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Review GameSpy sez Bloodlines good but not great

errorcode

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Why Bloodlines framerates might not stack up to half-life 2.

1) HL2 has no variable checks ever. You have no skills, no quests, no side missions, nothing.

2) Troika is working with an engine that isn't theirs

3) Valve spent 6 YEARS working on HL2 and spent the last 6 months basically polishing and optimizing it

4) HL2 has very small numbers of complex NPCs in a fight or a medium number of simple NPCs in a fight. I have yet to see a large amount of complex AIs on a screen at any time. It's always a small squad (2-4) of the goons or a pack of headcrabs (3-6).

5) Toika created a new partical effect system for Bloodlines that HL2 does not have.
 

Whipporowill

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Oops Hand, I have basically NO framerate issues is what it's supposed to say. From what I'm getting the impression it's generally people with high-end cards that have the worst framarates? I have a 9600 Pro 128 - a pretty decent card, but not more.
 

Mr. Hand

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errorcode said:
3) Valve spent 6 YEARS working on HL2 and spent the last 6 months basically polishing and optimizing it

Thats basically the difference I think. Bloodlines just seems pretty unoptimized. But
wasn't the game pretty much done some time ago and they were just sitting on their
hands unable to release it before HL2? Wouldnt they have the time to iron out
and polish the game then?
 

Spazmo

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They probably had bigger fish to fry--RPGs, with their complex dialogs and scripts, are usually filled with bugs, so they probably had QA guys going over dialog and such looking for bugs.
 

errorcode

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also, the publisher may have not extended the budget to match the new ship date, so it basically reach point X and then sat waiting for ship, while the team moves on to the ext, budgeted, project.

Just because they had the time to polish it doesn't mean that they had the money or the people do actually do it. Activision could have easily just said no to them spending additional money on QA time and engineer time to optimize beyond what Activision found acceptable for a release candidate.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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errorcode said:
Just because they had the time to polish it doesn't mean that they had the money or the people do actually do it. Activision could have easily just said no to them spending additional money on QA time and engineer time to optimize beyond what Activision found acceptable for a release candidate.

Reminds me of a certain argument Volourn and I had in another thread. :P

From what I understood though, they did work on ironing out bugs while waiting for the release. It's quite apparent from some of the reports that they worked on dialogue bugs as Spazmo pointed out, rather than graphical engine bugs. One thing people have to remember is that you cannot playtest your game on EVERY possible combination of systems out there. There will always be conflicting problems for some people when a game is first released. Like Ortchel's problems he's apparently having. What pisses me off about it is alot of these people just whine and moan rather than do something about it like reporting it to the company along with their system specs.
 

HanoverF

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MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Sounds like Troika's testing division screws them again, they really need to hire some fresh new people *cough* and fire those lazy punks who let all these bugs slip and apperantly spend all their time and effort telling them not to make turn based games...
 

Whipporowill

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Seriously - we're not talking bug fest here. Some isolated bugs and an unoptimized engine which for some causes some gameplay lag, not many has reported an unstable game or random crashes, dissapearing xp or items - which would be considered as major.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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Actually, Ortchel's rant is the only one I've seen to report anything major. But it just seems to me he got something up his ass and decided to take it out on Troika.

Everyone else it seems just has framerate issues due to certain cards. Maybe rolling back drivers for the cards or something might work.

Other than that, I really only seen minor complaints here and there on other boards. Nothing gamekilling though.
 

errorcode

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HanoverF said:
Sounds like Troika's testing division screws them again, they really need to hire some fresh new people *cough* and fire those lazy punks who let all these bugs slip and apperantly spend all their time and effort telling them not to make turn based games...
most QA is handled by the publsiher. Most developer have like one to three testers on site who do the testing for them, which usually includes tool testing and such. For an RPG there is alot of ground to cover and the developer probably has to rely on the publisher side test teams to cover alot of that ground for them.

And from working with alot of publisher test teams, most of them are monkies i wouldn't trust to match their socks let alone test a game.

Just my embittered opinion though...
 

Shevek

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My only beef with the game:

I have to run it in windowed mode to see anything (-windowed in the command line).

Even running it like this though, the game runs very well with only the occaisional stutter. My pc isnt a beast either - AMD 1.8 ghz and a Geforce3 ti200.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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Shevek said:
I have to run it in windowed mode to see anything (-windowed in the command line).

What do you mean "to see anything"? Is it like all white in fullscreen or something? Reason I ask is because I'm working with the same card you have.
 

Shevek

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All black. Im willing to bet its not the card though. My monitor is some ghetto generic thing and its given me some issues in the past.
 

