Interview Feargus Urquhart talks about stuff at Rock Paper Shotgun

[Roguey]

"Obsidian will continue to make AAA console games that cater to AAA console audience tastes" is kind of no-shit statement. I really don't know why most of you even still care about it.

 

[Duraframe300]

He said they had no reason to make their games particularly hardcore, which is a vague statement to begin with. I bet Obsidian's approach to gameplay in AAA titles doesn't change at all because they have a kickstarter project. For better or worse. They have as many reasons to make their games "hardcore" as they ever did.

Yeah, maybe that was hyperbole. I'm sure guys like Chris and Josh will still want to stealthily inject an oldschool favor into whatever they're making, but...there's less motivation to do it, and less motivation for guys like Feargus to authorize it.

I doubt that like tuluse.

Surprisingly, I don't think we had a good indicator on how Obsidian would design gameplay so far.

KOTOR II - (No real gameplay guys at this point in their history, took mechanics from previous game)
NWN II - (Development mess)
Alpha Protocol (Development Mess, hell one of its main problems was nobody being on one page in terms of gameplay THRUOUGHT the entire development)
F:NV (took combat mechanics from previous game, massivly improved though)
Dungeon Siege III (Gameplay was *fine* for what it was, low-budget title)

IMO, with their changed development focus, I'd assume that we get more *good for what it is* gameplay, instead of terrible gameplay. I don't think now having Project: Eternity makes them not want to make their games complex. If anything, how complex a game is going to end up will be determined mostly by publisher demand on the title.

 

[Infinitron]

IMO, with their changed development focus, I'd assume that we get more *good for what it is* gameplay, instead of terrible gameplay.

I never said otherwise. "Good for what it is" isn't "good enough for the Codex" though.

If anything, how complex a game is going to end up will be determined mostly by publisher demand on the title.

Well, yeah.

 

[Duraframe300]

Surprised?

I even originally showed him to the codex (Think I registered later though)

 

[Roguey]

"Good for what it is" isn't "good enough for the Codex" though.

The reception to Fallout 3 (on release and the catalyst for the "good for what it is" meme), DA:O (also on release), Mass Effect 2 (again on release), Divinity 2, Witcher 2, DX:HR, and Skyrim suggests this isn't always true.

Furthermore

 

[Infinitron]

You know what I meant, Roguey.

Anyway, is nobody surprised by the fact that Feargus thinks that the Diablo franchise is in trouble, even putting it in the same category as Dragon Age? Diablo 3 really was that bad, huh?

 

[Cowboy Moment]

You know what I meant, Roguey.

Anyway, is nobody surprised by the fact that Feargus thinks that the Diablo franchise is in trouble, even putting it in the same category as Dragon Age? Diablo 3 really was that bad, huh?

I think he's just voicing what is clear to most people paying attention to D3 - that even though the game sold very well, it exhausted much of the good will Blizzard has accrued during the late 90s and early 00s, by ultimately being disappointingly shallow and uninspired.

It will be interesting to see how well Heart of the Swarm sells, in light of this.

 

[skuphundaku]

It's not the gun-grabbing though, that has actual real-world evidence-backed connection to populations with less gun violence

Here I have to disagree with you. You have less crime in Texas than in Illinois, New York or California. Why? Because in Texas, if you try something funny, they'll shoot your ass and don't even bother asking questions later. In Chicagoland, The Bloomberg Kingdom or Cali, they'll trow the book at you if you have the gall to defend yourself. Also, I'll just mention the fact that firearms-related crime increased both in Britain and in Australia after private gun ownership was, essentially, banned in the '90s. If you want actual reference on that, either google it or I can look it up for you.

I don't want to go too far with this, since it's already pretty off topic, but your examples conveniently leave out Japan and places like Canada. I'd like the UK reference if possible too out of curiosity. I suppose I could Google it, but it's easier to know for sure that we are looking at the same report.

When gun violence went up in the 90s there, was it just correlation or is there actual evidence of causation? Also, what has it done since that time? I would imagine that a spike would be predictable, followed by a gradual downward trend.

