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Review First NWN2 review - 81% (without the toolset)

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Tags: Neverwinter Nights 2; Obsidian Entertainment

<a href=http://www.pcformat.co.uk/>PC Format UK</a> mag features the first <a href=http://www.atari.com/nwn2/>Neverwinter Nights 2</a> review. Metadigital was kind enough to post the review on the <a href=http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=44433>Obsidian forums</a> 10 days ago, but since nobody told me...
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<blockquote>The tricky part is that Neverwinter Nights 2 isn't a game with a toolkit, it's a toolkit that happens to come with a game. As with its predecessor, you can sit down and make your own epic multiplayer RPGs — dialogues, characters, levels — and in a few months' time, anything in the box will already have been forgotten...</blockquote>Sounds like a great game.
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<blockquote>Compared to the original NwN's campaign, NwN2's single-player mode is bliss. It has character. It has satisfying quests. It's more focused on being a game, whereas the first all too often felt like the world's most expensive sample construction kit project. The KOTOR feel is undeniable, from the way that characters in your party affect the encounters you have, to the style of the cut-scenes — but this time around, rather than a couple of static characters, you have the whole D&D ruleset to play with. You can be good or evil; talk your way out of trouble or rush in, swords flailing.
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That said, there are some major annoyances. NwN2's construction kit origins make many of the areas feel very samey, as does its tendency to extend quests far beyond their welcome. With your ability to Rest almost anywhere, and a full-team instead of NwN's solitary Henchman, there are a few surprises during your missions, and little challenge — provided you can beat the baddies in the first room, chances are it's only the boss you'll need to watch out for. In short, when adventuring, NwN2 is great fun — in dungeon crawl mode, it's fairly weak. You might even say that some of those dungeons 'drag on', though of course we're much too polite.
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If all you're interested in is the singleplayer campaign, we're talking around 81%.</blockquote>Doesn't sound very impressive, but let's wait for more reviews.
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Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
890
Whelp! I'm not getting this only-to-be-modded bullshit! Damn, i hoped i hoped. Oh well, back to Gothic 3 for me.
 

Whipporowill

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The_Nameless_Prick said:
Whipporowill said:
Still sounds better than the NWN OC to me...

well, alot of things were better than THAT

Yeah, basically what I meant as well... :lol:

Still, I'll play it to see what Obsidian has been up to. Never bothered to finish KOTOR2 even though I've somehow managed to play through all the NWN addons. Weird.

Oh, and a score of 80 something isn't that bad anyway, is it?
 

obediah

Erudite
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Messages
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I'm glad to see they really captured the spirit of D&D with rest anywhere and "bosses".
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
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Eh? D&D has 'bosses', and it also allows you to rest everywhere. There is NO rule that doesn't allow to rest anywhere in pnp. It's just that in some aplces rest isn't guaranteed to be successful. LOL

P.S. This is OLD news. I want NEW previews/reviews espicially since my EB screwed the pooch and won't get the game until tomorrow. :(
 
Joined
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Messages
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Whipporowill said:
Oh, and a score of 80 something isn't that bad anyway, is it?

Well, actually, it might be. Considering 79 HUGE gaming review sites came up with an average score of 8.9 for NWN OC.
 
Joined
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Oh yes, happy 7000 posts for Volourn, what a milestone. I admit i haven't been here long, but from what i've heard, only half of those posts are legit :D correct me if i'm wrong
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
28,024
Whipporowill said:
Oh, and a score of 80 something isn't that bad anyway, is it?
Well... First of all, a score of 80 is as meaningless these days as all those 95+ Oblivion scores. Second, let's see what the score is given for: good adventuring, weak, unchallenging combat, boring dungeons, uninspiring quests.
 

obediah

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Messages
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Volourn said:
Eh? D&D has 'bosses',

No. Final Fantasy, Diablo, and Mega Man have bosses. D&D has monsters of different abilities and characters of different levels. D&D was never about killing 400 red foozles with no trouble just to get to the blue foozle at the bottom and spam health potions until it dies.