Ortchel

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Like Ortchel's problems he's apparently having. What pisses me off about it is alot of these people just whine and moan rather than do something about it like reporting it to the company along with their system specs.

Actually, Ortchel's rant is the only one I've seen to report anything major. But it just seems to me he got something up his ass and decided to take it out on Troika.

Otaku_Hanzo, quit picking on me! Though you're partially right, I'm really very fed up with how almost all PC releases are sent to stores BROKEN, this should be unacceptable and I shouldn't have to report anything to anyone, or have any contact with the company if I don't want to. Imagine if 90% of the food you bought was rotten, would you write the meat industry a letter explaining the various diseases you've contracted from their carrion? No, you'd just stay the fuck away.

I've been playing games for fifteen years and I remember a time before patches and all this other bullshit. I dont think my annoyance is uncalled for, in fact, it should be expected when a game is released with these issues. Yet everyone seems so eager to latch onto Bloodlines (so to speak) they're willing to look past these bugs (which I've hardly taken issue with, in comparison to it's other charms).

Yeah, sure, I'm a grump, but I'm not biased, and I gave Bloodlines an honest chance. Also, I've said before that once it's patched I'll give it another chance, for the time being though, it's a bugged mess and I'm not going near it. You'd think Troika would learn from all it's past broken games, but I guess this kind of indifferent stance to quality is par for the course these days.

Now take that chip off your shoulder, you.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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Hmmm... I had that problem once when running the original Halflife on my Acer back in the day. All I did was bump the resolution down on my monitor and it sort of fixed the problem. I was able to see then, but it was all off to the side so I would have to adjust it everytime I played the game.

Maybe if you changed res on your monitor or possibly refresh rates. Also, can go get updated drivers for your monitor?
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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Ortchel said:
and I shouldn't have to report anything to anyone, or have any contact with the company if I don't want to

But see, it's that kind of think that causes slowdown on getting patches or, even worse, patches not solving particular problems. Your gripes are something I'm not seeing as being common gripes from other people. That leads me to believe it's a conflict with something in your system. The best thing you can do is contact Troika and let them know what's going on as well as your system specs. What video card are you using? What kind of cpu and motherboard do you have? What kind of CDRom drive do you have? Etc.

Yes, back in the day there was really not much need for patches. But also back in the day, systems were a lot more simpler than they are now. Nowadays most gamers usually build their own system, or are constantly upgrading this and that to something else. Conflicts are bound to happen, therefore patches have become more common and necessary. Sure, sometimes it's due to laziness on the QA team, or from lack of proper funds to use for testing purposes. But that's simply not the case all the time.

Oh, and I wasn't picking on your, per say. Just making observations. ;)
 

Deckard

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Mr. Hand said:
Yeah mate, I have the some-number-or-the-other point 11 drivers. Those are the
latest Catalyst ones available if im not mistaken.

Actually there are 4.12 beta drivers, which are supposed to work a bit better with Half-Life 2. Maybe you give it a try with Bloodlines, but i have no idea if they´re useful though.
You can dl them here:
http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4701.html
 

Deckard

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Mr. Hand said:
If you registered solely to tell me that, then sure Ill give those beta drivers a spin.
:D

Im a long time reader, and it was about time i registered, although i think i wont post that much. But im glad to help out ;)
 
Self-Ejected

dojoteef

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Well, here's my take on things. I got the game today and I installed it, and then downloaded and installed all the latest drivers to make sure I was up to date on drivers. Then I spent half an hour configuring and testing my system to make sure Bloodlines ran the best, while still having the best graphics my system could handle. I guess I should mention my system specs, they are: 3Ghz P4, 1GB Ram, Radeon 9800Pro, onboard sound (on the motherboard), and two 10K RPM drives in a RAID0 configuration.

Because of my fast hard drives, the game load times are extremely quick (in fact a lot of the times I don't have enough time to read the tips they flash up during the loads). Despite the fast load times, I've got the game running at 800x600, but I've got things like anti-aliasing on (I found I had better graphics this way, instead of upping it to 1024x768 and having AA disabled). With that all said, the game definitely has bugs. I've had the game crash to desktop a couple times (not entirely certain why), and there must be a memory leak because after a while of playing (about 3-4 hours), the game got SUPER sluggish, it was like watching a slideshow.

Now I haven't run into any showstopping bugs, but I have to say Troika is really starting to lose me here. The problem is all the little things add up. I've had problem with the physics in the game (somehow my character model will sometimes "merge" with another object that has physics and it gets stuck to me and makes it hard to walk) I've had graphics issues like texture problems. I've seen quite a number of AI problems related to pathfinding (characters getting stuck on each other and not moving but still doing the walking animation while the models jerk around for a bit), the enemy AI doing stupid stuff like not attacking me while I'm standing right in front of them. There's this annoying sound problem, where the music is so much louder than the people talking that I have to put the subtitles on, but the last line of text for any subtitle is missing. So if a person just says one line, I don't see it. Oh, and the damned footsteps are getting on my FUCKING NERVES! They keep on going for a few seconds after I stop moving and they are just plain annoying. The list goes on, but like I said it's all minor stuff.

