Editorial Fallout revisited at RPG Watch

[TheGreatGodPan]

They play perfectly distinctly. They are united by setting and by Brian Fargo.

I know he was head of Interplay, but how involved was he? I know in Wasteland there are references to him (Faran Brygo), is there something I overlooked/forgot about him in Fallout?

 

[Dhruin]

Not the article itself, nor anything the writer said in it. Fallout has remained a somewhat forgotten franchise over the years, and not even the console spin offs, nor the prospect of a MMOG really helped sparked interest in it. It only seems to have entered gamers' collective memories after the possibility of a sequel at the hands of Bethesda, and I tend to stumble on all kinds of comments across several forums of how good Fallout was - where there were usually none.

I think you're imagining things or your expectations are out of whack. Everywhere I go -- including generalist gaming forums -- has always had a broad appreciation of the Fallout series. As for "forgotten"...I think you're way off. In fact, it gets an amazing level of recognition and coverage considering it's a pretty hardcore, turnbased, non-fantasy CRPG from 8 years ago that was just never going to appeal to a big chunk of average gamers. The console spin-offs were crap so noone replays them or writes about them...I don't really see how that is surprising.

 

[Hazelnut]

FO is DEAD.

Well it's soon to be an shambling animated zombie corpse courtesy of Beth, although I suspect it won't be going after 'Brainss'...

 

[Briosafreak]

They play perfectly distinctly. They are united by setting and by Brian Fargo.

I know he was head of Interplay, but how involved was he? I know in Wasteland there are references to him (Faran Brygo), is there something I overlooked/forgot about him in Fallout?

Zero involvement. Boyarsky, Cain and Jason placed his name in the opening credits as a thank you for letting them and the others do the game, but that was it.

Wasteland was more than a "spiritual ancestor" to Fallout.

The original project that Interplay started was going to be Wasteland 2, only at the last minute EA refused to let Fargo use the Wasteland title.

Interplay then renamed it Fallout: A GURPS Post-Nuclear Adventure, and were going to use the Steve Jackson RPG system (thanks mostly to Tim Cain's love for the GURPS game system and Fargo's desire for a known product).

After a very rocky relationship between the development team and Steve Jackson Games, Interplay decided to drop both Steve Jackson and GURPS from the title.

The project finally became known as Fallout.

At the time I started programming the core isometric engine that would become Fallout, the D&D license was unavailable, or so Interplay thought. So I went after the RPG system that I liked, which was GURPS. At the time I was running a weekly GURPS game, and I thought the system was flexible enough to let me make any kind of RPG setting I wanted. Plus, I had already worked with Steve Jackson Games, who'd let me use the GURPS Space license on some freeware I had written in my spare time. They seemed like a good bunch of people to work with.

After Interplay picked up the D&D license, they almost cancelled Fallout right then so as not to be working on multiple products that would compete with one another. But I pointed out that the setting was so different from orcs and goblins that there would likely be no overlap in the target audience. Marketing believed me, and Fallout was saved from termination.

 

[mirrorshades]

They're actually pretty fucking different games.

...

They play perfectly distinctly. They are united by setting and by Brian Fargo.

You're talking gameplay and mechanics, while I meant theme and story. On the site "Wasteland Ranger HQ Grid", they have a page listing many of the parallels. While some are admittedly a stretch, there is enough there with substance that makes my point, I think: http://wasteland.rockdud.net/fallout.html

Hm... I can see it now. Fallout 3: Fountain of Nightmares.

Sounds like a winner to me.

 

[Rat Keeng]

I haven't been around too long and I have already seen plenty of instances of the Codex making fun of rat killing.

Now I'm wondering, why would you think someone making fun of rat killing in general, didn't include Fallout?

 

[Dreagon]

Just think, if Bethesda can dumb down the charactor creation and skills from their older TES games.....just imagine how much they can dumb down somebody elses system!!

 

[Mantra_n]

some of the worst things have been done with the best intentions, i believe bethesda has the best intentions in mind for fallout 3.

 

[kris]

Everywhere I go -- including generalist gaming forums -- has always had a broad appreciation of the Fallout series. As for "forgotten"...I think you're way off. In fact, it gets an amazing level of recognition and coverage considering it's a pretty hardcore, turnbased, non-fantasy CRPG from 8 years ago that was just never going to appeal to a big chunk of average gamers.

You contradict yourself. by saying that it has broad appreciation and that it "was not going to appeal to a lot of gamers". You can't really have it both ways. I think it is partly a myth that it would not appeal to many gamers due to its setting. I would say it is easier to say that some games just gain sales from having some popular settings (especially like Star wars and LoTR). Like you I have seen that Fallout have a broad appeal and I seen many unexpected talk about how good it was/is.

