Interview Dungeon Siege III Does Not Have A Respec System

[Johannes]

Having a game designed around allowing you to reallocate could be fun though. So that you'd need to constantly redesign your party specifically to fit the different dungeons, like you already might need to switch party members, equipment or spell memorization and such.
Though from a realism/storyfag pov respeccing attribute/skill points sounds pretty weird, so maybe it'd be just better to remove those and focus on making those equipment etc. switchable stuffies more variable. But I guess it's not that much of an rpg anymore then...


A lot of the point with the usual RPG format though is figuring how to deal with different situations with the same PC/same party. Even if it is a badly configured one, deal with it or restart, bitch.
And the player should be expected to have some competence in making his build too, if his picks don't have any synergy at all it's his fault.
Of course I expect devs to make a good game, if, say in D&D you happen to make all of the most powerful weapons axes - how is the player supposed to know at game start that he should specialise everyone in that? A better way to fix this would be though, imo, to not make specialised skills for every weapon classes that have similar game mechanics than just include magic weapons of all types equally.

 

[Topher]

I do feel like it works best in games like titan quest and I certainly can't see the need for it in any game like Baldur's Gate or even Icewind Dale.

 

[tehRPness]

The whole point is that you can't respec. Respec is for dumbasses who don't know how to spec in the first place.

How do you know how to spec?

Unless you are playing a CRPG licensed from a pen and paper product you probably don't have comprehensive documentation of the mechanics available from the in game help and the manual.

Most of the time with non licensed systems the mechanics are quite obscure, so you don't know many of the formulas that determine your performance.

This makes it extremely difficult if not impossible to make an informed decision on how to build your character to maximize his effectiveness, unless you resort to reading the forums or the FAQs for spoilers, especially as the skill descriptions rarely provide mechanics or objective analysis, but rather tend to read like marketing blurbs for each skill.

So in an unspoilered playthrough you are simply picking based on the skill descriptions and what kind of character think is cool. Which is fine if all the skills are within a reasonable level of effectiveness.

But because creating a balanced RPG system out of nowhere is extremely difficult there are usually multiple specs which sound like they'd be fun to play, but are actually awful. It's pretty much an iron law of non licensed RPGs.

Respecing is your insurance against getting stuck with a terrible character because the Devs failed (and they almost always fail if they didn't license their system).

If you don't have the ability to respec, then either

a) your character's power comes down to luck of the draw, as in which abilities the Devs coded to be powerful and which abilities the Devs coded to be junk.

b) You read through a bunch of spoilers prior to designing your build, possibly reducing your enjoyment of the game.

You learn it the hard way by rerolling. There's nothing wrong with 'luck of the draw'. If you feel you need to google it, odds are you're not a roleplayer.

 

[sysdefect]

Lol sounds like we've got a whole bunch of internet tough guys here. I do not understand why the option to respec is so appalling to the posters, it is only a feature that allows players to have more control over how they enjoy the game, like that fucking matters I guess. As someone has said not too many posts earlier, it helps compensate for bad skills and not necessarily even bad skills so much as skills that you find upon use and actual experience, not the brief description in a manual, are not exactly what you would like your character to have. Period. And while of course devs should have some sort of foresight for this, or proper talent, or whatever you want to criticize, how can you honestly be offended by a failsafe? Especially in an action rpg that relies on the combat quirks of each class for much of its enjoyment! But maybe we should just frustrate everyone all the time across the board.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Lol sounds like we've got a whole bunch of internet tough guys here. I do not understand why the option to respec is so appalling to the posters, it is only a feature that allows players to have more control over how they enjoy the game, like that fucking matters I guess. As someone has said not too many posts earlier, it helps compensate for bad skills and not necessarily even bad skills so much as skills that you find upon use and actual experience, not the brief description in a manual, are not exactly what you would like your character to have. Period. And while of course devs should have some sort of foresight for this, or proper talent, or whatever you want to criticize, how can you honestly be offended by a failsafe? Especially in an action rpg that relies on the combat quirks of each class for much of its enjoyment! But maybe we should just frustrate everyone all the time across the board.

0/10

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Part of the experience of playing a roleplaying game is discovering that you chose the wrong skills for totally owning the first few bits and then restarting. It is a solemn and unbroken tradition.

 

[Xor]

0/10

I don't know, that paragraph had a few good chuckles in it before I stopped reading. Utterly unbelievable though.

 

[J_C]

Respecing is your insurance against getting stuck with a terrible character because the Devs failed (and they almost always fail if they didn't license their system).

If you get stuck in the game because of a bad character means two things:
1) the game design is screwed up big time. A decent hack 'n slash game can be beaten with most characters on normal difficulty, if you at least try to spec them reasonably. You don't have to make the perfect decision when you choose skills.
2) the player is so dumb, that s/he manages to make the worst speced character possible. This player needs a shot in the head, and not a respec option.

 

[Naked Ninja]

You guys are such whiners. Respeccing in an action RPG is fine. If I had time enough to hack my way through 8 gajillion monsters and experience a paper-thin plot twice just to try another character build I'd be...back in varsity.

For a real RPG : no respec. For an action RPG : respec fine. Everyone eventually just used that external app in D3 to change their characters anyway.

 

[mondblut]

Blame WoW. I don't remember respecing being anywhere in single player games before WoW made it popular.

Beyond Divinity had it.

And now every dumbfuck wants respec in a single player game. I remember when DAO came out, everyone started bitching, that you can't respec the NPCs immediately.

Can't blame them, who the fuck wants to be stuck with the suboptimal crap the storyfaggotry forces down your throat into your party?

No popamole respec AND fully customizable player-created party, that's the way it's supposed to run.

 

[J_C]

fully customizable player-created party, that's the way it's supposed to run.

