Editorial GameSpy on Troika and publishers

[Sol Invictus]

Simple. If it's good, people will play it, and people will buy it.

If you believe that, I got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

Games we all know are trash are constantly showing their faces on best seller lists. Some good games, like Torment, become legendary for no one buying them.

That's because Interplay dropped the ball on that game. They didn't bother to advertise it, and when they did, they advertised blades and tits as a selling point rather than an existentialist journey - a niche that certainly has a larger base than Interplay's marketing department can count. It also had a really ugly box that simply turned the game off to many.

Exitium: I have not checked any gaming news for quite a while but is it true they have "Dumbed Down" the new setters game?

They didn't just "dumb it down". They made it into a completely different genre from The Settlers series. As I said, The Settlers was always about kingdom infrastructure, not about combat or a big storyline. It isn't anything like the previous Settlers games. It tries to be like Warcraft 3, but top of that, it fails terribly even at that. Combat is incredibly imbalanced (any army that attacks a city with wall defenses will be destroyed) and the game is completely bland. Stay away from this one and stick to the earlier games in the series.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Simple. If it's good, people will play it, and people will buy it.

I agree with Greatatlantic on this one. There are many bestsellers that are utter shit, and many great games that nobody (in comparison) bought.

What did you think I was talking about? Bloodlines? No. I was talking about your game. Greatatlantic misinterpreted the post I wrote to you and took it out of context to mean as if I was talking about Bloodlines. I wasn't.

Your game is supposed to appeal to a small niche, right? If games like Jets n' Guns and a lot of the other titles Reflexive and Stardock release manage to receive a decent amount of sales, why should your game be any different, especially if it's a good one?

Like you said earlier, you're not trying to compete with EA Games' line-up, so what's the problem? If your game is good, people wil play it, and people will buy it. I can't reiterate this point any more than I already have.

Well, I've never said that I'd follow the Spiderweb model to the letter. Every character is properly animated, there are 4 types of armor and 8 types of weapons that are clearly visible.

I certainly hope you don't skimp on the graphics (e.g. by using a horribly limited pallette the way Jeff does) for no reason. With a decent amount of compression you can get a game as good looking as Ultima 7 under 50 megs. You can always provide mp3 music as a downloadable option for players with better bandwidth than Russia. There's no reason why anyone should have to endure MIDIs.

 

[Reklar]

For many people the difference between $0-10/m and $30-50 is a lot. Why waste them on faster internet accesss? To watch more and better porn?

There's all sorts of reasons, but saving time is the primary reason why most people opt for broadband over sluggish 56k. Would you rather drive a junker from the 1920s that isn't allowed on the freeway, or even a main road for that matter, for 10 dollars a month when you can drive a Ferrari for 30 dollars a month? The difference in monetary value is 20 dollars, but what you get is a performance increase that can range from 1000% (56k -> 512kb ) to 5000% (2.5mbit)

I don't know about you, but I think time is money, and I don't particularly relish the idea of waiting 5 minutes for a graphically intense website to load up. There's all sorts of other reasons too, conveniences if you will: being able to stream select internet radio, or tv shows, listen to music while you browse the web via internet radio, upload and share your creations or personal files over the internet without any hassle, download online magazines, and yes, even browse porn. Is it terribly odd to think that people might have something more to do than simply download porn or illegal software? It's funny how some of you only seem to accuse broadband users (e.g. me) of 'downloading warez' just because you're too fucking stupid to comprehend any other reasons for using broadband. Get a life, Reklar.

I'm not accusing you of anything, you've admitted to downloading warez on more than one occasion, so calling me 'fucking stupid' for your own admission seems rather obtuse. As for time being money, sure, if you have that extra $20/month to spend on internet access, if it's available in your area at all, then it's a choice for you to make, but if that $20/month is better spent on necessary things like gas for your vehicle, food for the table, or clothes to replace worn out ones it's not much of a choice. Personally, I am not willing to shell out $70/month for a cable modem connection from the only broadband provider in my area when I spend less than 20 hours a week online. Furthermore, if you don't want to be called on your careless remarks, don't post until you've taken some time to think things over first. Your elitest attitude towards non-power users really doesn't improve the reputation you seem to value so much.

