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Extra Punctuation: Molyneux's Unfocused Innovation

Silellak

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Does Peter Molyneuxs still have a good game or two in him? Or is he just a washed-up old hack?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...ra-Punctuation-Molyneuxs-Unfocused-Innovation
The major warning sign for me that the industry has become increasingly artistically bankrupt is that it no longer produces "names." The celebrity artists of game design, your Peter Molyneuxs, your Tim Schafers, your Sid Meiers, your John Carmacks, all emerged out of previous eras. But Peter Molyneux's particular problem is that he's still stuck in the mindset of his time. He is the undisputed king of It Sounded Good On Paper. Yeah, twenty years ago when the ability to have sex with hookers in Leisure Suit Larry blew my fucking mind, the notion of a game being so deep and expansive that after visiting an inn and flirting with the waitress on your way to slaying the dragon you can come back and buy the inn and marry the waitress, or any building or member of the service industry in the world, would have sounded like some glorious unreachable pipe dream. But now that a game can actually have those elements they're a lot less appealing than they seemed while we couldn't have them. Anything looks more appealing when it's behind the window of a swanky shop, against which we press our noses, spellbound.
DISCUSS!!!
 

Metro

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Not that I disagree with his underlying concerns about 'artistic bankruptcy,' but:

Shadow Of The Colossus, Arkham Asylum, Just Cause 2, all my favorite titles, born from something that may be lost to us as the industry plunges into bankable mediocrity.

Not that those titles are bad, per se, but hardly anything I'd call revolutionary. Shadow of the Colossus is somewhat original to an extent but the others? The irony of it all.
 

Hobo Elf

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Why did I even bother reading the article? I knew it was gonna be inane shit once I saw Yahtzees stupid mug on it. Lo and behold, I wasn't disappointed.
 

J_C

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Metro said:
Not that I disagree with his underlying concerns about 'artistic bankruptcy,' but:

Shadow Of The Colossus, Arkham Asylum, Just Cause 2, all my favorite titles, born from something that may be lost to us as the industry plunges into bankable mediocrity.

Not that those titles are bad, per se, but hardly anything I'd call revolutionary. Shadow of the Colossus is somewhat original to an extent but the others? The irony of it all.
Agreed, Arkham Asylum and Just Cause 2 wasn't revolutionary at all, they just improved the action and the sandbox genre.

As for Molyneux, I don't belong among the people who hate a guy. He is a hype machine in itself, but I respect him for the games he designed (except Fable 3). I hope he finished the Fable series with 3, and tries something new, he could do some really good games.
 
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Metro said:
Not that I disagree with his underlying concerns about 'artistic bankruptcy,' but:

Shadow Of The Colossus, Arkham Asylum, Just Cause 2, all my favorite titles, born from something that may be lost to us as the industry plunges into bankable mediocrity.

Not that those titles are bad, per se, but hardly anything I'd call revolutionary. Shadow of the Colossus is somewhat original to an extent but the others? The irony of it all.

He has to bring up names that the consoletard audience can remember. I don't think he did too bad of a job there.
 

Silellak

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Overweight Manatee said:
Metro said:
Not that I disagree with his underlying concerns about 'artistic bankruptcy,' but:

Shadow Of The Colossus, Arkham Asylum, Just Cause 2, all my favorite titles, born from something that may be lost to us as the industry plunges into bankable mediocrity.

Not that those titles are bad, per se, but hardly anything I'd call revolutionary. Shadow of the Colossus is somewhat original to an extent but the others? The irony of it all.

He has to bring up names that the consoletard audience can remember. I don't think he did too bad of a job there.
Keep in mind, I don't think his point was that those were the greatest examples of revolutionary games, but that those are some of his personal favorites, and that they wouldn't be possible without a AAA budget - the same AAA budgets that are leading the industry into "bankable mediocrity".
 
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The biggest problem with Molyneux is that he doesn't really know what a game is supposed to be. That is why he focuses on completely irrelevant shit like being able to get ten wives, but doesn't let them actually impact the game. I wonder whether he is a) bored of gaming, and just making shit that sells, b) actually believes he is doing shit right, but have lost it or c) never actually had it, just took all the credit. I mean, some of his old stuff was pretty good.

Anyways, the chance of Molyneux actually contributing anything worth a shit in the future is close to zero.
 

Gragt

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Inane article is inane.

Edit: I didn't really want to write more because that sort of stuff is commonplace and irritates me every time but shit, this is sirius_business.

