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Decline Final Dungeons Suck are Ass in 99%

behold_a_man

Educated
Joined
Nov 26, 2022
Messages
282
What is your solution?
The Big Bad should appear in front of you for one final duel the moment you learn of his existence?
It would be quite entertaining if I could duel the final antagonist since the start of the game, especially in a character-building-focused game. It's a neat way to measure progress - "How much do I lack if I want to beat him?". Also, it could remove the main quest and allow the game to focus on side gigs, being an elegant framework for a non-linear game.
 

scytheavatar

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
763
Because the devs ran out of time/money/ideas/whatever so it ends up either being a rushed copy-paste job or a mess of new elements or mechanics with no build-up or context. It makes sense that the bad guy/group would live in a heavily fortified place, storming it should be climactic and the ultimate test of your abilities and knowledge.

Final dungeons don't suck as a concept and most of them suck because game development with finite resources sucks. They don't have to suck just because most of them do.

I find it to be a recurring problem in those sprawling rpgs that take 2498457 hours to complete. By the time you reach the so called final dungeon you just wanna be done with it, probably the same as the developers.

I think it's both of these.

Let's say as a developer you think the game should have 5 main areas. It seems like what most do is work on the game in a linear fashion, starting at the beginning and working until they reach the end. Then what often happens is the time and budget (and creative energy) start to run out, leading to a rushed and unsatisfying ending.

Imo this can be fixed by prioritizing areas properly.
It still makes sense to do the starter area first, since if it's not fun then players won't be invested and will probably quit the game.
But the next area that gets developed should be the ending, so that the game is brought to a fun and exciting conclusion.
The least important and lowest priority are the 3 middle areas. As time and resources wane, you can thin these out or maybe even cut one entirely, rather than do a half-assed ending.

This approach is admittedly complex and you have to be careful not to run into a situation where everything is out of whack at the end because you were planning on X, Y, and Z in the middle and now those things are cut.
However I think it's something that can be worked through and would effectively solve the problem of bad ending dungeons / bosses / etc.

Only a fraction of your players will bother to play to the ending. For CRPGs 40% completion rate can be considered quite good. Based on that why bother maxing your dev effort in the endgame? Over creating a strong middle?
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,932
Location
Ingrija
you can't require players to have mastered top tier build combos and optimised routines in order to finish the game.

I 'member there was once a time when gitting gud at the game was mandatory in order to finish it.

Good times.
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Shitposter
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
16,594
I think there should be more effort devoted to discovering new ways to destroy or defeat a final boss.
For example, destroying his industrial base or main resource production center or weakening him through different means, leaving him toothless during the final confrontation.
Perhaps you can even negotiate with him and convince him to yield.

Don't get me wrong, I am a combat fag, but I want more ways to dispatch enemies, more routes to victory.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,921
you can't require players to have mastered top tier build combos and optimised routines in order to finish the game.

I 'member there was once a time when gitting gud at the game was mandatory in order to finish it.

Good times.
Isn't this literally why soulslikes exist?
Soulslikes are for people who like rhythm games but don't have the cardio for Dance Dance Revolution.
 

StaticSpine

So back
Patron
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
3,288
Location
Balkans
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I think there should be more effort devoted to discovering new ways to destroy or defeat a final boss.
For example, destroying his industrial base or main resource production center or weakening him through different means, leaving him toothless during the final confrontation.
Perhaps you can even negotiate with him and convince him to yield.

Don't get me wrong, I am a combat fag, but I want more ways to dispatch enemies, more routes to victory.
Wasteland 3 kinda has this type of final dungeon location where you can make enemy factions fight each other and leave the final boss' citadel without guards.
 

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