First, it's 50MB now. Second, "most" isn't a number. All I know is that Spiderweb has been in business for 10 years. I don't think Jeff is stupid or couldn't afford better graphics. There is a reason for that, and at this point I'll take his word for that.

You're really missing the point here. Jeff's user base is miniscule in comparison to the number of people who download 250mb demos on a daily basis, and you're more interested in catering to a few thousand or so people who make up Spiderweb's fanbase over the millions of gamers with better internet access?

Personally I think Jeff is in fact very narrow minded for only catering to this small crowd of people when he could be making a lot more money just by making his game appeal to people whose computers don't consist of 10 year old piles of junk from their grandmother's attics. No animation or sound? Oh yeah, that'll really appeal to people. You can argue all you like about how unimportant sound or animation is in comparison to gameplay but I'll ask you to look at the sales figures of games with sound and animation, ones over 10 years old, and compare them to the games without sound and animation of that time. I'll guarantee you Syndicate sold more copies than the text game of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Speaking of narrow-minded, let's review your diatribe. Jeff Vogel is a one man developer who's been in business for 10 years and has a fanbase, yet you compare him to a developer that made a game with a vastly larger budget and development team. How is that an equivalent comparison? And perhaps this thought hasn't occurred to you before, but Jeff Vogel is making the kind of games he likes, not what will apeal to millions of mainstream gamers who's mean intelligence level rivals that of a grapefruit. Besides, I have yet to see any indication that RPG Codex only caters to the likes of the 'miniscule' fanbase of Spiderweb, especially when it covers Dungeon Siege, Neverwinter Nights, and other well selling titles.

-Reklar
(a Fallout/RPG fan)

 

[Sol Invictus]

If someone can't afford 20 dollars for broadband what makes you think he can own a computer? That 700 dollars he spent would be better spent on things he actually needs, like gas for the car or to put food on the table and in his stomach.

I'm not accusing you of anything, you've admitted to downloading warez on more than one occasion, so calling me 'fucking stupid' for your own admission seems rather obtuse.

And bringing it up doesn't serve this discussion in any way that I can think of other than to insult me because you have nothing valid to contribute to the argument. It is completely fallacious to think much less suggest that the uses of broadband are limited to things like porn. As far as I can tell I've never actually 'admitted' to doing that, nor have I emphatically denied it. It hardly matters, either way because it has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. When you're talking to someone does it ever occur to you to ask them stupid questions or bring up completely unrelated topics that insinuate a flaws in their personality or character?

Speaking of narrow-minded, let's review your diatribe. Jeff Vogel is a one man developer who's been in business for 10 years and has a fanbase, yet you compare him to a developer that made a game with a vastly larger budget and development team. How is that an equivalent comparison? And perhaps this thought hasn't occurred to you before, but Jeff Vogel is making the kind of games he likes, not what will apeal to millions of mainstream gamers who's mean intelligence level rivals that of a grapefruit. Besides, I have yet to see any indication that RPG Codex only caters to the likes of the 'miniscule' fanbase of Spiderweb, especially when it covers Dungeon Siege, Neverwinter Nights, and other well selling titles.

News flash: Jeff Vogel isn't a 'one man developer' so it would be really fucking nice if people stopped crediting him as such. All worship the mighty Vogel. He hires other people to do the graphics and sounds in his games. What would be so wrong if Jeff Vogel decided to branch out a little and perhaps spend a few hundred more dollars on graphics in his games? Is your bandwidth so precious that you can't download 5mb more than you normally would if you bought one of his games?

There's nothing wrong with his games per se but when it comes to presentation, he's severely limiting his fanbase and that, by definition, is a narrowminded and shortsighted business error. Why should VD have to limit his games to the same miniscule fanbase of Jeff Vogel when he can just as easily afford to deliver a far superior game that appeals to a much broader spectrum of gamers - and I'm not referring to the braindead idiots who buy crap like Madden 2005.

 

[Shagnak]

News flash: Jeff Vogel isn't a 'one man developer' so it would be really fucking nice if people stopped crediting him as such. ... He hires other people to do the graphics and sounds in his games.