OK, this is wildly off topic from the matter of this thread, but here goes:

Britain:
[2010/2011] http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public.../crime-research/hosb0212/hosb0212?view=Binary
[2009/2010] http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public.../crime-research/hosb0111/hosb0111?view=Binary
[2008/2009] http://webarchive.nationalarchives....rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb0110.pdf
[2007/2008] http://webarchive.nationalarchives....rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs09/hosb0209.pdf
[2006/2007] http://webarchive.nationalarchives....rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0308.pdf
[2003] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2769569.stm

The BBC article says (and doesn't provide a hard quote but seem to be working on data from a report from the Home Office because what they're saying is supported by the newer HO reports) that crime and, firearms-related crime, had been on a steady rise up to that point (2003). If you look at Figure 1.1 in all the HO crime reports, you'll see that there really was a peak in homicides in 2003. However, I have to quote the following statement that can be found in the 2010/2011 report, on page 16: "Caution is needed when looking at longer-term homicide trend figures, primarily because they are based on the year in which offences are recorded by the police rather than the year in which the incidents took place. For example, the 172 homicides attributed to Dr Harold Shipman as a result of Dame Janet Smith‟s inquiry took place over a long period of time but were all recorded by the police during 2002/03. Also, where several people are killed by the same principal suspect, the number of homicides counted is the total number of persons killed rather than the number of incidents. For example, the victims of the Cumbrian shootings on 2 June 2010 are counted as 12 homicides rather than one incident in the 2010/11 data."(emphasis mine). That means that the massive peak in 2003 is an artifact of this methodology. OK, these are just homicides, which can be committed in may ways (Figure 1.2, in all reports), the clearly favorite means of doing it by Brits being sharp instruments. Homicides by shooting hover around a little under 10% for male victims and under 5% for female victims, for an average of around 6-7% overall. These figures seem to have stayed roughly constant since 2006. Now, finally, if we go to Figure 2.1 (in all reports), we'll see, again, a peak of all-firearm related violence in 2003, which correlates with the 2003 peak in homicides. However, if we look just at non-air guns (because I wouldn't count air-guns as firearms in the first place anyway... you know, the "fire" part of "firearm" kinda excludes air-guns), there has been a slight and steady increase up to 2006, and just an even slighter decline ever since.

These are the facts on the ground, the results of the gun-grabbing, which are pretty unimpressive, especially when you consider when the legislation was put in effect. The first episode of gun-grabbing happened after the Hungerford massacre in 1987 and it was the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988. This one didn't have any measurable result. The second episode of gun-grabbing, the coup-de-grace for gun ownership in England and Whales, happened after the Dunblane school massacre in 1996 and it was the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997. As we have already seen, homicides have been on a rise until 2003 (6 years later) and just on a steady decline since and gun-related crime has been on a rise until 2006 (9 years later) and just on a very slight decline since, which could be just a matter yearly variation and not even be statistically relevant in the long term. You're talking about correlation not being causation (and that's true), but if you have a causality, correlation is expected, but here you can't see even a slight correlation between draconian gun legislation and crime levels.

Also, the latest slight decrease in homicides and gun violence may just as well be related to the overall decrease of crime rates all over the western world. After all, gun crime and especially gun homicides are a tiny fraction of all crime, and especially, of homicides to start with. The problem is that, from time to time, some moron starts shooting up a place and racks up a double digit bodycount and, in the process, fucks over all the law-abiding gun owners.

These stats don't include the latest spate (and alleged increase) in gun crime in Britain, not to mention that some gang-bangers have started using hand grenades (that one was even caught on camera). Not to mention that London is one of the big cities (if not THE big city) in the world where you have most chances of being knifed. Now some retards were talking about banning pointy kitchen knives because "who needs those anyway?".