This isn't about Molyneux but the trend to write inane articles imbued with a pretense of depth. Molyneux is an old joke now, and it seems that a large part of his fanboys are starting to admit it, so writing about him this way is a relatively risk-free endeavour while still appearing as some sort of rebel who dares to go against the order of things.

He talks of artistically-driven but how many games were a serious attempt to do art? Sure, many games were fun and had a nice artistic direction, but compared to what some masters have produced in many domains, it's at best childish and at worst plain shit.

He, and many others of his ilk, won't dare to take risks. Might be because he doesn't know better, which is more than likely. He won't take the risk to defend a game like Cryostasis, which sports a great narrative but is unfortunately plagued by technical issues and so-so shooting parts. He won't take the risk to even consider discussing The Void, which I still consider as a landmark — many disagree with that statement but hey! this could be the opportunity to start a discussion about it!

I don't mind that sort of shit because you'll always have poseurs in every field, but I wish we had someone who took video games seriously and talked about it as an adult.
 

Metro

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Gragt said:
He, and many others of his ilk, won't dare to take risks. Might be because he doesn't know better, which is more than likely. He won't take the risk to defend a game like Cryostasis, which sports a great narrative but is unfortunately plagued by technical issues and so-so shooting parts. He won't take the risk to even consider discussing The Void, which I still consider as a landmark — many disagree with that statement but hey! this could be the opportunity to start a discussion about it!

Another reason for the downfall he bemoans. Most of the creativity these days are coming from indie studios who release via digital download and while they do get a moderate amount of publicity, the vast majority of coverage is dedicated to AAA titles and, even worse, consoles. A while ago a friend of mine told me to check out Destructoid but after a few months I realize that despite their attempts to seem counter-culture/independent/not beholden, 50-75% of the stuff they review is console or DS or iPads or Kinect or w/e that crap is... and another 20% or so is AAA PC releases.

Sometimes I read/post at the GoG forums but I've grown tired of it because while a lot of people there purport to celebrate the 'Good Old Games' they fail to realize that most of the games they buy today and rave about -- e.g. Durp Space -- just lead to the decline of most of the genres sold on that website. One moron in particular has this anti-DRM fetish and cries about Steam every chance he gets. Meanwhile he ran out and paid $60 for Durp Space on opening day. I won't deny that DRM-esque platforms like Steam have drawbacks but at the very least they provide outlets for the actual cutting edge/original game developers out there to market to a bigger audience, e.g. Magicka. Now, you might not care for Magicka but most people will at least admit it is far more creative than Durp Space. Yet these same idiots who decry DRM fail to realize it is their own ignore in shelling out $60 for AAA schlock (with a whopping 10 hours of game time) that will be the true ruination of the industry.

Of course, they won't notice because most of them were brought up in a culture where the lines between consoles and PCs are horribly blurred and seemingly everything is just an iteration of an FPS or Third Person Shooter/Hacker.
 

Gragt

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I'm ok if crap comes out, and even a lot of it. It's a problem if we come to a point where only crap comes out.
 

Metro

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Gragt said:
I'm ok if crap comes out, and even a lot of it. It's a problem if we come to a point where only crap comes out.

Unfortunately I think we're slowly but surely getting there. The irony in terms of people who have strong stances against Steam/DRM is that ultimately I think it will be digital distribution platforms that will 'save the day' so to speak.
 

Gragt

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Oh it's going towards digital distribution, no doubt about that. I'm not a fan of Steam and use it only for games that can't be available otherwise, but it's ok because we have alternatives and I'd hate to see a monopoly. That said I dislike the idea that indie developpers must go through Steam to get any sort of coverage, because digital distribution helped them bloom these last few years, and it doesn't have to go entirely through one dispenser.

We'll still get good games out. If not from big-budget games, at least from indies. There are still people with talent who can make the things they want. I just wish there were more of them and more people to make intelligent comments on them.
 

Grunker

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I really think the 'dex is pushing it's edgy-envelope on Yahtzee. It's a good, if not revelutionary article from a guy who actually takes his job as a game journalist seriously and doesn't cater to anyone.

Sure, he has some ignorant opinions from time to time, but at least they are his, not just re-iterated game journalism crap.

This guy is a good and not least independent journalist. And that is something incredibly rare today. How sad that the only credible game journalism comes from a guy who hosts a joke-show.
 

Gragt

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He has demonstrated that he has no bona fides as a critic, for relying on his preferences, never going in-depth and refusing to take risks. And despite his attitude of "I'm not touching this" he has a rather large audience to cater to.
 

Grunker

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Mangoose said:
Grunker said:
How sad that the only credible game journalism comes from a guy who hosts a joke-show.
Same goes for politics.