Didn't know that. Not sure why, maybe because I haven't really got into his (their?) games.
See? Being a bystander in big arguments can be educational!

 

[obediah]

I know I've been hard on Troika here, but that's only because I love what they were trying to do, and I'm pissed at them for fucking up (and because I hate fanboys - and purging the codex of Troika fanboys will make it the most fanboy-free place on the net (hooray!)).

That's the stupidest thing I've read lately. Love the" I'm pissed at them for fucking up" part.

I'm afraid you're going to have to spell it out for me? Hating Troika for fucking up may be petty, and childish, but I'm not sure why it's stupid.

The Publisher is where gaming meets commerce - the rules of commerce are changing, so the developers need to learn how to present a more professional interface.

The only thing that developers like Troika need to learn is how to make dual-platform dumbed down games for the mainstream audience. Get a clue.[/quote]

Just eat a fucking gun already. Just because your hero wasn't successfuly at making commercially successful and unique games doesn't mean it can't be done. Your cRPG god died because it couldn't manage it's way out of a paper bag. So either find a new developer to blindly follow or join Troika in developer heaven. Your posts were one of the reasons I started lurking on this site years ago, I can't believe how your brain goes into hiding everytime the 'T' word comes up.

 

[Greatatlantic]

Games we all know are trash are constantly showing their faces on best seller lists. Some good games, like Torment, become legendary for no one buying them.

That's because Interplay dropped the ball on that game. They didn't bother to advertise it, and when they did, they advertised blades and tits as a selling point rather than an existentialist journey - a niche that certainly has a larger base than Interplay's marketing department can count. It also had a really ugly box that simply turned the game off to many.

I think you just admitted that the amount and quality of advertising has a lot more to do with the "success" of a game then the actual quality. Granted, success must be measured against the production costs of something. Massive big budget products like FFX need to sell a million units to make a profit, while four men teams are wildly successful at 50,000. However, a successful marketing and distribution campaign has a very large input into whether a title will reach its quota.

So, no. Its not good game equals success, simple. No matter what sort of game you are making.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What did you think I was talking about? Bloodlines? No. I was talking about your game.

I realize that. I just disagree with "if it's good, people will play it, and people will buy it". Prelude to Darkness was a good game, better than Spiderweb games, the Codex highly recommended it, the developers mentioned plans for 2 expansions and a sequel, and nothing happened. The d/l size was 70 MB. Granted, there were some bugs, and the interface was far from perfect, but it was minor in comparison to the RPG value of the game. Yet, evidently it didn't sell enough.

Your game is supposed to appeal to a small niche, right? If games like Jets n' Guns and a lot of the other titles Reflexive and Stardock release manage to receive a decent amount of sales, why should your game be any different, especially if it's a good one?

Well, JnG and Reflexive games are action titles, aren't they? Different market, different sell. Stardock is a different story. Anyway, all these games, including GalCiv, are under 50MB. RPGs have more content by default, so that leaves me less space for shiny stuff.

Like I said though, all the reasonable stuff like animation, decent colors, visible equipment , etc is there. I could have done more, but I'm concerned that going to 75-100 MB range would be counterproductive. I have one shot and I prefer to play it safe.

Once again, here is what people have said on this matter: http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 53&start=0.

If someone can't afford 20 dollars for broadband what makes you think he can own a computer?

It's not an abstract 20 that everyone has. It's 20-40/m which is a different matter. That's 240-480 dollars a year. Comparing to the price of a game or a computer that's a lot. Considering that high speed is useless for 90% of people, that's way too much.

There's nothing wrong with his games per se but when it comes to presentation, he's severely limiting his fanbase and that, by definition, is a narrowminded and shortsighted business error

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he doesn't "get it" or maybe he's found his niche and is relying on an army of people with old computers and dial-ups. While his niche isn't necessary my targeted niche, it would be stupid to ignore his experience completely and write it off as stupid.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

While I agree that advertising plays a big role in sales of games, there is also word of mouth. The only thing about word of mouth though is it usually only helps those games that are mainstream and not niche products.

