Editorial Eurogamer Looks Back at Bioware's Jade Empire

[abnaxus]

At least you could turn that goody two shoes Imoen clone (Dawnstar?) and princess chick to the dark side in this game, that was pretty fun tbh.

 

[Brayko]

I remember I had bought Kotor 2 and Jade Empire at about the same time. Guess which one ended up in the trash first?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Don't know, don't care.

 

[AlabasterOvercoat]

It was an incline from KoTOR "spam flurry until everything die, combat". Also much better game in most other departments from story and setting to companions. Never understood why JE is considered mediocre game while KoTOR is hailed as one of the best RPGs ever, best Star Wars game ever and some messiah of gaming.

 

[commie]

Not really an RPG though. More like an action/adventure with some RPG elements.

This could describe almost every one of their games.

Having said that I liked it: setting was interesting; even though it followed the standard Bioware conventions; at the time though they were just one (or two if you count NWN OC)game(s) old; and so were still fresh. Length was never a problem: I actually think that Bioware games are better shorter than longer: why do people clamor for more trash mobs? They are not going to get anything else! A Bioware game works best at 20-25 hrs in length at most.

 

[Kz3r0]

It was an incline from KoTOR "spam flurry until everything die, combat". Also much better game in most other departments from story and setting to companions. Never understood why JE is considered mediocre game while KoTOR is hailed as one of the best RPGs ever, best Star Wars game ever and some messiah of gaming.

Stop taking Skyway seriously.

 

[Brayko]

I did not care for it, though Volourn loves it. Mass Effect is even less shitty than JE.

 

[Erzherzog]

Haven't played it since it came out. It's one of those games better enjoyed not as an RPG.

Story was shitty, mechanics simple and not thought out (having different martial arts styles should've been awesome. I'll suited for an action-RPG though. If it was more focused on RPG elements then their could've been substance. Hell, if it were action based, and timing and positioning were more important, they could've been awesome.)

I'll give it two things, the setting. (Chinese settings are cool. This is why we never get them apparently. So much to draw on, nothing seen.) I think the art direction was decent. The use of colors mostly. Generic as far as the few Chinese settings go but it looked neat. Glad to have something chinese themed besides Guild Wars: Factions.

Secondly, it did have it's moments. The aforementioned European character. Someone noted being able to turn a couple characters. The linked article notes this. Every now and then an encounter or a part of dialogue actually managed to seep through as something significant. I remember actually finding the merchant amusing. I think it was the VA but I can't recall, I'm going off of memories almost a decade old. Those moments are something that is completely missing from BioWare nowadays. It's so cinematic and polished that it's impossible to get into. It's like James Cameron's movies. I'm completely detached. (Meanwhile Biotards are totally IMMERSED!)

 

[Ringhausen]

Not really an RPG though. More like an action/adventure with some RPG elements.

This could describe almost every one of their games.

Jade Empire only has 3 stats. It feels much more like Dreamfall than a gimped down BG like NWN and KOTOR did.

 

[AlabasterOvercoat]

It was an incline from KoTOR "spam flurry until everything die, combat". Also much better game in most other departments from story and setting to companions. Never understood why JE is considered mediocre game while KoTOR is hailed as one of the best RPGs ever, best Star Wars game ever and some messiah of gaming.

Stop taking Skyway seriously.

What does he have to do with anything, he haven't even psoted in this thread.

 

[Mangoose]

Open Palm/Closed Fist is the only time Bioware did morality right. Actually, shit, it was a better theme than most games. Eastern philosophy is so win.

 

[AlabasterOvercoat]

Open Palm/Closed Fist is the only time Bioware did morality right. Actually, shit, it was a better theme than most games. Eastern philosophy is so win.

Being an asshole is not a Philosophy. Also "being asshole to people actually makes them stronger" was done better in KoTOR2. The only time they did it right was in ME, with "good cop/bad cop" with no attached philosophy.

 

[Infinitron]

Open Palm/Closed Fist is the only time Bioware did morality right. Actually, shit, it was a better theme than most games. Eastern philosophy is so win.

The idea was good. The execution...less so.

This is a common occurrence for Bioware. They're just incredibly conservative with their quest design. Their quests almost always let their lore down.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

I don't care what you guys say, I'd totally play a cinematic wire kung fu popabandit beatemup, with trailing palm motions and shitloads of different fighting styles and your master being killed in a scenic leafswept location by a mysterious villain while you look on from the ground, barely conscious from your wounds
it's a shame that bioware's hand at fantasy action combat waned with their second attempt in dragon age 2

knowing the current bioware of course their marketing team would probably tell them 'not caucasian enough' if this was actually pitched

ps the jade empire soundtrack was p. cool

 

[Mangoose]

Open Palm/Closed Fist is the only time Bioware did morality right. Actually, shit, it was a better theme than most games. Eastern philosophy is so win.

Being an asshole is not a Philosophy. Also "being asshole to people actually makes them stronger" was done better in KoTOR2. The only time they did it right was in ME, with "good cop/bad cop" with no attached philosophy.

Yeah, no. JE was the only one that did it right. ME? Lol.

The idea was good. The execution...less so.

This is a common occurrence for Bioware. They're just incredibly conservative with their quest design. Their quests almost always let their lore down.

Nope, JE was fine. Main story was generic and shitty, but there were good smaller encounters and quests that were actually executed okay.