Australia:
[2011] http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/0/B/6/{0B619F44-B18B-47B4-9B59-F87BA643CBAA}facts11.pdf
[2009] http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

In Oz, the gun-grabbing happened all at once, with the National Firearms Agreement and the subsequent 1996/1997 (forced) gun buyback after the Port-Arthur massacre of 1996. Here (Figure 10 of the AIC report), you have an inflection point on the graph in 2003 (like in Britain). The difference is that, absent those statistical artifacts created by recording all the kills of a serial-killer in that year (like it was the case in Britain), instead of having a massive peak in that year, you just have the beginning of a slight decline. In percentage points, the decrease may be impressive, but the numbers were so small to start with that any decrease would seem significant. The problem is that you can see the same steady decline in other crimes over the same time period. For example, you have the same type of decline in fraud (Table 5). Fraud is, pretty much, the complete opposite of gun crime, so you can't tie both together other than by recalling what I was saying earlier about crime levels, in general, being on a decrease all over the western world lately. However, what the 2011 AIC report doesn't show a history of (assaults, rapes, which are a type of assault, and other types of violent crime) have been on an increase. Why haven't the AIC plotted those graphs I wonder? Maybe they're squeamish about showing how those types of crime have increased. You can't just have people starting to question why that is the case, can you.

Finally, you mention Japan and Canada. I can't talk about Canada because I'm not familiar with it, but you can't compare Japan to Britan, Australia, or any other country for that matter. There are too many and too great cultural differences in order to make any valid comparison when it comes to gun-crime.

Also, all of this, in the end, ignores the core tenet of the Second Amendment. The 2A wasn't created to fight crime or to allow people to hunt or any other such nonsense that is trotted out nowadays by some. The 2A was created to be used as insurance against government tyranny, because the Founding Fathers had just went through an war of independence from a tyrannical government and they said "Never again!". Losing that kind of insurance for the sole benefit of slightly fewer homicides (even more so when crime levels, on aggregate, are going down without anyone having to do anything all over the western world), is misguided to say the least. If you're one of those saying "you're a nutter if you think you could stand against the government and survive", look at how that crazy motherfucker Dorner, alone, had the LAPD act like they were fighting back against an invasion of a superior force. Shooting up paper-delivering old ladies and other assorted citizens just for fear that hey may be this one guy is pretty telling.

 

[Jaesun]

What in the fuck?

 

[skuphundaku]

What in the fuck?

He wanted proof, I gave him proof.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[skuphundaku]

Yeah, I know. Tell him that, maybe he'll see the error of his ways.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I've already told you guys - now that Obsidian have their Kickstarter project, they have absolutely no reason to want to make any of their mainstream AAA games particularly hardcore. It's gonna be good storyfag games with dumbed down mechanics, all the way. Maybe they'll even learn how to make a good action-RPG in the end.

Whaaaaat? You mean that if they make MILLIANS from PE (PLZ BUY NOW!!) they won't start to make actual RPG, or maybe at least good games? Noooo... but I though.. people said... if you buy Obsidian's shit you're helping them make good games... why u lie? ((

 

[Infinitron]

I've already told you guys - now that Obsidian have their Kickstarter project, they have absolutely no reason to want to make any of their mainstream AAA games particularly hardcore. It's gonna be good storyfag games with dumbed down mechanics, all the way. Maybe they'll even learn how to make a good action-RPG in the end.

Whaaaaat? You mean that if they make MILLIANS from PE (PLZ BUY NOW!!) they won't start to make actual RPG, or maybe at least good games? Noooo... but I though.. people said... if you buy Obsidian's shit you're helping them make good games... why u lie? ((

They might, but those games won't be AAA console games. They'll be Project Eternities with higher budgets.

 

[FeelTheRads]

They'll be Project Eternities with higher budgets.

Ah, so full fledged DA clones. Yes, good RPGs indeed.

 

[Indranys]

...but what should combat be in that next big role-playing game?

Isn't that obvious? It should be turn based, or at least phase based.
And please no filler combat.
Crappy button smashing action combat won't do.


But wait a minute, it won't give Feargus and Friends Skyrim's sales figures.
So they'll make banal shit action combat with pause instead.

