For Legend of Grimrock fans: Black Crypt

[Stabwound]

Has anyone here played the realtime blobber game Black Crypt? It was only released for the Amiga so it seems to be relatively obscure, but it's a really damn good game from what I've played so far. Being an Amiga game, it looks really good for its time, released in 1992.

What struck me is that it's very similar to Legend of Grimrock. So similar that I would have almost thought that Grimrock was a sequel to it. It's pretty obvious that the LoG designers were heavily influenced by the game, even moreso than Dungeon Master. Just looking at a picture of the game makes it easy to see how heavily influenced they were. For better or worse, the combat is basically identical; you can strafe around the enemies while hitting them, or hit them and backup, etc. You go around the dungeon reading clues, killing monsters and solving puzzles. It seems to be much more challenging than Grimrock, and from what I can tell the dungeon is a lot bigger (maybe more than 2x as large?)

It also has automapping for those that prefer that, which includes me. You can even setup the movement controls so that they're the same as Grimrock.

On the downside, you can't create your own party; you're stuck with Warrior/Cleric/Wizard/Druid and you can only manipulate their stats. It's really not that big of a deal, but the character/skill system is pretty basic.

One question I have is: does anyone know exactly what the stats do? The manual doesn't say anything about them and there is no information online that I can find. You can generally guess at proper stat allotment but some of them are questionable: what's the difference between Int and Wis, for example?

If you want the game, I found an extremely easy way to play it for Windows fags. You can download it here which comes in a pre-configured emulator/game package, and you just have to double click and the game runs. I don't know if it's just me, but saving does NOT work in this version; I have to use savestates instead. The game will save and load, but the saves will not persist once I shutdown the emulator, just a warning.

Anyway, here's a video I posted in another thread. If you've played Legend of Grimrock you can see how similar it is.

 

[Luzur]

yes.

 

[joeydohn]

That's pretty cool, Grimrock is certainly very similar. Other than the fact the first enemy I encountered was a two headed troll and the UI is delightfully unintuitive. Looks like I won't getting any work done this week.

Page Down turns right I assume but Delete closes the game, be careful you don't do that.

 

[Stabwound]

Yeah, the UI isn't the best and certain things like attacking are different from Grimrock, making it difficult to break the habit of right-clicking on the weapon to attack, which opens the inventory in BC.

As far as the movement controls go, I remapped them in the options so WASD moves and QE rotate left and right, just like Grimrock. It seems to be a more intuitive way to play, especially if you're coming from Grimrock.

 

[made]

Finished the game three times but I still couldn't tell you what the stats do beyond the obvious. But rest assured, you won't fuck up your party to the point where the game becomes unbeatable. Combat is not the game's main challenge.

As for the UI being unintuitive - really? I actually thought it works better than Grimrock's since you click (nicely grouped up) portraits instead of weapons so no risk of accidentally unequipping them in the thick of combat. But whatevs.

Should be interesting to see what you think of the level design after only playing LoG before. Keep us posted.

 

[octavius]

I played it back in the days.
I remember it being quite hyped, and that the graphics and spell effects were supposed to be the best ever. They were good, but hardly revolutionary.
Sadly, after having played Chaos Strikes Back this game didn't have much impact on me. I know I finished it, but I only remember a few things of the game itself, like the flying skull. I actually remember Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2 much better, even though I quit EOB 2 halfway though in disgust at the cheesy combat system.

 

[Wolfus]

Black Crypt is an obscure game??? Man, Black Crypt is a LEGENDARY game!!!
Stats are useless... I didn't know there is possibility to distribute points from the pool when I played it for a first time. I just named characters and clicked ENTER CRYPT

 

[Luzur]

That's pretty cool, Grimrock is certainly very similar. Other than the fact the first enemy I encountered was a two headed troll and the UI is delightfully unintuitive. Looks like I won't getting any work done this week.

Page Down turns right I assume but Delete closes the game, be careful you don't do that.

you are supposed to avoid that guy until you can take him, i think he has a key to something IIRC

 

[Mortmal]

Hes right saying its obscure sort of, when playing abandonware people usually completely bypass the amiga games, they play pc games , even GOG only sells dos box packed pc oldies.
When i read people already have problem setting up dos box, no surprise they dont play amiga games, win UAE need a little more effort to install. You have to find the roms , googling "amiga roms" is a tremendous effort .
Oh btw theres plenty of good rpgs you wont find on pc or find an inferior version.

 

[octavius]

When i read people already have problem setting up dos box, no surprise they dont play amiga games, win UAE need a little more effort to install. You have to find the roms , googling "amiga roms" is a tremendous effort .

Which is why the Amiga Forever emulator is a good investment, since it includes Workbench 1.3 and 3.0

 

[Scroo]

Somehow I missed this game back then. But it looks pretty good, thanks for the reminder.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Yes I have played this game...I have only mentioned it here at the Codex about 500 times before...

Next up will be a new Blob game that takes the place by storm, then somebody suddenly yelling "Hey Gais! I found this Amiga game called Fate: Gates of Dawn'...