 

[AlabasterOvercoat]

Yeah, no. JE was the only one that did it right. ME? Lol.

Lol is hardly an argument.

 

[commie]

It's more compelling than 'r00fles!'

 

[sea]

Jade Empire was... okay, in some ways. I actually thought the plot was a little more interesting than the standard BioWare setup, with characters who had more believable and complex motivations than just "I'm Mr. Badguy." The setting, despite occupying that weird valley between horrendous and offensive caricature and at least somewhat accurate to mythology and history, was also a very welcome change of pace, even if they didn't do as much with it as they could. Combat was also not that bad, nothing special but it got the job done and certainly had more depth than standard button-mashing. Some fights near the end of the game got quite hard if I recall correctly.

My number one complaint with Jade Empire is pacing. It starts off very humbly, introduces you to a nice first town and a wilderness area, both of which are reasonably large and have a lot of content. From there there are a couple of dungeons to explore (cannibals, the heavens or whatever, etc.), and the game really feels like it has a sense of direction. After that, you have the pirate fortress, and the game's biggest part, the Imperial City, where the plot (as I recall) kind of just grinds to a halt for several hours as it dumps like 10+ hours of optional side content on you. This portion of the game is, comparatively, huge, and there was really no reason for the location to be so big - the story simply did not justify it.

However, after that you end up in endgame mode almost out of nowhere, and the game becomes super-linear, rushing you from place to place and having laughably short dungeons and only a few small gameplay segments. There's even one of the most ridiculous mini-games ever in the form of that awkward side-scrolling beat-em-up. All the momentum built up over the course of the game comes crashing to a halt. You have five hours of endgame to get through, too, which feels way overlong. I remember thinking "is this the end yet?" over and over, knowing that it wasn't but every part of the game acting like it was about to wrap up, hour after hour.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Two things I will give it, in terms of an action-adventure instead of a crpg:
- it was intended as console only. I.e. it was following the traditions of different gaming styles for consolves v PCs. If we still had a standard practice of separate games designed and customised for each system, the gaming market would be a better place.
- it was the last Bioware game where the romances were treated as an amusing / somewhat-comic diversion rather than a centrepiece of the game. They didn't occupy a lot of time, they weren't thrust in your face quite so often, and they were written with humour. If you started wandering into the gay romance, you'd get a line from the romance companion of something along the lines of 'uh...don't mind me asking, but why are you spending so much time in my tent again? Shouldn't you be over with Dawn or [forgotten the princess' name] right now?', which I thought was a great way of approaching it. Light humour, signposting where it will go, but with no sense of 'this is cannon and you are missing out on important gaming if you don't pursue it' - plus so much of the romance elements were treated as humorous.

In particular I'd add the various lines if you're trying to wangle your way into a threesome - both if you're stats and actions are high enough to succeed, and in the event that both women tell you to fuck off. Rather than giving the 'fuck anyone anytime, and they're just gagging for it....so long as you solve their daddy issues quest first', it came across a lot more like someone who knows that he's got a 100 to 1 shot of pulling this off and is trying to give himself enough wiggle room for plausible deniability 'you know, might be....other....options than just choosing between her and you....'. Not side-splittingly funny or anything, but it wasn't intended to be serious either. It was just a mildly humorous and brief diversion in the plot's down-points, with its real purpose being to make the ensuing battle look more epic than it actually is, rather than being something that you'd list as a feature fo the game.

Compare that to Mass Effect and DA - the romances are front, centre, and usually treated as serious character development. If ME was approached with the same mentality as JE's romances, there should have been a bit where Ashley walks in on you saying the exact same love lines to some other chick that you used to get her into bed, with a list of stat and choice-dependent outcomes - i.e. nothing sidesplittngly funny, but just something to make clear that this is a diversion, not the point of the goddamn game.

 

[Emily]

Jade Empire was actualy good. ( for an Bioware anyways)
I especialy liked arena part, was even hard at times : D

 

[hello friend]

The twist was pretty good. Not very original, trope-wise, but it still took me by surprise.

The combat was pretty nice on the console. Not really suited to the PC though.

 

[Emily]

Well the twist was only twist if that was the first Bioware game that you played : D...
If not every twist in Bio's game is the same shit : D
Even NPC folowers are same from one game to the other : D

 

[Tigranes]

Yeah, if you've played any other Bio games that twist is impossible to miss. It's in your face from the very first conversation of the game, since the dude is all about HEY YOU HAVE A FLAW IN YOUR STYLE THAT NOBODY ELSE WILL NOTICE BUT ME THAT WE CAN'T FIX BY THE WAY I AM A VERY MACHIAVELLIAN CHARACTER I WILL DO WHATEVER IS NECESSARY YOU HEAR ME? *WINK WINK* RUN ALONG NOW AND DO SOME QUESTS

I didn't think it was terrible, but I think all the 'different setting' and 'visceral fight system' took up all of their resources without really adding anything distinctive or memorable to the game. In the end JE's combat is not that different from a lot of console games, and the setting is pretty much Disney in Asia.

 

[hello friend]

The first Bioware game I completed was KotOR, so I guess I wasn't prepared. I liked the whole "if you control the beginning you control the end" philosophical stuff, though. Total bullshit, but points for trying, yeah?

I don't really play console games. But the combat was definitely fluid - and different, visually (if you discount fighter games).