Look at the success of Alien Hominid. I guarantee you those guys have massive sales already and the game's not even out yet. At least not the console version. Sure the flash version was on Newgrounds for alot of people to see, but I know alot of people who don't even touch Newgrounds yet still went there to check out the game because a buddy recommended it. Six million downloads. SIX MILLION! :shock:

And they didn't even advertise.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm afraid you're going to have to spell it out for me? Hating Troika for fucking up may be petty, and childish, but I'm not sure why it's stupid.

Well, being petty and childish is stupid too, but it's mostly stupid because Troika didn't fuck up, not in the "fucked up and went out of business" sense. Also, if you liked their games, why do you think they fucked up? If you didn't like their games, why do you care enough to be pissed at them?

Just because your hero wasn't successfuly at making commercially successful and unique games doesn't mean it can't be done. Your cRPG god died ...

I love it when people who can't argue start using the "u r teh fanboi, lolz" argument. Just because I happened to think that publishers screwed up way more than Troika did, and that publishers are interested only in mainstream dumbed down titles and won't pay for anything else, doesn't fucking mean that I'm a fanboy and Troika was my god. Jesus Fucking Christ!

Anyway, now one more time to actually deal with that bullshit:

Just because your hero wasn't successfuly at making commercially successful and unique games doesn't mean it can't be done.

Examples, please. In the RPG genre, please. Btw, how many decent RPGs you've played lately?

...because it couldn't manage it's way out of a paper bag.

Is that a fact or your own cute theory based on nothing?

Your posts were one of the reasons I started lurking on this site years ago

I'm sorry I couldn't live up to your expectations. Give me another chance! NO MORE FREE RIDES FOR TROIKA!!! Is that better?

I can't believe how your brain goes into hiding everytime the 'T' word comes up.

Yes, because if I disagree with you, I must be WRONG!!!

 

[Volourn]

More proof that VD is nhtohing but a Troika fnaboy. I see it's now the publisher's fault for Troika's demise. That's bullshit and anyone with an IQ over 10 should not. It is 100% Troika's fault. Period. End of discussion. You could list all the mistakes the publishers made. The bottom line is Troika is responsible for Troika. Period.

 

[Elwro]

In Poland you have to pay $20 a month for a 128 kbit connection. A good broadband connection is easily more than $40.
Many people have great computers but bad connection, then. And downloading 3 gigs is not an option for them.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It is 100% Troika's fault. Period. End of discussion.

You know, when you add "period" and "end of discussion" to your bullshit statements that doesn't make them facts. That makes you a moron though, but that's your problem.

The difference between our positions on this matter is that at least I showed some examples of what could have been if publishers didn't screw Troika, and you just repeat the same one-liners like a fucking parrot.

You could list all the mistakes the publishers made. The bottom line is Troika is responsible for Troika. Period.

What a wonderful black-n-white fantasy world you live in, Volourn. Unfortunately, in the real world things, people, companies, projects, etc aren't suspended in vacuum. They are connected, influenced by, depends, affected by tons of other factors. To claim that Troika was the only one responsible for Troika is to claim ignorance, but that's hardly something new, isn't it?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Volly, stop bullying us fanbois around. Leeme lone

 

[M0rphz0rz]

More proof that VD is nhtohing but a Troika fnaboy. I see it's now the publisher's fault for Troika's demise. That's bullshit and anyone with an IQ over 10 should not. It is 100% Troika's fault. Period. End of discussion. You could list all the mistakes the publishers made. The bottom line is Troika is responsible for Troika. Period.

You forgot: Next!

R00fles!

 

[Jed]

Honestly, VD, why do you even bother replying to Volourn? The Troll Bot 5000 has no human logic or feelings--you are wasting braincells everytime you take it seriously enough to respond.

 

[Spazmo]

I dream of a day when Volourn can post in a thread that otherwise hosts intelligent discussion and it will seem as if nobody notices. Arguments will roll on without even pausing to acknowledge the endlessly regurgitated nonsense that Volourn regularly inflicts on us. Maybe then this forum can stop getting hopelessly bogged down in pointless arguments with that idiot.

 

[Volourn]

"To claim that Troika was the only one responsible for Troika is to claim ignorance, but that's hardly something new, isn't it?"

That's right. Running a company is like an extended fmaily. The whole neighbourhood is responsible. R00fles!

