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Going back to PnP - suggestions?

Atomkilla

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Been ages since I've played any tabletop RPG and I've been out of the loop for quite some time too. My last attempt at grouping some friends for a DnD game was an utter failure, and my last purchase (4th edition "red box") was...disappointing, to say at least.

Simple question here is this - if I wanted to get my friends to play the game, most of them complete noobs with a fantasy hard-on, where should I start?
I got some recommendations for Basic Fantasy RPG, which is also free to download on their website, but that's pretty much all I know.

Keep in mind though - it's been quite a few years since I've played anything tabletop, and even then I wasn't much of an active player - so to put it simple, consider me a noob here. Ideas and suggestions?
 

Servo

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My group still plays D&D 3.5. There's no reason why you can't. You don't even need to buy anything if you just use the d20 rules.

If you go to a hobby store they'll tell you to get Pathfinder, which is sometimes called D&D 3.75. It changes some stuff up but nothing too drastically.
 

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Get Pathfinder. It balances out 3.5 a bit. AD&D is also a good idea since it is probably easier to get into, less rules and much more simplistic combat - altho of course you can ignore the miniature combat in pathfinder / 3.5 either.

Plus AD&D has some really cool settings.
 

Alex

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Been ages since I've played any tabletop RPG and I've been out of the loop for quite some time too. My last attempt at grouping some friends for a DnD game was an utter failure, and my last purchase (4th edition "red box") was...disappointing, to say at least.

Simple question here is this - if I wanted to get my friends to play the game, most of them complete noobs with a fantasy hard-on, where should I start?
I got some recommendations for Basic Fantasy RPG, which is also free to download on their website, but that's pretty much all I know.

Keep in mind though - it's been quite a few years since I've played anything tabletop, and even then I wasn't much of an active player - so to put it simple, consider me a noob here. Ideas and suggestions?

Well, Basic Fantasy is a pretty good game but I think we could help better if we knew what kind of game you enjoyed, and how the game sessions you liked the most looked like. Some people have already mentioned D&D 3.5, or one of its variants. Personally, I can't stomach it, and would recommend either the 1st or 2nd edition, but for the recommendation to make any sense, I need to know a bit more about what kind of game you like. I mean, if you really enjoy making character builds, then third edition D&D is a pretty good option, and 1st edition would be a lousy choice.
 

Atomkilla

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My group still plays D&D 3.5. There's no reason why you can't. You don't even need to buy anything if you just use the d20 rules.

If you go to a hobby store they'll tell you to get Pathfinder, which is sometimes called D&D 3.75. It changes some stuff up but nothing too drastically.


I've been getting recommendations for 3.5 and/or Pathfinder on some other places, but most folks seemed to point out that it was...costly. Then again, nobody mentioned free d20 rules. You're referring to the Hypertext d20 site?

Get Pathfinder. It balances out 3.5 a bit. AD&D is also a good idea since it is probably easier to get into, less rules and much more simplistic combat - altho of course you can ignore the miniature combat in pathfinder / 3.5 either.

Plus AD&D has some really cool settings.


I thought AD&D was fully discontinued. You're referring to the 2nd edition, right?
Googling a bit shows there are reprints, but I imagine I can get them free from other places.




I assume that if I decide to get the actual books/pdf files I should aim for PHB, DMG, MM and...what else?


Well, Basic Fantasy is a pretty good game but I think we could help better if we knew what kind of game you enjoyed, and how the game sessions you liked the most looked like. Some people have already mentioned D&D 3.5, or one of its variants. Personally, I can't stomach it, and would recommend either the 1st or 2nd edition, but for the recommendation to make any sense, I need to know a bit more about what kind of game you like. I mean, if you really enjoy making character builds, then third edition D&D is a pretty good option, and 1st edition would be a lousy choice.


To be frank, in most of the games I've played I was the DM. I personally always focused on making quests and NPCs as detailed as possible, creating dungeons etc. - the regular stuff. My favorite was making the story, because that was what I always felt was best suited for me.
People whom I've played with were varied - some had a keen interest in every game's aspect, from character building to "what color is that apple on the table" - while some were there purely for the grinding.

As for me...well, as long as I can create a viable quest with choices and consequences, I'm all right. And be able to add a few house rules.


The reason why I got recommended for Basic Fantasy is because it is, well, basic. An usual event is that a buddy of mine who has an interest in a game has contacted me and asked me about trying out a tabletop RPG - I show him a huge Player's Handbook, his enthusiasm quickly disappears. I point him to a couple of websites which can help, and I offer help too, he's already lost all the interest. I hope you get what I mean.
BF seems to be simple enough for noobs, which we essentially are, and is not intimidating given that is a one book with most of the essential stuff. At least, that's what I've been told on some other forums by people who had a similar problem as I did - and that is, essentially, keeping other players' interest in the beginning. Once they're hooked, it is easy, trouble is getting them hooked (which is what happened to me and 4th edition Starter Set...what a piece of shit that was. Box art was nice though.)


Pathfinder took all the fun out of it. It is still easily broken, but you don't have the, uh, variety. Was always fun trying crazy combinations in 3.5 and try to make them viable - keeps your DM sharp.



What do you mean by "easily broken"?
 

Servo

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Get Pathfinder. It balances out 3.5 a bit. AD&D is also a good idea since it is probably easier to get into, less rules and much more simplistic combat - altho of course you can ignore the miniature combat in pathfinder / 3.5 either.

You can always pick and choose the rules you like. If you don't have a lot of experience DMing, it might be good to start out with basic combat rules, and add in attacks of opportunity, flanking, and all that other jazz later. That goes for both Pathfinder and 3.5.

