Game News Dragon Age Given A Date

[Arcanoix]

Due to ecnomic circumstances, PC gamers could have been playing at this very moment BioWare's latest epic failure of a role-playing game - Dragon Age: Origins. However, the game was shaping up to be so epic in retardation, big tits, and interactive blood and sex scenes that Dragon Age would be better served if the PC launch coincided with the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 debuts later in the year.

Fix'd

 

[Morbus]

Because general or not general I can't see how is it good today and not worse.

If you some random game from today side by side with some random game from 15 years ago, chances are it will be better from a design standpoint. Again, maybe not in RPGs.

Bad design is a very subjective concept. It means different things to different people. For example, some people think that good design is epic storytelling. Some people think that good design is non-linearity and meaningful choices, which is pretty much the opposite of epic (read as linear) storytelling where you move from point A to point B to watch increasingly epic cutscenes.

Point taken. Design is subjective. Can't be objectively evaluated.

Then again... "every game is good".

For everyone who loved Oblivion, the game wasn't poorly designed and that's my point.

No, Oblivion wasn't designed at all. It's just a rip off of stuff from here and there.

I must confess that I have no idea what general game design means and how it's different from non-general game design.

My point was that design, generally speaking, is better today. MAYBE not in RPGs, but yes, also in RPGs, in many of them.

And with this, we lost the whole point of the thing: people don't understand what can actually be done, and are easily satisfied because of that.

Knowing whether a game is good or bad is NOT the same as liking a game or not.

Right, like is directly subjective, while good/bad is indirectly subjective. Good/Bad is based on some set of criteria to allow for objective analysis, but the criteria themselves are completely subjective and can change rapidly.

So if you're tired of people saying "that's just your opinion", take a few minutes to codify what is important to you in video games. Then in the future, you can say "blah is an objectively bad game because ...." and be the smug internet prick you always wanted to be!

what

What a fucking douchebag.

Ah, ok.

 

[obediah]

Knowing whether a game is good or bad is NOT the same as liking a game or not.

Right, like is directly subjective, while good/bad is indirectly subjective. Good/Bad is based on some set of criteria to allow for objective analysis, but the criteria themselves are completely subjective and can change rapidly.

So if you're tired of people saying "that's just your opinion", take a few minutes to codify what is important to you in video games. Then in the future, you can say "blah is an objectively bad game because ...." and be the smug internet prick you always wanted to be!

what

Ah, good point! Thinking will give your wrinkles. I'll try to break it down.

Some people approach a topic for entertainment. For them like = good and hate = bad. Some others decide to build their ego and reputation on that same topic, so they put on funny hats and get educated so they can be critical and analytical. These special people can dislike a good thing, and even like a bad thing.

Unfortunately, most of these people are hacks. Their criteria for judging good and bad are a sham. No more enlightened or enduring than what the average joe uses to decide if he likes something. I think you are such a hack. That you come in the thread jerking all the codexers off and expecting the same in return was a pretty big clue.

But do try to prove me wrong. Explain this mysterious "game design" that allows you to judge games as good or bad! Give us an example. Use your powers to tell us if AoD will be good or bad, and the criteria you used to arrive at the decision.

What a fucking douchebag.

Ah, ok.

I'm sowry, did I hurt your feelings by violating gamespot's third rule of forum posting? Come back when you get some hair down there. When you do, we'll still be here to explain that despite your delusions to the contrary, games can and should be judged purely on the experience of playing them.

 

[Morbus]

what

Ah, good point! Thinking will give your wrinkles. I'll try to break it down.

Some people approach a topic for entertainment. For them like = good and hate = bad. Some others decide to build their ego and reputation on that same topic, so they put on funny hats and get educated so they can be critical and analytical. These special people can dislike a good thing, and even like a bad thing.

Unfortunately, most of these people are hacks. Their criteria for judging good and bad are a sham. No more enlightened or enduring than what the average joe uses to decide if he likes something. I think you are such a hack. That you come in the thread jerking all the codexers off and expecting the same in return was a pretty big clue.

But do try to prove me wrong. Explain this mysterious "game design" that allows you to judge games as good or bad! Give us an example. Use your powers to tell us if AoD will be good or bad, and the criteria you used to arrive at the decision.

yes

I'm sowry, did I hurt your feelings by violating gamespot's third rule of forum posting?

Ah yes indeed, I'll go back to gamespot now.

 

[Shannow]

Didn't they bring the whole "it is so awesome it'll be delayed and multi-platform" when they announced that it'll be delayed and multi-platform?
Always sounded like "We have a longish game with 40 hours of gameplay. Let's make it a trilogy!" to me.

