Ghost Recon vs Rainbow Six

[Suchy]

True, though the first one was somewhat milsimish, just not in the same depth.

 

[unfairlight]

Different games with different ideas behind them. GR was more focused on squad level tactics and stealth.

 

[zool]

Re: SWAT 3, what's the best mod to use?

definitely the last resort mod for running it on modern systems.

enhancements 1.5 by finn

http://induktio.net/swat3/Multi.html

after you play it vanilla you might like to use the RTRT weapons mod. Realistic, high quality weapon assets unlike most gun mods in the swat 3 community which are just ridiculous.

For higher quality officer models, I would recommend BBE "real element" . These are good quality accurate models. SWAT is very easily modded so you can play around and mix and match shit. Most of them are worthless IMO.

Thanks. Wouldn't you recommend to use the RTRT weapons mod and BBE "real element" as well on a first playthrough? Probably won't have time to replay it either...

 

[Plisken]

Re: SWAT 3, what's the best mod to use?

definitely the last resort mod for running it on modern systems.

enhancements 1.5 by finn

http://induktio.net/swat3/Multi.html

after you play it vanilla you might like to use the RTRT weapons mod. Realistic, high quality weapon assets unlike most gun mods in the swat 3 community which are just ridiculous.

For higher quality officer models, I would recommend BBE "real element" . These are good quality accurate models. SWAT is very easily modded so you can play around and mix and match shit. Most of them are worthless IMO.

Thanks. Wouldn't you recommend to use the RTRT weapons mod and BBE "real element" as well on a first playthrough? Probably won't have time to replay it either...

sure its not a drastic change.

 

[Plisken]

Different games with different ideas behind them. GR was more focused on squad level tactics and stealth.

i would also say GR has aged better and is infinitely more accessible to people than OFP is.

 

[mwnn85]

Flashpoint all day long for me. It's got to be played through - no excuses.

It was stunning when it came out. The player might seem a bit rigid now, it's dated graphically and the AI is aimbot but it's not as fast as Red Storm's games.
Massive islands, infantry combat, ground vehicles, air combat and the order by numbers system. Always liked the blacked out gun sights and how lethal everything is.
1985 and Resistance are both superb campaigns; it feels great to win a mission in the latter without taking large losses.
Full of memorable music too!

They issued an updated installer (1.99) which might run better than the old disk based install (1.96) for Windows users.
The Linux version plays smoothly at 60 fps with all the settings cranked up except Very High texture detail which always caused a bit of stutter. I'm just using High and can't see the difference.
All the sliders in the config tool are on full. Auto drop down off. 8192x8192 textures, etc.

Arma A Gold and Arma 2 are so so for me. Cold War Rearmed 2 is worth a look but it isn't an exact recreation.
They finally made much needed technical and QoL improvements in ArmA 3 but it didn't quite hit the same mark.
Maybe it's semi-futuristic setting. The NATO guns felt weak against the CSAT body armor.
The campaign ends abruptly and the free roam segments add nothing of value. The dumb protagonist isn't likable either.

Ghost Recon felt like it was full of invisible walls by comparison and an exercise in pixel hunting. It's poor of GOG to not provide both expansions - search for an image of the Gold edition instead.
Rogue Spear is memorable for the plane hijacking mission and a bug planting mission where you have to remain completely undetected.
Raven Shield used the Unreal engine so it plays a lot better. I always liked the way you could open a door in increments.
I always found that the Red Storm games played themselves thanks to the planning stage and lightning quick aimbot AI both friendly and foe.

Hidden and Dangerous 2 is fantastic, both single player and online.

Most of the Novalogic games are crap really. I did love playing Joint Operations online but the expansion ruined it.

I think SWAT 4 is overrated.

 

[unfairlight]

Arma 2 and 3 AI is retarded. Operation Flashpoint AI was always better, even with the Codemasters games.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

I had tremendous fun playing Swat 3 solo. Rubber bullets + smoke to arrest everyone. Super hard. I remember shouting "get down and throw your weapon" at everyone all the farking time.

 

[octavius]

How about Hidden&Dangerous vs Ghost Recon?

I've had H&D deluxe edition collecting dust for over a decade, but the CD worked perfectly when I installed it just now.
Taking it for a test ride, before RTFM, the game is a bit intimidating with extreme micro-management of each indicidual soldier's equipment.

 

[Plisken]

How about Hidden&Dangerous vs Ghost Recon?

I've had H&D deluxe edition collecting dust for over a decade, but the CD worked perfectly when I installed it just now.
Taking it for a test ride, before RTFM, the game is a bit intimidating with extreme micro-management of each indicidual soldier's equipment.

i dont know about H&D1, but H&D2 is fuckin quality and more interesting than GR imo.

it is however a lot more stealth orientated.

