarmed by melee enemies. The problem is/was the casters attack range, I mean there is no way in hell an archer or a mage would start combat if he is as close to enemy as say 10-15 meters, usually their attack range is 100-200 meters, but not so in the games, by that rendering archers class completely useless (higher level mages will survive becouse of firepower killing most enemies of before they get to you).

Well that's why one should put meleers in hte party. But even if not, it seems to me like you haven't fully explored the potential of defensive spells. Even at low levels a stoneskin+mirror image would keep you safe from melee damage for quite a long time, certainly enough to get some attack spells off. It just gets better when you get various triggers and contingencies cause they'll just fire off when battle starts and you don't have to worry about putting on defense spells anymore.

Archers do suck solo, but once again, you seem to forget that with a good support of meleers archers can get quite efficient. You did play with a party, right?

 

[Rosh]

Melee defense doesn't mean a damn thing when they make a beeline straight for those you're trying to protect, with the only thing offering defense is if you can physically choke off the pathway with the rest of your party. Otherwise, they will go easily around your "defense", easily within the 6 second "round".

Or, in the case of BioWare's AI, the mage walks up to the critters to point-blank them with a fireball. Ranges aren't the only fucked thing about it.

 

[dunduks]

Melee defense doesn't mean a damn thing when they make a beeline straight for those you're trying to protect, with the only thing offering defense is if you can physically choke off the pathway with the rest of your party. Otherwise, they will go easily around your "defense", easily within the 6 second "round".

Or, in the case of BioWare's AI, the mage walks up to the critters to point-blank them with a fireball. Ranges aren't the only fucked thing about it.

Exactly!
Also take in consideration the interupts, even if you manage to cast the fireball, then stoneskin, good luck either running away or cast any other spell without getting interupted. What I also dislike is that the combat/memorized spell ratio is messed up, but that is DnD shortcoming.
As for archers its even worse, if a mage can have a little defence, archers are like the redheaded stepchildren that are always getting beaten up.

 

[Volourn]

LOL Neitherr of you know how to play mages and archers then. My mages and archers were very rarely in melee and enemies rarely got to them. You suck.

 

[Country_Gravy]

WOW! Volourn is a tactical genius!

 

[Anonymous]

That's funny, because you're saying out right that Real-Time is shit, Volourn.

 

[Volourn]

Huh? Where you get that idea? (to both of you)

I'm no genius not did I say the balony that Llama is trying to suggest.

 

[Transcendent One]

Also take in consideration the interupts, even if you manage to cast the fireball, then stoneskin, good luck either running away or cast any other spell without getting interupted

If you cast stoneskin, you won't get interuppted, unless the opponent uses weapons with elemental damage or something similar. If you cast mantle I don't think even that can affect you.

Rosh: yeah that sucks, I agree, but it doesn't happen that often if you keep them at a decent distance away. Oh and the fireball thing never happened to me, I don't know what was wrong with your game. Speaking of shitty AI, for a nice display of that summon a planetar in ToB and try to get it to do something

Volourn: fascinating

 

[Jed]

If you cast stoneskin, you won't get interuppted, unless the opponent uses weapons with elemental damage or something similar. If you cast mantle I don't think even that can affect you.

Don't you mean cast "Rockshell" and "Cloak"? We are talking about Dragon Age here after all.

 

[Anonymous]

Huh? Where you get that idea? (to both of you)

I'm no genius not did I say the balony that Llama is trying to suggest.

Because you're saying that they rely too much on player's skill instead of character's.

 

[Volourn]

No more than FO. If the player is too stupid to use his characters' skills rights; they are gonna die. Like not using the terrain to your advantage, not using the melee types/summoned creatures as "walls" to block progress to your mages/archers. If you don't do that; then perhaps games where you need to be intelligentsomewhat (FO and BG) then you deserve to have your wizard run into melee to cast fireball (which amazingly enough NEVER happened to me) and don't coem crying about it.

If you actually beleive that turn based combat is 100% relied on character stats and skills than you aren't smart as I thought you are.

 

[Jed]

Hmmm... that's funny, the computer-AI controlled NPCs in the NWN trilogy are fairly infamous for moving to melee range to cast spells. Are you saying they don't do that on your computer? Is this the same computer that won't even run ToEE, yet renders all BioWare games completely free of bugs? I think your computer is TEH BIASED!

 

[Volourn]

LOL When did I say seriously that BIO's games are bugfree? Can you say X is a liar? I know, you should be able to as that's what you are doing - lying. If you are gonna flat out lie perhaps you shoudl rethink what you post to at least make your lies believable.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I'm fairly sure that the AI in NWN forces your casters to throw fairly powerful spells at monsters that are about to die and also tries to use spells like poison on the undead. They also get stuck behind corridor walls (at corners) and dont attack anything because they can't see the enemy even though you're getting squashed. This is especially true with the ranged/magical characters. It's not apparent with the Melee ones.