Morbus, grow some brain cells, grow up or do something - anything - else that'll stop you being such a douche. If all else fails just stop posting. If you can't follow obediah's very simple arguments, you might re-assess your mental abilities.

So you can't bash the information you see on game sites because you haven't played the game yet, but when you actually play it then it's retarded to bash it because you played it.

+1

 

[Jaesun]

The one good thing is that DA WAS originally designed to be on a PC, so the PC game and controls should be fairly good.

I still cannot summon any interest in this game. Maybe it will be a good bargain bin buy.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

If the game is so god damn good, why do they have to remind us constantly that it is? Shouldn't the end product speak for itself?

Not really. Quality games often get sales-raped by shit games because the shit games got hyped to hell and back. Most people will be enticed by the hype, they won't go to forums (at least, not the ones that allow you to say bad things about the game).

Same thing if you have a store irl. Your goods might be better than the ones for sale at the other store across the street, but if the owner keeps yelling about how his goods are better most people will go there. So even if you have a quality product, you must make sure people listen.

 

[obediah]

:

 

[NOVD]

EA expects Dragon age to sell 2.1 million copies. At least, the company believes its own hype.

 

[Morbus]

Morbus, grow some brain cells, grow up or do something - anything - else that'll stop you being such a douche. If all else fails just stop posting. If you can't follow obediah's very simple arguments, you might re-assess your mental abilities.

I didn't even read them How could I follow them?

I mean, those to which I replied with "what", I did. Not the rest.

Also, what do you think? You think being insulted by a random codex poster means anything? Lol. Are those insults meant to scare me or something?

:

Of what? My household? It must be I haven't been part of any group long enough for my state of mind to represent any sort of change in it...

 

[Rohit_N]

There was a new trailer at the EA press conference for DA. Nothing new. Marilyn Manson again.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Doesn't seem to be the case. Trailers don't show too much gameplay, but they do show that the speed is much, much higher than in Devil May Cry, approaching Ninja Gaiden levels. If Bayonetta keeps DMC's combo system that allows you to chain any attacks in any way you like, it has good chances to become one of the best action games ever made.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but my natural angry cunt senses have me worried about a few main things.

-The hair attacks may play too big a role. And seeing as the are essentially beyond DMC ridiculous and probably instant kills, that would really kill the challenge factor and make it too much about cinematics, a la God of Bore. All of them seem like this so far, from the giant stiletto heel kick, the guillotine summon, or the demon dragon that ate a freaking boss monster. Or they could just be glorified QTE fatalities, again like God of Bore.

-Will enemies actually be a serious threat? That's what makes Ninja Gaiden and God Hand a cut above the rest. Enemies have large arsenals, tenacious AI, and even the lowliest of enemies can kill you. They're brutal and ruthless. They force you to use the fullest extent of the combat system to get by. As much as I love DMC3, it probably wouldn't be too hard to get by with some bread and butter techniques on Dante Must Die. The only time the game really challenges you to get better is if you want to play for score (which can be....eh) or just enjoy free-forming.

-Will Platinum take the wrong message from how their games over at Clover did? Their best selling and best "critically" received game was Okami, which was mostly about the visuals and was easier than a Zelda game, which says a lot. Their worst performer was God Hand, which eschewed visuals for old-school gameplay that kicked most player's asses. Consequently, it sold poorly, and was slammed by "critics". They are first and foremost a business, and while I'm sure artistic integrity is cool and all, making money comes first and I'm sure they don't want to have to fold again and form...I don't know...Electrum Studios?

-I heard mixed things about MadWorld, their other title. The mainstream loves it for it's visuals, atmosphere, humor, and ease of playability...but the hardcore aren't as pleased and say it's very shallow and lacks any real depth. Is this a sign of things to come? I hope not.

-Still not keen on the oversexualization of the protagonist. Not sure whether it's Rachel, Nightshade, and DMC2 or the fact that I really would not want to be caught playing it.

A year and a half of development time is more than enough to port a game and throw in some extra features. Two new playable characters may seem like a big addition at first, but I doubt they'll have more than one weapon each, so properly balancing them shouldn't take too long. Team Ninja has enough time, whether they'll make use of it and deliver a high quality product remains to be seen.

Yeah...I'm sorry this is happening, because this does sort of endanger the future of the Ninja Gaiden franchise, but Hayashi has no fucking clue what he's doing, and I think I'm about to watch another franchise I liked go south.

He brought Rachel back as a main, playable character. And Ryu has a gun now.