 

[unfairlight]

H&D2 did some things worse than GR, primarily ordering around your squad and the poor mission design. I can't really decide if one or the other is worse since they aren't similar enough.

 

[bussinrounds]

Arma 2 and 3 AI is retarded. Operation Flashpoint AI was always better, even with the Codemasters games.

Enemy AI in Dragon Rising was beyond retarded compared to Cold War Crisis. Especially if you're at a fair distance away.. they're fucking clueless and just stand there or drop to the ground spinning around like idiots.

H&D2 did some things worse than GR, primarily ordering around your squad and the poor mission design. I can't really decide if one or the other is worse since they aren't similar enough.

Bullshit. Mission design/variety is great in H&D 2.

 

[Falksi]

Fucking loved Rainbow Six Vegas on the 360. Class game.

 

[unfairlight]

Bullshit. Mission design/variety is great in H&D 2.

Yeah, the great missions in the game, like all but 1 of the 5 mission long North Africa campaign (2, if you are being generous), the mission in Burma where you have to assault a hill with a infinite amount of japanese in fog, Babes in the Wood, a mission that is literally impossible to complete on the hardest difficulty because the AI doesn't surrender, Lighthouse, fucking Blade Dancer where you have to go through an infinite amount of Germans with a billion mission triggers that make them appear on rooftops and other cancer places of the sort and the two "kill everyone" missions in the Czechia campaign. There's good missions, but so many of the missions are god awful on hard or above difficulty.

 

[mwnn85]

I tend to remember the game for the maps as much as anything.
Plus it features some scuba segments which would later get added to ArmA 3.
To get the most out of the game you need a team member with extremely high stealth skills.

Never had an issue clearing the buildings in Blade Dancer but the tank spawn at the end was always a pain.
I was never all that impressed with how the game handled tanks; you seemed to have to hit them in just the right spot to get em. It's not like Men of War where you can disable them. It was kill them or nothing.
The non-surrender bug on Babes in the Wood was always a funny one.
Multiplayer was always a lot of fun, particularly on the large town map from the Czechia campaign.

The best campaign is probably the first arctic campaign.
Managing to sneak into the base and getting a uniform without alerting the base is a lot more interesting than simply shooting the place up.
It culminates in an nice attack on the frozen base & uboat.

Didn't really like the African campaign thanks to all the tanks. The whole campaign is a bit stupid really - attacking an airfield by driving head on in a jeep? The horrible canyon map, etc.
Burma was pretty horrible too.

Seawolf is short but sweet. Mining the destroyer and capturing the enigma machine.
I didn't mind Operation Challenger. The expansion probably had a few good levels - can't really remember the rest.

It wasn't a perfect game as the LS3D engine was a bit primitive. The world feels a bit static; you couldn't even enter half of the buildings on some maps or look through the windows.
Animations tended to look a bit stiff or wooden and line of sight seemed a bit wonky too.
It didn't really work as an action game due to how easily your squad can die - mainly to tanks or explosions - and yet a lot of the scenarios are straight up action.

They should of focused on what the game did best; stealthy all infantry missions.
Always hoped for a third game which would perfect the formula but it never came...

 

[SniperHF]

I had been meaning to fire up Ghost Recon since it has been a long time since I last played it. So I installed it and all that and gave it a spin.

I was a little underwhelmed, especially in comparison to R6 which I have replayed many times. The main problem with GR is on the highest difficulty setting (and probably medium too) you basically have to do everything yourself. Sure you can order your guys around and have them cover you a bit, but for the most part you're taking all the shots. It's also very clumsy to use the map to order your teams around.

Don't get me wrong, the AI is still dumb in R6 BUT given the close quarters nature (fewer places to get shot from) and the pre-planning phase where you can somewhat compensate it makes the game play a ton more smoothy.

I used to love playing Ghost Recon in Co-op, With a human running the other squad it's a lot better. R6 1-3 are much more enjoyable solo.

 

[unfairlight]

I was never all that impressed with how the game handled tanks; you seemed to have to hit them in just the right spot to get em. It's not like Men of War where you can disable them. It was kill them or nothing.

Somewhere around the back usually decreases the amount of rockets you need to kill them by a lot. Sometimes it even oneshots. Bazooka is shit, Panzer is way more powerful.

Didn't really like the African campaign thanks to all the tanks. The whole campaign is a bit stupid really - attacking an airfield by driving head on in a jeep?
Burma was pretty horrible too.

