Editorial Gamers with Jobs takes a shot at console-ization

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Black Isle Studios; Fallout 3 (Van Buren)

There's a neat <A href="http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=778&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0">little editorial</a> over at <A href="http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/">Gamers with Job</a> focusing on why consoles are killing off the quality of PC games, including mentioning the incredibly dumbed down <A href="http://www.deusex.com/">Deus Ex 2</a> as well as the recent thing about <a href="Http://www.blackisle.com">Black Isle</a> getting closed:
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<blockquote>Let’s talk about Fallout 3 for a moment. More particularly, let’s talk about the possibility that Fallout 3 and Black Isle were laid on the sacrificial altar with their throats cut and entrails spilled so the console game Brotherhood of Steel 2 could get a transfusion. I’d be happy to hear anyone argue that Brotherhood of Steel 2 is going to be a higher quality game than Fallout 3 would have been, if only so I could mock you in public and perhaps even slap you around with a wet fish. But even I would have a hard time taking the position that, even if it proves to be a monumentally inferior game, Brotherhood of Steel 2 would have made less money than Fallout 3. Fallout 3 and the demise of Black Isle studios is the perfect example of how PC gaming is being beaten to death by mass market console sludge.</blockquote>
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Right on, <b>E</b>! Stick it to the Frenchman!

 

[Psilon]

Hear hear! This "consoles first" development approach is maiming mainstream PC titles.

 

[Volourn]

Just another PC gamer whining selfishly,"Me, me, me!!" :twisted: :twisted:

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Me, me, me!!

 

[EvoG]

Consider this...console games do not need to be dumbed down, this is a misconception of marketing, whom should bare the full weight of current trend in gaming. Gamers, regardless of you opinion of consoles, are not necessarily dumb nor incapable of learning more complex or involved games. I am not saying they aren't rather crude or banal in their l337 speak angst ridden teen world, which can be highly obnoxious, but nonetheless, this issue is with gaming.

I'm both a console and PC gamer, and currently developing for PC initially though with intentions to take the production over to xbox ( though just to note, the only real differences are control method and television resolution ). Beyond that, there is no excuse for Deus Ex 2. Though I like it, it has been widdled too far down, which is odd since Deus Ex 1 did just fine in its pure incarnation on the PS2, garnering great reviews. I'm not saying Deus Ex is the pinnacle of deep involved gaming, but as an example of how it was deemed necessary to 'dumbify' the sequel for no real good reason...other than marketing, which should've spent its time selling DX2 rather than help develop it.

The issue isn't about taking sides, which only limits your field of play, but rather encouraging console development to become less like the stigma marketing dweebs have encouraged. Games would not be as prolific as they are today without consoles, which does bring it to the mainstream. Every successful commercial thing on earth is successful due to the mainstream. We want this, as it keeps the industry thriving ( 15billion a year ), keeps us deep in games and ever evolving quality.

Otherwise, PC games aren't going anywhere, so getting upset that Iply ruined BIS and FO is causing this kneejerk reaction to say PC gaming is dead and consoles are to blame, as someone pointed out, there have been LOTS of killer games that came out for the PC.

Then again, of course this forum is more concerned specifically with RPG's, rather than PC games in general, and with that, all I can say is that if there is no one to buy RPG's, how can a company afford to make one with the development costs incurred today. I want a deep RPG as much as the next guy, but there needs to be that push...to deliver an evolution in the way RPG's look and play, while retaining the depth that makes them RPG's. This is where I think consoles can help, but someone needs to take that first step.

Hate Bioware, but you have to admit that they have people thinking about RPG's a lot more. They are in a great position to start developing RPG's with more depth and still appeal to the mainstream. The more RPG's are successful, the greater the opportunity for RPG's to sell better. Don't forget that Troika is headed in that direction, with Bloodlines. Sure it may be PC only at first, but if that does marginally well, its on Xbox for sure, and if and when they see great sales figures from console sales, dual system development is next. This is still business, and these guys want to be successful, make more money and continue to develop games...we just want them to strive to evolve the games they make rather than be dictated by trends and marketing.

Cheers

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Well, I understand the whole business thing and wanting to cater to the largest crowd possible. Anyone with good business sense can see that. I am also a console and pc gamer. Always have been. But, if the same game was released for console and PC, I would probably go with the PC version simply because it can be patched, modded, etc. Law of the jungle for me.

The problem lies in these companies that are now turning exclusively to consoles and leaving the PC community behind. It's bullshit and leaves no room for expansion on the game. Instead you get this mentality of "let's divide the game in two parts and sell them seperately as sequels, ayuck!". This is bad business sense as people will pick up on what you are doing eventually and stop buying your games. Look at what Caen is doing. Fine example of bad business.

I don't HATE Bioware, I just think they should listen to the fans and give them what they want instead of what they think the fans want. Deeper quests, more interactivity, etc. They definitely took a step in the right direction with KoTOR and I hope they keep evolving.

PC gaming will never die. Of that I am not afraid. What I -am- afraid of however is more people concentrating on the console systems and the quality of PC titles suffering for it.

P.S. - Is the Project Phoenix in your sig the same one as the SETI project of the same name?

 

[EvoG]

No not SETI, but you can read about Project Phoenix on DaC if you'd like. Its a top down, 3D, Post Apoc. RPG I'm currently developing. Long story short, I currently work in the industry( and have so for 8 years now ) and now have an opportunity to develop games I want to play, ideally leading to full time development in the future. Like I said, info is over at http://www.duckandcover.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=31

As for abandonment of PC's, well, that must tell you something...apparently PC's were not as viable for them, or they would stay. All this does is leave more room for those that still want to or need to develop on PC.

Cheers

 

[Volourn]

Actually, Otaku you are wrong. The main problem with BIS is they listen to the fans TOO much. What they should do is tell the fans to shut the hell up. Another thing you meant to say is the following:"Don't listen to the other fans; listen to this fan." Don't worry, BIO ignores me all the time, too.

As for the console vs. PC thing; I just find it humourous. It's just a "my dick is bigger than your dick" analogy and it's pathetic. Who cares what system a game is on as long as it's good and fun. ne good thing about the consoles is they didn't have Pools of Radiance 2. Good for them.

 

[Psilon]

The problem with consoles is the lowest-common-denominator approach. Most consoles don't have the RAM, processor power, or storage space to handle large game states. As a result, coding for the weakest machine you plan to release on (usually the PS2 or XBox) inevitably leads to design compromises because the suits won't let you spend too much time optimizing.

 

[Volourn]

That's true; but of course; when the game si released, in most cases, the buyers *know* that the game is definietly going to playable. That is both a curse, and a blessing. Of course, the developers hsould be allowed to optimize for PC. that's not the console's fault; that's the publisher's fault.