Games to challenge conceptions of character?

[Silva]

What RPGs are there to challenge PCs concepts, convictions, stories, etc and seeing them change?' I'm more interested in mechanics and frameworks than just advice.

I've played Pendragon and Dogs in the Vineyard a long time ago and they were great at this. What else is out there?

 

[Just Locus]

You mean RPGs with C&C? I'm sorry but you'll have to be more specific.

 

[NecroLord]

What RPGs are there to challenge PCs concepts, convictions

Well, D&D had the Helm of Opposite Alignment, potentially turning you from a Lawful Good paladin goody two shoes into a Chaotic Evil demon spawn.
Does that count as changing a PC's conviction to you?
I remember there were also ways to change alignment during the game.
Oh, have you tried Wraith: The Oblivion?
Some dark stuff...

 

[Silva]

You mean RPGs with C&C? I'm sorry but you'll have to be more specific.

Kinda, yes. Specifically C&C about the PC's personal stuff like goals, dilemmas, personality, story, etc. A "Planescape Torment in tabletop form" description would not be that far from the target?

What RPGs are there to challenge PCs concepts, convictions

Well, D&D had the Helm of Opposite Alignment, potentially turning you from a Lawful Good paladin goody two shoes into a Chaotic Evil demon spawn.
Does that count as changing a PC's conviction to you?
I remember there were also ways to change alignment during the game.
Oh, have you tried Wraith: The Oblivion?
Some dark stuff...

I'm referring to games that has that kind of PCs challenging as an integral part of the core gameplay loop, usually supported by mechanics. Pendragon is the most popular I can think of. But there are others like say, Unknown Armies, Smallvile, Dogs in the Vineyard and Masks: a New Generation. Ever heard of those?

I'm out of the loop here and would love to see what new games cater to that playstyle.

 

[NecroLord]

You mean RPGs with C&C? I'm sorry but you'll have to be more specific.

Kinda, yes. Specifically C&C about the PC's personal stuff like goals, dilemmas, personality, story, etc. A "Planescape Torment in tabletop form" description would not be that far from the target?

What RPGs are there to challenge PCs concepts, convictions

Well, D&D had the Helm of Opposite Alignment, potentially turning you from a Lawful Good paladin goody two shoes into a Chaotic Evil demon spawn.
Does that count as changing a PC's conviction to you?
I remember there were also ways to change alignment during the game.
Oh, have you tried Wraith: The Oblivion?
Some dark stuff...

I'm referring to games that has that kind of PCs challenging as an integral part of the core gameplay loop, usually supported by mechanics. Pendragon is the most popular I can think of. But there are others like say, Unknown Armies, Smallvile, Dogs in the Vineyard and Masks: a New Generation. Ever heard of those?

I'm out of the loop here and would love to see what new games cater to that playstyle.

"Smallville"?
Let me guess: Superman?

Edit: Is it any good? What are the "morals" and morality system like?

 

[Silva]

NecroLord , I'm not a big fan of supers genre so I never tried it. But I've heard good things about it.

The ones I've played (Pendragon and Dogs) were pretty good. They play out like a normal tabletop RPG only more character-driven, with the GM coming up with situations and conflicts to put to test and progress the PCs personal stories etc. Think of it more like a party-based Torment than Baldurs Gate if you know what I mean. There are combat and adventure but these are usually conditioned to advancing or confronting the PCs stuff. So, less "oldman in the tavern with a quest" and more "ok you want to revenge your family? let's roll". And it's usually accompanied by mechanics tailor made to instigate and mediate that.

It's not as popular a playstyle as say, dungeon crawls or investigative games, but it's got a niche and a bunch of fans.

 

[NecroLord]

NecroLord , I'm not a big fan of supers genre so I never tried it. But I've heard good things about it.

The ones I've played (Pendragon and Dogs) were pretty good. They play out like a normal tabletop RPG only more character-driven, with the GM coming up with situations and conflicts to put to test and progress the PCs personal stories etc. Think of it more like a party-based Torment than Baldurs Gate if you know what I mean. There are combat and adventure but these are usually conditioned to advancing or confronting the PCs stuff. So, less "oldman in the tavern with a quest" and more "ok you want to revenge your family? let's roll". And it's usually accompanied by mechanics tailor made to instigate and mediate that.

It's not as popular a playstyle as say, dungeon crawls or investigative games, but it's got a niche and a bunch of fans.

Yeah, I know Pendragon. Really good too. I know it even has a mechanic for courtship! Swordfighting, courtship, manners, etc...
The passions and virtues, right? Some knights have virtues like mercy and compassion, while they also have passions like lust and wrath.

 

[PGG]

You might wanna check out "Burning Wheel." It's got a system that's all about challenging your character's beliefs and values. Plus, it's pretty darn immersive. Another one to consider is "Fate Core."

 

[Silva]

NecroLord , I'm not a big fan of supers genre so I never tried it. But I've heard good things about it.

The ones I've played (Pendragon and Dogs) were pretty good. They play out like a normal tabletop RPG only more character-driven, with the GM coming up with situations and conflicts to put to test and progress the PCs personal stories etc. Think of it more like a party-based Torment than Baldurs Gate if you know what I mean. There are combat and adventure but these are usually conditioned to advancing or confronting the PCs stuff. So, less "oldman in the tavern with a quest" and more "ok you want to revenge your family? let's roll". And it's usually accompanied by mechanics tailor made to instigate and mediate that.

It's not as popular a playstyle as say, dungeon crawls or investigative games, but it's got a niche and a bunch of fans.

Yeah, I know Pendragon. Really good too. I know it even has a mechanic for courtship! Swordfighting, courtship, manners, etc...
The passions and virtues, right? Some knights have virtues like mercy and compassion, while they also have passions like lust and wrath.

Yes! The virtues and passion system is more or less the heart for this style, I would say.

You might wanna check out "Burning Wheel." It's got a system that's all about challenging your character's beliefs and values. Plus, it's pretty darn immersive. Another one to consider is "Fate Core."

Oh yes, BW fits like a glove in what I'm looking for here.

I've tried reading it once and found it too much on the crunchy side though. Do you know if a light version was ever released ?

 

[SimTrY]

What RPGs are there to challenge PCs concepts, convictions, stories, etc and seeing them change?' I'm more interested in mechanics and frameworks than just advice.

I've played Pendragon and Dogs in the Vineyard a long time ago and they were great at this. What else is out there?

look into burning wheel