The only reason I didn't mention that was to avoid writing "inb4 conservatards saying stupid shit about TDS."

That, and Denmark has some pretty fucking good political TV-programs. I feel sorry for the Kwa on that front.
 

Morkar Left

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But now that a game can actually have those elements they're a lot less appealing than they seemed while we couldn't have them. Anything looks more appealing when it's behind the window of a swanky shop, against which we press our noses, spellbound.

It isn't the problem that this options are in the game. Even if it has no real impact on the gameplay. The problem is that the rest of the game is shit. Laughable gameplay-mechanics borrowed from arcadegames but badly designed, no thinking, no planning, no skill needed, not even linear questdesign but linear levels (levels!!!!) instead of a world to explore... It's just boring.
 

ortucis

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I am a big fan of Molyneux. This article was a waste of time unlike any game I have played from PM.

I also find it funny that his examples in the article didn't include Black & White while he was busy sucking Molyneux's dick for designing Fable.

Moleyneux created the GOD Game genre single handedly and if in his old age he feels like designing dating sims/light RPG's, then let him. Fable is still far superior to shit these people give 10/10 (Oblivion) to on every site, just cause of 'next-gen' graphics.

Maybe instead focus on giving copy-cat game sequels low scores in reviews if these people want the developers to notice. The suits don't give a shit about blogs when you are selling their game saying something completely opposite in reviews. So gaming journalists are the reason why gaming is going down the drain, not developers like Peter Molyneux (of all the people..).

Maybe he should write something about CliffyB and Bulletstorm. That's innovation right there.
 

Multi-headed Cow

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Morkar said:
But now that a game can actually have those elements they're a lot less appealing than they seemed while we couldn't have them. Anything looks more appealing when it's behind the window of a swanky shop, against which we press our noses, spellbound.

It isn't the problem that this options are in the game. Even if it has no real impact on the gameplay. The problem is that the rest of the game is shit. Laughable gameplay-mechanics borrowed from arcadegames but badly designed, no thinking, no planning, no skill needed, not even linear questdesign but linear levels (levels!!!!) instead of a world to explore... It's just boring.
I think the argument is if the effort that went into letting you wear condoms and fuck peasants and get STDs went into the game proper, it might've been a better game. Not that peasant fucking in and of itself detracts from the game.

And saying Fable is better than Oblivion only works if you're playing Oblivion on consoles, Ortucis. And even then Oblivion still might be better because it's possible to get killed, unlike in Fable. And it has a difficulty bar, unlike Fable. I enjoy Fable for what it is, but as far as retarded dick around RPGs go it's worse than Oblivion.
 

Gondolin

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He, and many others of his ilk, won't dare to take risks.

Nobody is going to finance an AAA title that sounds "risky" and "off the beaten path". What financiers want is predictable revenues, backed by marketing studies. A derivative game based on an established formula will get the money, whereas an original idea will get the "it sounds amazing, but..." speech.
 

Sceptic

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Grunker said:
This guy is a good and not least independent journalist.
Independent, maybe. Good, no, for reasons Gragt has already iterated. I'll also add one, when it comes to his opinions on actual games: reviewing games from a genre you don't like then claiming they're shit games because they belong to that genre is the worst possible thing you can do as game journalist. And Croshaw is the world expert at this.

Gragt said:
We'll still get good games out. If not from big-budget games, at least from indies. There are still people with talent who can make the things they want. I just wish there were more of them and more people to make intelligent comments on them.
I'm worried we're moving more and more away from this. A few years ago the IF scene was in full swing, with some great experimentations being done by Adam Cadre, Emily Short, DA Leary, Michael Roberts... now IF's become completely niche, barely anyone remembers to check the annual IF competition, and none of the authors I mentioned have released a game in years. You know you're in trouble when Arkham Asylum and fucking Just Cause 2 are considered to be the non-mainstream that is dying out as the industry because more focused on bankability...
 

Metro

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Honestly he isn't good because his 'independence' is a facade. A shtick much like his exaggerated, sped-up audio/video reviews and his otherwise pointless use of profanity (i.e. it's merely calculated to make him sound 'edgy'). It's sad when this nineteen year old gives better/more objective reviews than most paid 'professionals.' The only thing mainstream review sites (read: any website they can afford to fund itself through sponsors/ads and compensate its employees) offer that is of any benefit are previews/early access looks, etc.
 

Quilty

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Everything I've ever read or listened to on the escapist has been utter shit. They even put up these videos (extra credits?) that "discuss" painfully obvious stuff in a language they think is so incredibly highbrow, it's just sad. I still visit the site now and then to drool over Lisa's boobs.
 

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