 

[Dhruin]

Yep. I phrased it poorly.

Still, the overall point is I disagree with Role-player that Fallout is some recent bandwagon everyone has jumped on (with the inference that Bethsoft is the catalyst).

 

[User was nabbed fit]

I liked to kill everything (yes, even to the last rat) in Fallout that opposed me (ViolentOpposition, anyone?), so that's probably why I didn't see why everyone hated F2 and more sepcifically the Temple of Trails, for instance...

Now I see it's because not everyone likes to kill the rats.

 

[Baphomet]

Now I'm wondering, why would you think someone making fun of rat killing in general, didn't include Fallout?

Because it's considered the holy grail of RPGs

 

[mr nobuddy]

I'm thinking of buying Fallout 2 after having bought the first one a few years ago. How does it stand up to it's predecessor (f2)?

 

[mirrorshades]

I'm thinking of buying Fallout 2 after having bought the first one a few years ago. How does it stand up to it's predecessor (f2)?

They fixed a lot of the annoying in-game mechanics, but the story wasn't as good.

If they ever did a re-release of 1 with the interface of 2, that would be about right.

 

[Volourn]

Story not as good? It was pretty much the same fuckin' story. R00fles!

 

[Cthulhugoat]

Story not as good? It was pretty much the same fuckin' story. R00fles!

Oh, you're talking about that Unity stuff? R00fles!

 

[elander_]

Zero involvement. Boyarsky, Cain and Jason placed his name in the opening credits as a thank you for letting them and the others do the game, but that was it.

He was involved in negotiating with the people who have the money and making it all possible. Which was a very complex task considering how innovative Fallout is in relation to the tons of D&D clones that were being created, the game was a big risk in terms of investment. Aparently Boyarsky and Tim Cain realize that and are thankful to Brian Fargo. It's not that he needs any favors to get his name on the credits page of good games if you look at his page at moby games.

This is also tied to the reasom why F3 will suck. The Bethesda Publisher will force the necessary features to ensure their investement to the already clueless Bethesda Studio of sucking bitches they own. The publisher is completely blind to rpg quality or even wishes it and will impose these features like quest compass, journal tutorials, linear plots even a brain-dead can follow, action combat, 1st-person view, etc, to be sure that their investment will be brought by the the millions of FPS gamers who never heard of Fallout or don't have a clue of what rp means.

Anyway is this Wasteland 2 stuff for real?

 

[Briosafreak]

Aparently Boyarsky and Tim Cain realize that and are thankful to Brian Fargo.

Hmmmmm, now that's what I said isn't it? Nothing in gameplay terms, almost cancelled the thing, but in the end gave what the Fallout devs wanted so they are grateful for that. So we agree on that right?

 

[Volourn]

No Fargo. No FO. He *is* FO. Period.

Just look at the absolute failure that Cain, and co's own company ended up being. They had three chances to make another FO, and simply couldn't.

Fargo was smart. he gave up Interplay before it fell down splat.

 

[Briosafreak]

The things the fans from shooters by Bioware say these days, tsk tsk...

 

[elander_]

Sure we agree, just added some interesting details.

One of these days Volourn i will pull your head from your body and piss inside your neck.

 

[Volourn]

"The things the fans from shooters by Bioware say these days, tsk tsk..."

R00flers!



"One of these days Volourn i will pull your head from your body and piss inside your neck."

I can't wait!!!

 

[galsiah]

I'm thinking of buying Fallout 2 after having bought the first one a few years ago. How does it stand up to it's predecessor (f2)?

Some people prefer it, and it does clear up some interface issues, amoungst other things.
Personally I haven't got far with it though, simply because the constant self-referencial "humour" pisses me off. If in-game characters talking about how e.g. developer-X didn't create enough animations, doesn't annoy the hell out of you, you'll probably like it. If it does, spend your money on a game where coherence is prioritized over in-jokes which don't even attempt subtlety.

I'll replay Fallout before I'll continue with Fallout2.

 

[Surgey]

I'm thinking of buying Fallout 2 after having bought the first one a few years ago. How does it stand up to it's predecessor (f2)?

More flair, a bit less story and choices. Still great, by all means, but not quite as awesome as the first. It has some more cool stuff, like BG2, but unlike Baldur's Gate, it's not a clearly superior product to the first.

 

[Gnidrologist]

More flair, a bit less story and choices.

Less story - maybe - although I didn't feel that first F was particualry heavy on story. Maybe on gritty, more intense and post-apoc relevent atmosphere, but not story.
As for less choices - complete and utter bullshit - F2 has way more choices in almost every instance except the ending, in which you kill the BBB. They gave you a plenty of different ways of doing that though.