But then you can't romance and fuck the other characters. It ruins DA IMMERSION!

 

[Angthoron]

But what if the player isn't emotionally or mentally prepared to face the tyranny of the stats?

 

[Mangoose]

The whole point is that you can't respec. Respec is for dumbasses who don't know how to spec in the first place.

How do you know how to spec?

Unless you are playing a CRPG licensed from a pen and paper product you probably don't have comprehensive documentation of the mechanics available from the in game help and the manual.

Most of the time with non licensed systems the mechanics are quite obscure, so you don't know many of the formulas that determine your performance.

Besides the fact that usually such games have skill descriptions easily seen in the skill tree, you can also use:

1. Your intuition. Because unless the game is really REALLY different like The Void, it's probably designed similarly to other games in its genre.
2. Smart planning with contingencies; in other words, if your first plan doesn't work, experiment and use your observations to come up with a better plan for developing your skills.

Like others have said, no games REQUIRE you to min-max (quite the opposite these days, of course), so you have the freedom and time to experiment and analyze. No, it's not trial and error if you're not retarded, because your understanding of the game system and its mechanics should increase while you play and thus you can make more "intuitive" choices even without concrete knowledge.

Also unless a game is really unpopular, there are spoiler-free FAQs for skill descriptions, character creation, and such.

 

[made]

Code Righteous Rage at its best. MMO features in my offline MMOs? Decline!

 

[Xor]

I don't have a problem with respec in most hack&slash games. Their system are usually imbalanced as fuck and it's difficult to see what abilities are worthless until you've played for a while. In other cases, like Diablo 2, respeccing opens up new leveling options because you don't have to have your final skill build in mind from level 1.

 

[Esquilax]

I don't have a problem with respec in most hack&slash games. Their system are usually imbalanced as fuck and it's difficult to see what abilities are worthless until you've played for a while. In other cases, like Diablo 2, respeccing opens up new leveling options because you don't have to have your final skill build in mind from level 1.

This is reasonable. I am just against having it as a common thing in a lot of games. It should be there depending on whether whether it works for the game in question, not just thrown in there for the fuck of it.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

The whole point is that you can't respec. Respec is for dumbasses who don't know how to spec in the first place.

How do you know how to spec?

Unless you are playing a CRPG licensed from a pen and paper product you probably don't have comprehensive documentation of the mechanics available from the in game help and the manual.

A lot of that can be resolved by good game design and a reasonable manual or a bit of basic understanding:

The disadvantage is that players can spend their skill points in a way that results in their characters being terrible at pretty much everything.

Just as an example, imagine the player starting Fallout for the first time who gives himself 4 strength, 3 intelligence and 1 luck and tags Big Guns, Gambling and Speech. With an INT less than 4, all he gets are the dumb dialogue options making his Speech skill completely useless. With a strength of 4, he now can't actually wield any of the Big Guns as they all require a minimum strength of 5 or 6. His Gambling skill is also rooted (or at least, nowehere near what it could be). I'm of the mind that sometimes, people need to make these kind of mistakes. They don't know how the system works, so of course they mess it up. It's all part of the experience and is why games are always so much easier the second, third and fourth time around. The trick is to make a game enticing enough that players want to play it again.

In the above example, you've rooted yourself by being an idiot, not by the system. Gambling without Luck? Big Guns without Strength? There are a few givens inherent in just the words themselves that would imply "this might be required". A few tips in the manual (Big Guns have a high min Str requirement) and you avoid obvious problems like that. If you're such a dumbass you ignore the manual and charge ahead with something like that anyway, then you deserve the role you just chose to play.

Most of the time with non licensed systems the mechanics are quite obscure, so you don't know many of the formulas that determine your performance.

A lot of things are fairly simple to deduce such as picking melee weapons and focusing on strength or knowing that magic might be harder. If it's your first time and it's a new system, it behooves you to learn it, don't ya think? There's also nothing inherently wrong with getting an hour into a game and going "This'd be better if I re-started" but there's a difference between "Wow, I can't do anything!" (poorly designed system) and "Hmmm... if only I'd put an extra point into Melee earlier I'd have been able to use that awesome weapon during that really tough battle..." (next time will be easier).

So in an unspoilered playthrough you are simply picking based on the skill descriptions and what kind of character think is cool. Which is fine if all the skills are within a reasonable level of effectiveness.

But because creating a balanced RPG system out of nowhere is extremely difficult there are usually multiple specs which sound like they'd be fun to play, but are actually awful. It's pretty much an iron law of non licensed RPGs.

Respec is a cheap out for the developer though. Rather than say, comprehensive Q&A testing giving them ideas on what they should and shouldn't hint at, instead they just add a re-spec. Why not just add in a "Win the Game" button? You know, for those people who find it too hard. Respec is the sign of a poorly balanced game more than anything else. The whole point is a well-designed game will let you know that "The big bad is immune to fire" (through a book, or a quest where you seek someone out so they can specifically give you this information) early enough that you can deal with it.

 

[tindrli]

wtf is respec anyway???

 

[sgc_meltdown]

It's respect without a T.

Very disrespectful.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

You guys are such whiners. Respeccing in an action RPG is fine. If I had time enough to hack my way through 8 gajillion monsters and experience a paper-thin plot twice just to try another character build I'd be...back in varsity.

For a real RPG : no respec. For an action RPG : respec fine. Everyone eventually just used that external app in D3 to change their characters anyway.

 

[KalosKagathos]

Having a game designed around allowing you to reallocate could be fun though. So that you'd need to constantly redesign your party specifically to fit the different dungeons, like you already might need to switch party members, equipment or spell memorization and such.

Make fun of the OLOLOLO GIRLY WEEABOO BOY at your own risk: he eats people.