Publsihers are responsible for ONE thing - making sure the publisher is successful. Period.

The problem with idiots like you is that you expect publishers to babysit developers. The bottom line is if you sign a contratc that is ufnair to you that's your own damn fualt. Unless you can prove to me that any of three publishers pointed a gun at Troika's proverbial head you will simply not convince me that Troika shouldn't take 100% responsibilty for their demise.

If Troika felt they were being wronged perhaps they should not be greedy and try to make expesnive project and cut back on cost. Or better yet when one decides from having a agme with 50 spells and then that smae game ends up with 200+ spells; of course there's gonna be lots of problems.

Troika failed because of THEIR poor planning, THEIR poor negotitian skills, THEIR poor quality assurance, their poor projecy managment skillz. Not becuase of some Big Bad Evil Publishers Conspiracy tm.

Complete and utter bullshit. And, no, whining about my supposed stupidity or retarddness won't change the facts. Troika is 100% responsible for Troika going out of business. Period.


"Volly, stop bullying us fanbois around. Leeme lone"

LOL

Why are Jed and Spaz trolling in this thread? Unlike them, at least i;m discussing the issue. You guys do relaize you can flame and still be relevantly on issue. Learn how to do so.

 

[DorrieB]

It's just that I don't know anyone who's particularly interested in playing a dumbed down FPS/Action game cum RPG-lite in an idiotic gothic vampire setting.

Perhaps I'm idiotic, but I like the setting a lot. I also know quite a few people who do, and who loved the game, but if they're anything like me they're probably also quite stupid. Nevertheless, we idiots actually bought the game *because* of the idiotic vampire setting, not in spite of it.

My two problems with Bloodlines were: the last third of the game, which was all 'run, run, fight, fight!', and the terrible crash bug after the Society of Leopold. Other than that I loved it, and all in all I'm very glad that I bought it.

I understand that I may be an idiot, but you should realize that not everyone is quite as bright as you.

 

[Kuato]

"
The problem with idiots like you is that you expect publishers to babysit developers. The bottom line is if you sign a contratc that is ufnair to you that's your own damn fualt. Unless you can prove to me that any of three publishers pointed a gun at Troika's proverbial head you will simply not convince me that Troika shouldn't take 100% responsibilty for their demise.

Im not trying to specifically defend Troika, I agree they made their share of fuckups, but publishers do more than babysit some developers, why? well because when they are fronting all the money and bearing all the risk that makes them nervous and this also gives them power to call most of the shots and micro manage as much as they want, not much negociating can go on if the developer isn't bringing any $$$ to the table which just causes problems when they disagree on something.

The publisher funded game developer business model is far from perfect, some might even say its flawed.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Publsihers are responsible for ONE thing - making sure the publisher is successful. Period.

Another one of Volourn's retarded revelations. You should start a cult or something.

The problem with idiots like you is that you expect publishers to babysit developers.

Idiots, eh? Well, the problem with idiots like you is that you can't understand other people's points and then you make some stupid shit up and try to pretend that what was actually said. Learn to read.

The bottom line is if you sign a contratc that is ufnair to you that's your own damn fualt.

Remind me, why trade unions were established? Is the idea of a choice between an unfair contract or no contract so unheard of?

Unless you can prove to me that any of three publishers pointed a gun at Troika's proverbial head you will simply not convince me that Troika shouldn't take 100% responsibilty for their demise.

It's like arguing with a 5 year old.

Or better yet when one decides from having a agme with 50 spells and then that smae game ends up with 200+ spells; of course there's gonna be lots of problems.

So that's why they've failed and had to close! Now I know. Thanks for opening my eyes!

Troika failed because of THEIR poor planning, THEIR poor negotitian skills, THEIR poor quality assurance, their poor projecy managment skillz. Not becuase of some Big Bad Evil Publishers Conspiracy tm.

Is that a FACT? Do you have any proof whatsoever that they went out of business because of all those factors or do you just like to imagine things?

Honestly, VD, why do you even bother replying to Volourn? The Troll Bot 5000 has no human logic or feelings--you are wasting braincells everytime you take it seriously enough to respond.