If you've never experienced these issues with NWN before, Volourn, and claim to have used Archers and Mages, I would dare call you a liar.

 

[Volourn]

Funny, but why are you and X discussing NWN when the conversation about AI and being forced to dos tuff was about BG series? Hmm..

And, as far NWN npc AI; I've commented on it ebfore. I have my share of criticisms on it. I'm not gonna repeated for fools who think they know what theya re tlaking about when they actually don't.

But, hey, keep up the good word with your nonsenical amusings of 'Will DA be turn base?" when BIo has already explicitly stated what the combat would be like. Entertainment is a good pasttime, and RPGCodex gives me a lot fo that.

 

[Jed]

Don't know what I'm talking about? Like when I picked Sharwyn to back up my fighter expecting her to hang back, use a bow, cast spells, and/or sing some bard songs, but without fail I would have to rush to catch up with her to kill all the monsters surrounding her and firing off AoOs while she cast spells and used her bow at melee range. Yeah, I must not know what I'm talking about. Fuck you, Volourn.

 

[taks]

i found volourn's references to the BG series pretty clear... nowhere was NWN mentioned... as a matter of fact, the initial discussion was based on transcendant one's comment regarding BG2... AI in NWN is a completely different beast than controlling each of your critters in BG games individually (i only allow AI for the melee characters).

taks

 

[Spazmo]

bla bla bla

Dragon Age will still have shitty combat.

Fuck you, Volourn.

Huzzah!

 

[Jed]

i found volourn's references to the BG series pretty clear... nowhere was NWN mentioned... as a matter of fact, the initial discussion was based on transcendant one's comment regarding BG2... AI in NWN is a completely different beast than controlling each of your critters in BG games individually (i only allow AI for the melee characters).

Being that we're talking about Dragon Age, and that it has been stated that BioWare is using NWN as much of the basis--spiritual at least, if not in fact literal which I suspect there will be a lot of recycled resources as already seen in KotOR--thus NWN and KotOR should be the germane point of reference for the Dragon Age combat model.

What's the problem?

 

[taks]

no, irrelevant... volourn's comments were in direct reply to somebody complaining about BG2 AI and tactics. perhaps NWN and KotOR examples are more pertinent to the ongoing discussion, but that doesn't change the fact that volourn was referring to a specific item mentioned above. you've inserted a strawman argument to refute volourn's comments on an almost unrelated topic...

taks

 

[Rosh]

No more than FO. If the player is too stupid to use his characters' skills rights; they are gonna die. Like not using the terrain to your advantage, not using the melee types/summoned creatures as "walls" to block progress to your mages/archers. If you don't do that; then perhaps games where you need to be intelligentsomewhat (FO and BG) then you deserve to have your wizard run into melee to cast fireball (which amazingly enough NEVER happened to me) and don't coem crying about it.

Too bad you're too busy arguing in defense of the "methods" when you've basically said the same thing as I did. You need to physically block off what is measured only by the character's physical presence, which suits most of BioWare's games since they don't bother with the rules they're raping anyways.

There was nothing representative in the game that would prevent one of the half-dozen gnolls from getting up close to a wimpy mage, or for that matter, enemy archers. Mages tend to try and stay out of their range and cast spells back, but most of the encounters with them start with a hail of arrows in your direction, often in your mage's.

Then let's not forget the bandit encounters in BG1, many of the mage encounters in BG2 (in which, those protective spells mentioned before don't mean a damn thing), and then the problems BioWare encountered when they decided to add a third dimension to their already struggling AI and pathfinding system.

taks, learn context, moron. That was in no way a straw man, maybe if you really stretched for it. It is in context of BioWare's poor ability to code and script their combat screensavers.

 

[Volourn]

*yawn* poor Ross makes a fool of himself. I never said NWN's AI was perfect. Then again, we were discussing BG series combat 9most specifically BG2) and then people try to change subjects. Talk about lame.

That said, you still suck. I had absolutely no problem keeping my mages and archers out of melee except in rare circumsatnces. But, hey, if you want to bring up the red herring of NWN when you want to cover your crappiness in playuing BG2; that's your problem not mine.


X: Sure. You bring the booze. I'll bring the panties.

P.S. Sharywn NEVER rushed ahead of me when I equipped her with a bow. Not once. Please try again. Perhaps you should actually use the AI commands thatw ere available even in original NWN.

Geez... And, I thought RPGCodex was where the ahrdcore gamers were. I was wrong. Just a bunch of people who don't know how to use the tools in front of them. Pathetic.

Enjoy. Have fun. Bless you all.


P.S.S. Taks, don't worry. It's all good fun when they runa round with their heads' chopped off.