Anytime you have to cut the xp of monsters to some miniscule of their real value you've failed to grasp what D&D is about.

and it also allows you to rest everywhere. There is NO rule that doesn't allow to rest anywhere in pnp. It's just that in some aplces rest isn't guaranteed to be successful. LOL

Why play word games and shuffle semantics to try to defend a horrible design decision? Besides, PNP allows you to try to rest anywhere, not rest anywhere. And with any competent DM it is guaranteed to fail in many adventuring situations, and has a good chance of failing in many more situations.

The terror of trying to make it out of the slums of Phlan with a wounded party, gone.

Trying to decide whether to risk just enough of a nap to get new healing spells in the middle of a dungeon - gone.

The joy of seeing the 'this room has one stout door, you are confident you could rest safely here message' - gone

Approaching every fight with the fear of what's in the next room haunting the back of your mind - gone.

Aggonizing over what spells to memorize before heading into that dark cave - gone.

By allowing rest anywhere, you take the adventure out of the game. It becomes a chain of independent battles, where everyone is comfortable burning most of their hp and casting all their spells. I guess the concept of holding something back is too subtle for todays kids.

P.S. This is OLD news.

With the game hitting shelves in the next day or so now seems like a good time to revisit all that we know about the game before deciding whether or not to give it a chance.

I want NEW previews/reviews espicially since my EB screwed the pooch and won't get the game until tomorrow. :(

Good for you. I'm sure they'll start rolling in.
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
I wonder what kind of quests these magazines consider inspired. But wait they didn't say anything about this or gave any references for comparision did they?

By allowing rest anywhere, you take the adventure out of the game. It becomes a chain of independent battles, where everyone is comfortable burning most of their hp and casting all their spells. I guess the concept of holding something back is too subtle for todays kids.

I feel kind of dirty saying this but Vorlun is right. In ToEE which im playing now and im loving it as a sort of super dungeon master with great turn-base gameplay we can rest anywhere we want, but theres allways a risk of being found and interrupted. I have an element with an excellent survival and spot skill so i can most of the time rest for 8 hours and recover all my team spells but its allways a risk. Its also possible to spot secret rooms where it is possible to rest without being interrupted but only because one of my chars has maxed his spot skill for his level.
 

Ladonna

Arcane
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Aug 27, 2006
Messages
10,740
Fuck, I already posted this ages ago....

Get your head out of Gothic 3 VD :P
 
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Bleh, call me easy to please, but I AM buying it for the toolset more than anything else. Not just for other people's mods, which were often brilliant in the original; I have a few planned of my own.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
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"D&D was never about killing 400 red foozles with no trouble just to get to the blue foozle at the bottom and spam health potions until it dies."

Tell Gary Gyax that. That's exactly what his version of D&D was. And, oh, D&D has bosses. they're usually called the main villains or antagonists. I wish you'd stop lying. It embarasses you.


"Oh yes, happy 7000 posts for Volourn, what a milestone. I admit i haven't been here long, but from what i've heard, only half of those posts are legit correct me if i'm wrong"

1. Number of posts are irrelevant.

2. Don't exaggerate. It's more like 99% of those are not legit.

3. Who are you?
 

obediah

Erudite
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Messages
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Volourn said:
"D&D was never about killing 400 red foozles with no trouble just to get to the blue foozle at the bottom and spam health potions until it dies."

Tell Gary Gyax that. That's exactly what his version of D&D was.

No. Gygax modules may have been terrible combat heavy grindfests that crapped all over ecology, but they were not diablo levels. In Diablo the monsters on a level are just there to give you the xp and items you need to kill the boss. In gygax modules the monsters are there to kill you through attrition or surprise. Not to mention the traps and other non-monster challenges.

Without having played any recently, I assume that if you allowed the party to rest before the final encounter it would be pretty easy in most of those old modules.

And, oh, D&D has bosses. they're usually called the main villains or antagonists. I wish you'd stop lying. It embarasses you.