 

[Duraframe300]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/02/16/obsidian-on-project-eternity-kickstarters-future/

Nothing stops us from being able to do those two different things. It’s going to make us look at Eternity as a brand. What else can we do with it? I want to hook up with the Pathfinder guys and see about doing a Pathfinder Eternity world book thing. It sounds a little weird, but… A card game. A board game. I’ve already been chatting with Cryptozoic Entertainment. We have nothing going on specifically, but they have a lot of experience in board games and card games. That’s what’s going to be transformative.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/02/16/obsidian-on-project-eternity-kickstarters-future/

Nothing stops us from being able to do those two different things. It’s going to make us look at Eternity as a brand. What else can we do with it? I want to hook up with the Pathfinder guys and see about doing a Pathfinder Eternity world book thing. It sounds a little weird, but… A card game. A board game. I’ve already been chatting with Cryptozoic Entertainment. We have nothing going on specifically, but they have a lot of experience in board games and card games. That’s what’s going to be transformative.

Wait for the newspost.

 

[Excidium]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/02/16/obsidian-on-project-eternity-kickstarters-future/

Nothing stops us from being able to do those two different things. It’s going to make us look at Eternity as a brand. What else can we do with it? I want to hook up with the Pathfinder guys and see about doing a Pathfinder Eternity world book thing. It sounds a little weird, but… A card game. A board game. I’ve already been chatting with Cryptozoic Entertainment. We have nothing going on specifically, but they have a lot of experience in board games and card games. That’s what’s going to be transformative.

The game isn't even out and they are already planning on milking it.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

 

[Crooked Bee]

Interesting that he mentions Arkham City: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/12/batman-arkham-warner-brothers/

Details for Arkham 3 are unknown, but VG247′s “own sources” claims developer Rocksteady isn’t involved.

Remember this?

It almost feels like a fairy tale ending: after years of rushed projects, sudden cancellations, and brutal layoffs, Obsidian is suddenly in control of its own destiny. They've got two promising games on the way, and even just a few months ago, major publishers were knocking on their door: Urquhart told me he's been talking to Bethesda, Ubisoft, Warner Bros., and LucasArts.

Scribblenauts: An RPG

 

[Infinitron]

Looney Tunes RPG: Shadows of Acme

 

[Tel Prydain]

It's kind of disappointing, because out of all those games, he clearly likes Arkham City's combat the most - and combat in that game is very shallow, although visually impressive. If he wanted to have an RPG with Ninja Gaiden's combat, I could have a certain amount of respect that - if you're going to copy action games, you may as well copy the good ones. Even better, if he looked up to Dark Souls, which had an excellent combat system.

But nope, Arkham City. Guess we're in for another Alpha Protocol, because a combat system like AC's requires a high level of polish to work well, and let's just say that is not one of Obsidian's biggest strengths.

It’s not ideal… but I can see how it’d work. It’s an engine that can do hand-to-hand and stealth, both quite well. There are a lot of ‘specials’ that could be skills – plus obvious buff stuff like just boosting the window in which you can counter. You’ve got very basic detective stuff in there that could be fleshed out.
So keep the stealth, combat and detective stuff from the old games, layer on a slightly more complex skill system, add some dialogue stuff, add multiple paths (talk your way through vs detective skill opening another route vs sneaking path vs fight through)… they could make an Alpha Protocol game that actually works this time.
And hell, if they did base it on Batman Inc so you could customise your toon a bit, you could throw in a system where killing an villain will cause consequences, good and bad (police get on your case, villain’s ally goes for revenge, you might avoid a later conflict, etc). It always bugged me that Batman keeps letting the Joker live – in a way Batman is culpable for everyone the Joker killed since he keeps letting the fucker go. It’d be interesting to let you play that out…
I have to say that if they did all that, an Alpha Protocol/Batman hybrid sounds like it could be pretty fucking cool. Not a true RPG, but it could be awesome as a Dues Ex-ish aRPG.

 

[tuluse]

Looney Tunes RPG: Shadows of Acme

I would play the shit out of an RPG set in the Rodger Rabbit universe.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Who Framed Roger Rabbit 2: Mask of the Betrayer