 

[Mortmal]

Yes I have played this game...I have only mentioned it here at the Codex about 500 times before...

Next up will be a new Blob game that takes the place by storm, then somebody suddenly yelling "Hey Gais! I found this Amiga game called Fate: Gates of Dawn'...

That was what i was insinuating when talking of good rpgs you wont find on pc.People pretend to like oldschool type of games, but dont even play the best ones that already exist and have been mentioned hundreds of time here.
For any of the dungeon masters clones think amiga emulation first .

 

[made]

Can't fault kids for never owning an Amiga. Even back then everyone immediately thought Turrican! and other shooters when you mentioned Amiga, barely anyone knew you could also play serious games on it. Let alone do your homework on one...

 

[Stabwound]

It might not be obscure among people who had Amigas, but it is definitely obscure today. I hadn't heard about it at all until it was mentioned by someone else on this forum. If it was released for PC/DOS it would probably be named along with all of the other CRPG staples people mention from that period.

That, and there's almost zero information to be found on the game online; I still can't figure out what stats do, and it seems like no one else knows either. I guess it's not too important.

 

[joeydohn]

I still can't figure out what stats do, and it seems like no one else knows either. I guess it's not too important.

Not a real RPG.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I demo'ed (pirated) grimrock and I am sad to announce that there is NO fucking improvement from old school FPP game mechanics here other than better graphics. The last part is good but the rest is decline if we consider time as a factor.

 

[Mortmal]

Back then we diddnt surf the web for info, spoilers, or what the stats meant. But we had something youngsters will never encounter again!
What is it grand'pa ? A manual ! I still have the original black crypt box and the manlual include the complete walkthrough. No explanations for the stats but its pretty straighforward , think D&D.

Also mandatory link for french players: http://www.grospixels.com/site/black_crypt.php

 

[Mortmal]

I demo'ed (pirated) grimrock and I am sad to announce that there is NO fucking improvement from old school FPP game mechanics here other than better graphics. The last part is good but the rest is decline if we consider time as a factor.

And since devs arent making much money from rpgs, no immprovemnts to see any time soon in any rpg genre . Can be thankful we get anything at all with such players mentalities.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Although I am bound to agree, you should see my gog, steam, gamers gate accounts donations etc and realize how much many I spend on buying games. I can't afford them all and I consider it a right to demo them before I buy them.

 

[Morkar Left]

I demo'ed (pirated) grimrock and I am sad to announce that there is NO fucking improvement from old school FPP game mechanics here other than better graphics. The last part is good but the rest is decline if we consider time as a factor.

It's incline. On the other hand I don't think you can take time as a factor. The last 10 years were practically similar to the dark ages and you can be happy that old concepts get reinvented instead of being forever lost.

Btw. I'm not a fan of rt combat and I think it was the start of the decline. There turned a lot of rpgs to shit or came with worsened quality because they tried to implement dungeon master boring rt comabt.

 

[Mortmal]

well no point starting the piracy debate again, but i think grimrock devs deserves some money . We arent getting any better rpg this year no matter how flawed you think this one was.

 

[octavius]

Btw. I'm not a fan of rt combat and I think it was the start of the decline. There turned a lot of rpgs to shit or came with worsened quality because they tried to implement dungeon master boring rt comabt.

Dungeon Master was by no means a decline compared to the likes of Bard's Tale and Ultima IV. It was an incline in most respects - UI, paper doll inventory system, sound, graphics, puzzles and immersion.
But the combat was always the weak part in DM and its clones. But even so the combat in DM and Chaos Strikes Back didn't "feel wrong", and you could use the environment against monsters, and even throw missile weapons through bars in doors and gates. In the Eye of the Beholder games OTOH the combat definitely "felt wrong", and except for spells there were hardly any tactics involved, and you were forced to adopt the cheesy "two step dance" or whatever it's called, something I usually only did in DM and CSB when facing dragons. And the puzzles in EOB were banal and boring compared to the DM and CSB ones.

DM clones and turn based games are two different beasts, that appeal to me for different reasons.
I don't see why we can't have both.

 

[Morkar Left]

The problem was that from that point on a lot of developers (publishers?) thought; we got to be real time! And that was just plain wrong.

The only somehow good rt combat rpgs were more or less direct DM clones. I think it works for dungeoncrawler with a fixed enviroment in where you even can use the environment but when I think of all games who could have been great or at least enjoyable with tactical tb combat (Ishar, Fate, Darklands, B.A.T., Hardnova, Planets Edge spacecombat, Megatraveller, Whales Voyage...) instead of trying to implement a rt combat system.

It either fucked up the whole game because of shitty controls or simplified the combat to an extent that you could just use some autocalculation to resolve it.

 

[Captain Shrek]

DM clones and turn based games are two different beasts, that appeal to me for different reasons.
I don't see why we can't have both.

Although I wholeheartedly concur, I must say that I expect CHANGE!