What gets me is, it makes Troika seem like a company that can't put out a polished game. This one's simply unpolished just like ToEE. This is a trend that doesn't bode well for Troika. I don't think it's too much to require that a game be released in a polished form. I know some bugs are hard to catch, and some are so well concealed that they pretty much won't be caught until the game goes out to the general public, but most of these bugs I'm running into are inexcusable. I can see why gamespy gave the game a 4/5. In it's current state I would as well. Regardless of how good the RPG element is (and so far I've found it to be AMAZING), the rest of the stuff just brings the whole game down a notch. It's like having to sift through a layer of grim just to get the good stuff. I hope that they can get their act together.

I really liked Arcanum and thought of it only second to PS:T and Fallout for the well crafted RPG story. I haven't been able to finish ToEE, simply because I don't feel like trudging through all the bugs (namely for the fact that the first party I wanted to play was Chaotic Evil and I still can't play that party even with the latest patch, it just crashes the game). So if Troika's next game is just as buggy as this Bloodlines, I think I'll wait till it hits the bargain bin before buying it. That way I can still have the fun of playing a great RPG, while not paying so much for an unfinished product. It's just like what seperates a B flick classic from being a mainstream classic, it lacks polish.

Maybe all this is because Troika hasn't caught a break and been able to sell games well enough to make money, so I hope they do make a lot of money on Bloodlines if that means they can put out a less buggy game in the future. It's just a shame that a company that seems to have such a bright future to lose it to mainstream gamers.

Troll/Flame me if you want. I don't really care because I'm just one person stating their opinion. I will however be sending a list of the issues I find with the game to Troika (hopefully they can get a patch out before my next play through of the game, because I'll undoubtedly have to play it more than once simply for the amount of choices they offer, like 5 endings :)). I suggest everyone who plays the game do the same thing, and who knows if they put a patch out, it might fix all my troubles!
 

Ortchel

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Not to be a "me too!" asshole, but I've had all the same problems, the exact same ones.

Didn't I warn you before you bought it? :wink:

Edit: Oh, yeah, now I remember why I came back to check the thread. You might wanna be careful with that beta, notice hows it's almost 10 megs smaller than the last version? I've had problems before with their betas, problems that the previous version fixed, so check it out and make sure everything is kosher.
 

Mr. Teatime

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Yeah. I mean I've played the game for about 3 hours, spotted bugs within first 30 minutes of playing. they're really not that hard to spot at all. it's really holding troika back.
 

Whipporowill

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That's some odd issues you have their dojoteef, plenty of which I hadn't previously heard. I haven't gotten that memory leak you're talking about - played the game for 10 hours straight first day (and that even before I got an extra 512 ram). I suggest you post that over in the tech forum at http://bloodlines.dilapidation.com - as it's the closest to an official board there is at m.

Merging with objects? Eh, sounds freaky. I remember getting stuck while jumping onto something and had to jiggle loose once or twice, but that's about it.

Only obvious bugs are some dialogue glitches (had one - unknown if it's random, as other have reported others were I've been fine), some texture glitches in the cutscenes, and generic townsperson ai botching at times. This last one has only been a guy veering for another passenger wound up staring into a telephone pole for me, nothing major.

Just noteworthy that I can play the game at full aa and top settings at 1024*768*32 on a comp with less "oomph" than yours without any performance issues whatsoever . 2,66 - 1 GB Ram, 9600 Pro. People have even said they're running it fine on minimum specs...
 

Mr. Hand

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Ortchel: Will do mate thanks for the heads up.

And dojoteef Im right with you. You just described my experience of the game verbatim.
 
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Mr. Hand said:
undead dolphin hacker said:
Here's an AMAZING technical hint:

IF THE GAME STUTTERS ON THE VOICES, MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, YOU SHOULD ADJUST YOUR SOUND SETTINGS.

Fucking. Morons.

Maybe I have, and Ive all the latest drivers installed?
If you know jack shit about a topic at hand, here's a hint: Shut the fuck up.

Here's a hint, you indolent, inbred, assfucking faggot newbie turd:

Environmental Audio was the leading cause of the sound stutters and the memory leaks, I've discovered. Turn it off and it should fix most problems.

SUCK IT DOWN, FAGGOT ASSLICKING BITCH.
 

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