Well, I'm afraid if we leave him unchecked and unopposed, it will motivate him to post even more idiotic opinions in every thread.

 

[Stark]

It's not an abstract 20 that everyone has. It's 20-40/m which is a different matter. That's 240-480 dollars a year. Comparing to the price of a game or a computer that's a lot. Considering that high speed is useless for 90% of people, that's way too much.

I think this sums up nicely why many of us who, according to Exitium's logic, can afford high speed network (since we got decent pc) but didn't bother getting one. I have high speed network at home but that's because i need to connect to company's network during night for some work. Otherwise I'll probably settle for dial up since I don't find myself needing the extra speed at home. Bottomline, high speed network is nice to have but for many of us unwashed masses, is not a necessity. Given a choice i'd rather spend the extra $20-40 dollars on movies or a new game.

 

[obediah]

I'm afraid you're going to have to spell it out for me? Hating Troika for fucking up may be petty, and childish, but I'm not sure why it's stupid.

Well, being petty and childish is stupid too, but it's mostly stupid because Troika didn't fuck up, not in the "fucked up and went out of business" sense. Also, if you liked their games, why do you think they fucked up? If you didn't like their games, why do you care enough to be pissed at them?

I'm most critical about the things I enjoy the most, or that I feel have the most potential. Why would I waste time listing the faults with the latest crap shooter. When I played ToEE, all I could think about was how unbelievably awesome it would have been if it was polished and included a story. ToEE was a fuck up for Troika - I'm not going to make stupid statements like it was 100% Troika's fault- but it was a fuck up for Troika.

Just because your hero wasn't successfuly at makig commercially successful and unique games doesn't mean it can't be done. Your cRPG god died ...

I love it when people who can't argue start using the "u r teh fanboi, lolz" argument. Just because I happened to think that publishers screwed up way more than Troika did, and that publishers are interested only in mainstream dumbed down titles and won't pay for anything else, doesn't fucking mean that I'm a fanboy and Troika was my god. Jesus Fucking Christ!

The fact that you've made so many posts consisting of "Troika's only mistake was not making dumbed down console games" makes you a fanboy. I can't argue with you because you've adopted this mantra like a fundie at evolution camp. If publishers are only interested in dumbed down mainstream titles, how did ToEE get funded in the first place? Sure Troika was on a short schedule and budget, but that doesn't mean Troika didn't mis-manage their time.

Anyway, now one more time to actually deal with that bullshit:

Just because your hero wasn't successfuly at making commercially successful and unique games doesn't mean it can't be done.

Examples, please. In the RPG genre, please. Btw, how many decent RPGs you've played lately?

Not many. So I'd say the solution is to take a critical look at Troika's mistakes so the next startup will do better. Your solution is that since Troika failed, it's impossible to make hig production RPGs.

...because it couldn't manage it's way out of a paper bag.

Is that a fact or your own cute theory based on nothing?

I'm pretty sure Troilka's admitted that they had management issues. By definition, a rushed byt well managed software products would be missing features, but the existing features would be solid. ToEE was obviously poorly managed.

Your posts were one of the reasons I started lurking on this site years ago

I'm sorry I couldn't live up to your expectations. Give me another chance! NO MORE FREE RIDES FOR TROIKA!!! Is that better?

Between Ex and Volourn raping Troika's corpse, and you're "Troika's only mistake was not making dumb-downed console games" defense, many of us are sharing theories and thoughts on why Troika went under. We realize that publishers are corporate ass holes, and we realize Troika made mistakes as well. You don't have to be correct to participate, but you do have to open you mind a little.

I can't believe how your brain goes into hiding everytime the 'T' word comes up.

Yes, because if I disagree with you, I must be WRONG!!!

You're wrong because you aren't able to look at Troika critically. It's not about being right, it's about thinking about the situation and discussing your findings with others.

 

[Greatatlantic]

Exploring the Information Super Highway, and I came accross this interesting article. It is an analysis of why Looking Glass Studios caved. However, many of the points made were applicaple to the whole industry and could be applied to Troika. Obviously, Troika didn't try to self fund Terra Nova, but there is still some good points made. Check it out.