Surely even you can grock the difference between a D&D "boss" - say a lvl 8 wizard that leads an army of 5HD monsters and a Diablo "boss" which has 15 times as many hp as everything else on the lvl, has all other stats 2-3 times as high, is artificially immune to many special attacks (as all bosses are), etc... If as a game designer, you must pursue the latter, just go the Shadow of Collosus route and drop the popcorn.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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"Your DM(s) suxx0r(ed)."

No.

Obediah: A boss is a boss ia boss. Your level 8 wizard is still a boss. No matter how you slice it. I bet when Obsidian talks about 'bosses'; they likely mean the wizard example and not the diablo one.

And, no, Gygax was exactly about that - combat and dungeons and death. D&D evolved into what we actually think of role-playing over time. This is why dialogue skills didn't even exist in D&D until 3E (though charisma was often used in its stead).
 

Ryuken

Liturgist
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Feb 28, 2005
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606
Location
Belgium
It isn't exactly too much of a reference as it once used to be for me, but I got a Belgian gaming mag (Pc Gameplay) today and they gave it 83/100, especially mentioning bugs (of all kinds, crashing, sound, AI, graphics, gameplay) and the system requirements as the biggest downsides.
 

Ladonna

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
10,740
Its funny, but out of the three games I am getting shortly, Medieval total war 2, the very game I thought would need the most clout, needs a lot less to run it next to Gothic 3 and NWN2 :lol:

Thats Australian programming for you.... :wink:
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
Can't get the game today but I got the strat guide so I can look at all the characetr creation stuff. Coolie beanies!

EB dissaapointed me today in my town. They usually are good to go along with the NA official release date.

Ah well. One more day to wait impatiently. At least I get to read soemthing.

I don't read spoiler sections though until I finish the game though. That's for wussies.
 

obediah

Erudite
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Volourn said:
Obediah: A boss is a boss ia boss.

I was a bit worried the distinction was too fine for you.

Your level 8 wizard is still a boss. No matter how you slice it. I bet when Obsidian talks about 'bosses'; they likely mean the wizard example and not the diablo one.

Oh look you conveniently managed to get the distinction there. I guess you are as stubborn as you are dumb.

If you can rest between every fight and the bosses are so much more dangerous than other fights then theyeither are of the diablo variety, or involve a lot of monsters.

And, no, Gygax was exactly about that - combat and dungeons and death. D&D evolved into what we actually think of role-playing over time. This is why dialogue skills didn't even exist in D&D until 3E (though charisma was often used in its stead).

I didn't say anything about roleplaying. I was comparing two different styles of dungeon grind. :roll: I should alert your local university - I'm confident an entire class of psych students could ride your fucked up brain to doctorates.
 

serch

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The main PC game magazine in Spain 'Micromanía' gives a 96% for SP and a 98% for MP. 90 % for Gothic III. I don't exactly remember what they gave to Oblivion but it was in the nineties too. The parts of the review that didn't make me puke remarked the possibility of resolving quests through dialog skills, obtaining more XP than using brute force. MM says that the OC is deep and very well written and should take you more than 40 hours.

The game will reach me the 3rd of November and I may even get the CE. Yes, I think that NWN, nowadays, is the only way to obtain a RP experience remotely similar to a PnP session. I give credit to Bioware for that and I hope Obsidian puts the mark a little higher.
 

MonkeyHead

Educated
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Oct 18, 2006
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NYC
I'm going to pick this up. I don't expect a new era of gaming goodness but damn, some of you are harsh. I don't think it's any great secret that NWN OC sucked, hard. But I'm optimistic that Obisidian will deliver an enjoyable, reasonably deep campaign here with some neat bits of new content. Also, it seems like many people here are dismissing out of hand the bundled toolset and all it entails. While user created content is no excuse for a lacking OC it would be unfair to deny that it certainly adds value to the game package. Having recently entered the real world I've been hoping to get some of the ideas I've been kicking around that didn't make it into my now defunct DM duties and this seems like an appropriate tool.
 

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