Shark status: Likely jumped. I want it to be good, but Hayashi isn't focusing on the important things, and only going for gimmicks....like last time he was in charge. Didn't really like the look of the Ayane gameplay either. She's fast and maneuverable, but the enemies seemed slower, less aggressive, and fewer in number. Plus, her moves looked flashy, but it didn't really seem like she brings anything unique to the table besides unlimited incendiary shuriken (which is broken when combined with OTs) and a manual aim feature that would get you killed in Ninja Gaiden 2.....unless they dumbed down the AI.

Other than that, I don't think a year and a half is enough to really deliver a quality experience with all the new crap they are cramming in. Especially seeing as Itagaki took most of the key players of Team Ninja with him (AI programmer, lead animator, lead designer, lead engineer etc.) after Tecmo screwed them (Team Ninja) over. I want it to be good, but I think it's in poor hands.

 

[Rhalle]

EA expects Dragon age to sell 2.1 million copies. At least, the company believes its own hype.

Will never happen, even with teh new shit aimed at consoletards. Do they really think DA will double ME2's sales? If so, then they've really got their heads in their asses.

It appears to me they've whipped themselves into a whole 'this will be a new, hot franchise'; but wishing won't make it so. Mostly the hardcore, who will be disappointed, will come. The kiddies will stay away, and those that don't will probably think it sucks.

It really makes me want to hope DA fails miserably and the tardboxers savage it; but the outcome of that would be future games even more tardboxed so as to guarantee sales.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

I'm cautiously optimistic, but my natural angry cunt senses have me worried about a few main things.

Wouldn't be the Codex without it.

-The hair attacks may play too big a role. And seeing as the are essentially beyond DMC ridiculous and probably instant kills, that would really kill the challenge factor and make it too much about cinematics, a la God of Bore. All of them seem like this so far, from the giant stiletto heel kick, the guillotine summon, or the demon dragon that ate a freaking boss monster. Or they could just be glorified QTE fatalities, again like God of Bore.

There are ways to keep them in check, like severely limiting mana supplies or making them usable only on already significantly weakend enemies. I'm certain that instakilling bosses won't be possible, nobody can design something this stupid. Although after seeing some stuff you can do in DMC4 I'm less certain than I could be. Hopefully Kamiya still retains his sanity.

-Will enemies actually be a serious threat? That's what makes Ninja Gaiden and God Hand a cut above the rest. Enemies have large arsenals, tenacious AI, and even the lowliest of enemies can kill you. They're brutal and ruthless. They force you to use the fullest extent of the combat system to get by. As much as I love DMC3, it probably wouldn't be too hard to get by with some bread and butter techniques on Dante Must Die. The only time the game really challenges you to get better is if you want to play for score (which can be....eh) or just enjoy free-forming.

That's what I'd like to know, but there is no answer yet. We'll have to wait for more detailed gameplay videos.

-Will Platinum take the wrong message from how their games over at Clover did? Their best selling and best "critically" received game was Okami, which was mostly about the visuals and was easier than a Zelda game, which says a lot. Their worst performer was God Hand, which eschewed visuals for old-school gameplay that kicked most player's asses. Consequently, it sold poorly, and was slammed by "critics". They are first and foremost a business, and while I'm sure artistic integrity is cool and all, making money comes first and I'm sure they don't want to have to fold again and form...I don't know...Electrum Studios?

-I heard mixed things about MadWorld, their other title. The mainstream loves it for it's visuals, atmosphere, humor, and ease of playability...but the hardcore aren't as pleased and say it's very shallow and lacks any real depth. Is this a sign of things to come? I hope not.

Although MadWorld shared a lot of team with God Hand, it had a different lead designer. Mikami's project is still unannounced.

-Still not keen on the oversexualization of the protagonist. Not sure whether it's Rachel, Nightshade, and DMC2 or the fact that I really would not want to be caught playing it.

That slightly bothers me as well, but knowing Kamiya oversexualization will probably be played for teh lulz. I mean, Dante's portrayal as a muscled, macho one-liner generator is no less sexist, and nobody minded that.

Things about Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2

I'll post a reply to this in the other thread.

 

[Dark_Paladin_Anti_Hero]

EA expects Dragon age to sell 2.1 million copies. At least, the company believes its own hype.

Will never happen, even with teh new shit aimed at consoletards. Do they really think DA will double ME2's sales? If so, then they've really got their heads in their asses.

It appears to me they've whipped themselves into a whole 'this will be a new, hot franchise'; but wishing won't make it so. Mostly the hardcore, who will be disappointed, will come. The kiddies will stay away, and those that don't will probably think it sucks.