One of the ways that a producer can reduce their exposure to this risk is to have several projects running at once on an offset release schedule. If all goes very well, each product’s royalties then provide the operating expenses to get later products through their troubles. If one product fails to make money, the revenue stream from the others cushions the company from the blow. A producer needs to have a minimum of three or four active projects for this to work.

Inevitably, there are some catches in this plan. The biggest catch is that nothing guarantees the income cushion: no game is guaranteed to do well. If several games fail to do well at once, the scale of trouble is proportionately worse. It takes a large company to conduct multiple projects at once. Thus, when the company does have to search for extra funding, it needs a much larger infusion of cash than a smaller, single-project company. The risk involved is reduced, but the consequences are worse when things turn sour.

One little caveat there.

http://ttlg.com/articles/lgsclosing.asp

 

[Sol Invictus]

The d/l size was 70 MB. Granted, there were some bugs, and the interface was far from perfect, but it was minor in comparison to the RPG value of the game. Yet, evidently it didn't sell enough.

Do you honestly think that the download size had anything to do with the game not selling?

Well, JnG and Reflexive games are action titles, aren't they? Different market, different sell.

JnG might specialize in shooters but Reflexive does everything from shooters to puzzle games, and probably RPGs if someone would approach them with one.

Stardock is a different story. Anyway, all these games, including GalCiv, are under 50MB. RPGs have more content by default, so that leaves me less space for shiny stuff

Like I said though, all the reasonable stuff like animation, decent colors, visible equipment , etc is there. I could have done more, but I'm concerned that going to 75-100 MB range would be counterproductive. I have one shot and I prefer to play it safe.

I don't get it. If you're so worried about download space why don't you just release them in packs and allow users who already own the 50mb version to upgrade their copies graphically or aurally with 20mb add-on packs for free? Surely you don't think that the graphical addons are going to somehow magically and illogically scare away low bandwidth users, do you?

Once again, here is what people have said on this matter: http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 53&start=0.

It is irrelevent. You sabotaged your own poll by limiting it to dial-up users and opted out of catering to the broadband users when you wrote this disclaimer:
"Disclaimer: This survey is for dial-up people with somewhat older computers. "

Next time why don't you put up a disclaimer saying that the survey is only for people on 14.4kb connections and then show it to me as 'proof' that people aren't interested in downloading files larger than 5mb?

It's not an abstract 20 that everyone has. It's 20-40/m which is a different matter. That's 240-480 dollars a year. Comparing to the price of a game or a computer that's a lot. Considering that high speed is useless for 90% of people, that's way too much.

90% of people? I'd like to know where you got that statistic that you can liberally throw it around like that. You're the one who's thinking in abstracts anyhow. It's $20-40/m and nothing more. Anyone who can afford a computer can afford to pay $240-480/y because it's simply affordable to pay in installments. Paying 5.95 a week for some couch you bought is more affordable than paying $295 in a lump sum and the same goes with internet access. You can just as easily bring up a figure like $2400-4800/10y and gamble a point about how ludicrous internet access fees cost, but you'd be holding snakeyes. Of course it looks like a big number, but you're forgetting to bring a person's wages or salary into the mix so it looks gigantic in comparison to anyone's monthly wage.

In a way it reminds me of those global warming statistics that only detail the rising of temperatures from the 1950s to 2000 of New York City to show the 'drastic changes' in our climate. Never mind the fact that Albany has been cooling by down to 5c during that time or that when you use a statistic like NYC, you have to factor in the urban heat island effect or it's completely meaningless. That's what you're not doing here, VD: you're not factoring in all the necessary aspects (e.g. yearly salary, comparisons to utility bills, phone bills, gas prices and so forth) required to gauge the true impact of broadband costs.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he doesn't "get it" or maybe he's found his niche and is relying on an army of people with old computers and dial-ups. While his niche isn't necessary my targeted niche, it would be stupid to ignore his experience completely and write it off as stupid.

If there's one thing you need to remember it is that his niche belongs to him and not to anybody else so it would be a bad idea to target his niche. Just because it works for him doesn't mean it'll work for you. Take Settlers 5 for instance: BlueByte tried to appeal to Warcraft 3's large niche (betraying the Settlers niche in the process) and it failed them.