Agree on first, disagree on second. Burma's second mission (hill assault) was total trash but first mission was good, albeit short and with bad AI pathing.

 

[Plisken]

I had been meaning to fire up Ghost Recon since it has been a long time since I last played it. So I installed it and all that and gave it a spin.

I was a little underwhelmed, especially in comparison to R6 which I have replayed many times. The main problem with GR is on the highest difficulty setting (and probably medium too) you basically have to do everything yourself. Sure you can order your guys around and have them cover you a bit, but for the most part you're taking all the shots. It's also very clumsy to use the map to order your teams around.

Don't get me wrong, the AI is still dumb in R6 BUT given the close quarters nature (fewer places to get shot from) and the pre-planning phase where you can somewhat compensate it makes the game play a ton more smoothy.

I used to love playing Ghost Recon in Co-op, With a human running the other squad it's a lot better. R6 1-3 are much more enjoyable solo.

its an unfortunate mainstay of tactical shooter genre, developers giving seemingly no thought to friendly AI.

Its not like we're even asking for much. It doesnt need to be highly intelligent or 1:1 simulationist with some shit pulled from a field manual, just let me fucking have squaddies that will actually seek cover when under fire, and for gods sake make a script for clearing buildings so they actually look and clear the entire room instead of walking in like a lemming.

I think the best we've gotten so far is the brothers in arms series, but that uses a lot of gamey contrivances that help the AI look less stupid than they actually are.

 

[SniperHF]

I think the best we've gotten so far is the brothers in arms series, but that uses a lot of gamey contrivances that help the AI look less stupid than they actually are.

I like the BiA games quite a bit, especially Earned in Blood. They put you in some nasty situations sometimes and it was great trying to fight your way through. There's one mission either in RTH30 or EiB where you're facing a horde of veteran Wehrmacht armed with STGs at a blown up church. Great stuff. Hell's Highway went too popamole with sticky cover and increased accuracy (and cinematics) but it was still fun. MP was a blast surprisingly for a cheap throw in with no dedicated servers. Also I really liked how they handled squad based tank fighting.

 

[funkadelik]

Delta Force was one of my first online FPS's. Fucking loved that shit.

RS3 and SWAT 4 were quintessential games for me and my school friends.

The good old days.

 

[unfairlight]

PtoPOnline posted some prototype footage of Ghost Recon Future Soldier.

 

[Carrion]

How about Hidden&Dangerous vs Ghost Recon?

H&D is an undisputable classic, very ambitious and groundbreaking when it was released, but it's pretty rough around the edges and has some really weird bugs. Ghost Recon is more polished and focused, not really straying all that far from its Rainbow Six roots, whereas H&D has a lot more variety in its missions, including all sorts of cool things you can think about WW2-era commando operations, from rescuing prisoners of war to sabotaging enemy bases and from stealing armored vehicles to sneaking through enemy areas in disguise. In the end they're pretty different games, but both are definitely worth checking out.

Never played a whole lot of H&D 2, but I didn't like how they moved away from the realism of the first game (or at least that's the impression I got, it's been a while since I played it).

Rogue Spear is memorable for — — a bug planting mission where you have to remain completely undetected.

There are two of them, and they're outright sadistic.

 

[mwnn85]

Maybe I got lucky - superman Ding Chavez plus a heartbeat sensor seemed to work well.
Sadly I'm not even sure if any of those classic Rainbow Six games work on a modern Windows system; there's a decent chance they might work properly through WINE. The installers might even be 16 bit =X
And they'll obviously lack many modern conveniences/improvements like proper widescreen support, etc.

I should probably give Ghost Recon another look. Widescreen support is Vert - (without some hacks) which chops off the bottom of the screen.
There's also that huge 10GB mod Heroes Unleashed too - real dedication - they've been working on that years!

Shitty Ubi Soft won't release the expansions over at GOG for Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six, etc.
I've still kept Pandora Tomorrow and Chaos Theory on disk. (StarForce)
No Rogue Spear over there either.


Hidden & Dangerous Deluxe was released for free several years ago - give that a try that before buying at GOG.
Personally I played the sequel first so I thought it was a bit simplistic and blocky.
The sequel still looks gorgeous.

 

[Cadmus]

Never played any rainbow six.
Swat 3 and 4 are top of the class, totall recommend playing them.
Op flashpoint is a watershed title you need to play it.
Ghost recon 1 bored me, warfighter 2 bored me but warfighter 1 i thought was brilliant ( if youre into the murican special forces tom clancy porn)
Hd2 is also brilliant and unique but to be honest most of the missions really are fucking annoying.

 

[unfairlight]

disagree on GR1 but otherwise agree entirely