It really makes me want to hope DA fails miserably and the tardboxers savage it; but the outcome of that would be future games even more tardboxed so as to guarantee sales.

I think Bioware does not really know who their target audience is. They've been creating games that are focused on the mainstream for so long it has diluted their vision. I do believe they are genuinely trying to get back to their roots now, hence the whole marketing campaign that claims this is a spiritual sequel to Baldur's Gate. The only way the console crowd would remember that name is from the Dark Alliance series. They can't release the game early for the PC because of obvious piracy, which would seriously cut into console sales if it turns out the game is actually a good RPG (ex. console player downloads the game to check it out months before release on his preferred platform, sees that it's challenging and full of reading and hard decisions, then decides not to buy it later on), but of course the truth in that is highly optimistic... however it could be what they're thinking.

I do not understand why they're claiming too much quality as a reason for delay, though. That's puzzling. Usually delays bring about claims of holding off to increase quality and add polish.

 

[Dionysus]

I think Bioware does not really know who their target audience is. They've been creating games that are focused on the mainstream for so long it has diluted their vision. I do believe they are genuinely trying to get back to their roots now, hence the whole marketing campaign that claims this is a spiritual sequel to Baldur's Gate. The only way the console crowd would remember that name is from the Dark Alliance series.

You would be surprised. Classic PC games attract some buzz from console gamers, if only because they get preferential treatment from the media. Even people that never played BG have seen it on various top-10 lists, and know it as a classic game. It's the same reason that Irrational talked about Bioshock as a spiritual successor to a game that never sold very well, and one of the reasons that Bethesda bought Fallout. There's a retro-chic appeal, and some of the brands seem to have actually accrued value with time.

They can't release the game early for the PC because of obvious piracy, which would seriously cut into console sales if it turns out the game is actually a good RPG (ex. console player downloads the game to check it out months before release on his preferred platform, sees that it's challenging and full of reading and hard decisions, then decides not to buy it later on), but of course the truth in that is highly optimistic... however it could be what they're thinking.

I do not understand why they're claiming too much quality as a reason for delay, though. That's puzzling. Usually delays bring about claims of holding off to increase quality and add polish.

It has less to do with piracy and more to do with marketing. They don't want to pay for two ad blitzes. And even if they did pay for two ad campaigns, there's some hype that you just can't recreate after a game has already been released on one platform. Simultaneous launches are generally good if possible and practical.

 

[Dark_Paladin_Anti_Hero]

I think Bioware does not really know who their target audience is. They've been creating games that are focused on the mainstream for so long it has diluted their vision. I do believe they are genuinely trying to get back to their roots now, hence the whole marketing campaign that claims this is a spiritual sequel to Baldur's Gate. The only way the console crowd would remember that name is from the Dark Alliance series.

You would be surprised. Classic PC games attract some buzz from console gamers, if only because they get preferential treatment from the media. Even people that never played BG have seen it on various top-10 lists, and know it as a classic game. It's the same reason that Irrational talked about Bioshock as a spiritual successor to a game that never sold very well, and one of the reasons that Bethesda bought Fallout. There's a retro-chic appeal, and some of the brands seem to have actually accrued value with time.

That is true, but other factors come more into play, and the retro franchise just adds a bit. Bethesda had two monster hits - Morrowind and Oblivion - before Fallout 3. Bioshock is a shooter, and sold really well on the [Xbox] shooter platform. Even bottom barrel shooters can sell well on consoles. You can check out all the sales on vgchartz.com, just so you don't think I'm making crap up. While nostalgia might be important to the PC crowd, it is considerably less so with the vastly larger crowd that owns consoles.

They can't release the game early for the PC because of obvious piracy, which would seriously cut into console sales if it turns out the game is actually a good RPG (ex. console player downloads the game to check it out months before release on his preferred platform, sees that it's challenging and full of reading and hard decisions, then decides not to buy it later on), but of course the truth in that is highly optimistic... however it could be what they're thinking.

I do not understand why they're claiming too much quality as a reason for delay, though. That's puzzling. Usually delays bring about claims of holding off to increase quality and add polish.

It has less to do with piracy and more to do with marketing. They don't want to pay for two ad blitzes. And even if they did pay for two ad campaigns, there's some hype that you just can't recreate after a game has already been released on one platform. Simultaneous launches are generally good if possible and practical.

I didn't think about the marketing. It's probably safe to assume that there is a mix of reasons for it. It still doesn't make any sense why too much quality would be the culprit.

 

[Dionysus]

That is true, but other factors come more into play, and the retro franchise just adds a bit. Bethesda had two monster hits - Morrowind and Oblivion - before Fallout 3. Bioshock is a shooter, and sold really well on the [Xbox] shooter platform. Even bottom barrel shooters can sell well on consoles. You can check out all the sales on vgchartz.com, just so you don't think I'm making crap up. While nostalgia might be important to the PC crowd, it is considerably less so with the vastly larger crowd that owns consoles.

I don't think so. Console gamers go just as crazy for remakes and rehashes as PC gamers. That's why Nintendo only makes a new IP once in a blue moon. The only question is whether there is cross-over. I suggest that there is because much of the media is aware of the classic PC games, and many console gamers play PC games (or at least played PC games before they got old and had kids).

And I don't think it's fair to count Bioshock as just another shooter on the 360. It received a ton of media attention and GotY awards. I think its pedigree played a role in that.

I didn't think about the marketing. It's probably safe to assume that there is a mix of reasons for it. It still doesn't make any sense why too much quality would be the culprit.

The funny thing is that Riccitiello already told us the real reason when he announced the delay. The only sense I can make of the "quality" statement is that he is suggesting that he doesn't want the quality to go to waste because of poor marketing.

 

[Dark_Paladin_Anti_Hero]

That is true, but other factors come more into play, and the retro franchise just adds a bit. Bethesda had two monster hits - Morrowind and Oblivion - before Fallout 3. Bioshock is a shooter, and sold really well on the [Xbox] shooter platform. Even bottom barrel shooters can sell well on consoles. You can check out all the sales on vgchartz.com, just so you don't think I'm making crap up. While nostalgia might be important to the PC crowd, it is considerably less so with the vastly larger crowd that owns consoles.

I don't think so. Console gamers go just as crazy for remakes and rehashes as PC gamers. That's why Nintendo only makes a new IP once in a blue moon. The only question is whether there is cross-over. I suggest that there is because much of the media is aware of the classic PC games, and many console gamers play PC games (or at least played PC games before they got old and had kids).

And I don't think it's fair to count Bioshock as just another shooter on the 360. It received a ton of media attention and GotY awards. I think its pedigree played a role in that.

The cross-over is the main point, and I would bet money that there are more console player who are adolescents than there are adults.

Bioshock is a shooter with style. I didn't mean to call it just another shooter, only that it is a shooter and they generally do well in the Xbox's market.

I didn't think about the marketing. It's probably safe to assume that there is a mix of reasons for it. It still doesn't make any sense why too much quality would be the culprit.

The funny thing is that Riccitiello already told us the real reason when he announced the delay. The only sense I can make of the "quality" statement is that he is suggesting that he doesn't want the quality to go to waste because of poor marketing.

What article was that? I only saw the "quality" one.

 

[Rhalle]

They were doing a retro-RPG.

But since the EA acquisition and the addendum of the "Origins"-post-colon instant franchisification, they have been working on a console title.

What was the "'Spiritual Successor to Baldur's Gate" is now an "Epic Tale of Violence, Lust, and Betrayal". If you don't believe me, go check out their new main page.

 

[Volourn]

"Will never happen, even with teh new shit aimed at consoletards. Do they really think DA will double ME2's sales? If so, then they've really got their heads in their asses."

Eh. Outside of BIO's non RPGs and JE, all of BIo's games have sold 2 mil+. I'm surprised they expect only 1.2 mil copies for ME2, though.

Definitely possibly DA will sell 2 mil copies; but you never know.

Are these expecattions for just one platform type or all platforms? That cna make a difference, too.

 

[Dark_Paladin_Anti_Hero]

ME2's 1.1 mil sounds like the projection for just the PS3. All the numbers are off (from NOVD's link). It sounds like they were thrown together by someone in five minutes who has never looked at any charts, or has ever read anything about the industry. Only 1.5 mil for the Sims and 0.4 mil for Brutal Legend along with the low number for ME2. Then they have Army of Two at 1.3 mil. Excuse me while I compose myself. They expect Army of Two to do as well as the Sims, and Dragon Age to pass it tremendously, despite both being released at a much later time and NOT BEING THE SIMS. It probably wouldn't be too far fetched to believe the entire article was made up by the editors based on misinterpreted hearsay, as seems to happen often in this industry.

 

[Dionysus]

What article was that? I only saw the "quality" one.

He said it during the earnings call in which he first announced the delay. Then Bioware was left doing DC, so it doesn't surprise me that Riccitiello is being less than straightforward now. It was pretty funny.