I've been getting recommendations for 3.5 and/or Pathfinder on some other places, but most folks seemed to point out that it was...costly. Then again, nobody mentioned free d20 rules. You're referring to the Hypertext d20 site?

That's one place where you can find the d20 rules. It's OGL so any number of sites could host that content.

I thought AD&D was fully discontinued. You're referring to the 2nd edition, right?

http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/

I assume that if I decide to get the actual books/pdf files I should aim for PHB, DMG, MM and...what else?

That will be plenty enough to keep you occupied. The PHB is all that's really necessary. The DMG will give you tips for DMing and a lot of flavor text. The MM is handy but again you can get that stuff from d20.

To be frank, in most of the games I've played I was the DM. I personally always focused on making quests and NPCs as detailed as possible, creating dungeons etc. - the regular stuff. My favorite was making the story, because that was what I always felt was best suited for me.

You can do this in any RPG although some rules lend themselves to this type of gameplay more than others. It sounds like you might really enjoy World of Darkness, but if your players prefer fantasy and number crunching they might not like it.

I show him a huge Player's Handbook, his enthusiasm quickly disappears.

Maybe choose better friends?
 

Gregz

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Been ages since I've played any tabletop RPG

Tabletop has a specific meaning (see below), what you want is referred to as PnP (pen and paper)

pic1003956_md.jpg


http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-print-play-boardgame-thread.69405/

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/tabletop-miniature-wargaming.64547/
 
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Alex

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(...snip)
To be frank, in most of the games I've played I was the DM. I personally always focused on making quests and NPCs as detailed as possible, creating dungeons etc. - the regular stuff. My favorite was making the story, because that was what I always felt was best suited for me.
People whom I've played with were varied - some had a keen interest in every game's aspect, from character building to "what color is that apple on the table" - while some were there purely for the grinding.

As for me...well, as long as I can create a viable quest with choices and consequences, I'm all right. And be able to add a few house rules.

Well, pretty much any game will allow you that, though some might give you some good tips and whatnot. For instance, I really like the Apocalypse World* game. Its rules are a bit weird, and they focus too much on the story aspect. Still, it has some very good ideas of how to deal with aspects that frequently are left out of the game, as well as good game mastering guidelines. The Dungeon Master's Guide in the 1st edition of AD&D has many good hints as well, and interesting tables and classifications to help you run the world. Hackmaster has a very good item list (though it can get a little silly) and pricing guidelines, something a lot of games nowadays forget about.

The reason why I got recommended for Basic Fantasy is because it is, well, basic. An usual event is that a buddy of mine who has an interest in a game has contacted me and asked me about trying out a tabletop RPG - I show him a huge Player's Handbook, his enthusiasm quickly disappears. I point him to a couple of websites which can help, and I offer help too, he's already lost all the interest. I hope you get what I mean.
BF seems to be simple enough for noobs, which we essentially are, and is not intimidating given that is a one book with most of the essential stuff. At least, that's what I've been told on some other forums by people who had a similar problem as I did - and that is, essentially, keeping other players' interest in the beginning. Once they're hooked, it is easy, trouble is getting them hooked (which is what happened to me and 4th edition Starter Set...what a piece of shit that was. Box art was nice though.)
(snip...)

Well, whenever someone wants a simpler fantasy game, I like to suggest the Advanced Fighting Fantasy books. There is a new edition, but you can also find the old Dungeoneer, Blacksand!, Out of The Pit, Titan and The Riddling Reaver books around. These are all made using the world of those old Fighting Fantasy books, so if you happened to like those, it is a good option, I think. The system is very simplistic. But if you have played some of the old games, you will probably know how to make a cool game out of it.

Tunnels and Trolls is also a good option. The underlying game is simple, but can easily be extended with hard rules so as to make it more interesting. Basically, a skill in that game can do anything the GM decides it can do. But if you decide to lay down some more strict guidelines, you can add complexity to the game as you go along. There are several ready made adventures to support it too.

Burning Wheel is actually a bit complex, but its complexity is modularized. First, it presents the basic dice rolling mechanic. Then it adds some basic concepts, such as beliefs and skills. Finally, it adds complex systems such as the melee combat or the ranged combat system, or the spell casting rules. You can add in those systems as you like, so you can start the game simple and add more complexity later on. The systems presented in the game are pretty cool, though I would recommend you don't give it much of a thought when the book tells you that this must be done this or that way. One of its most interesting aspects is the lifepath character creation, where you determine your PC's life up to that point, and it gives you skills, attributes, resources and what not. It adds a lot of character to the PCs, and make them seem to actually have come from their cultures.

*This is a post apocalyptic game, not a fantasy one. Though its game mastering hints can be useful in any game, possibly with some adapting. There is a fantasy game based on it, called Dungeon World, but I wouldn't really recommend it.
 

Atomkilla

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You can do this in any RPG although some rules lend themselves to this type of gameplay more than others. It sounds like you might really enjoy World of Darkness, but if your players prefer fantasy and number crunching they might not like it.

I'm vaguely familiar with Werewolf the Apocalypse, as I had a huge boner on it when I was a kid, but never actually played it. Hm...might look into that actually.

Thanks for the OSRIC link.

I show him a huge Player's Handbook, his enthusiasm quickly disappears.

Maybe choose better friends?

I wish I could. Majority of these are spoiled douchebags whose fantasy "knowledge" doesn't go farther than LotR films, GoT and Warcraft. There are exceptions though, but are far and few in between.

RPG player population around here is generally low, not to mention PnP stuff. There are a few DnD groups that I know of, but most of them fall into the category of pure dungeon crawling. DC is okay, I guess, but not my thing.




You're right, sorry. Didn't actually realize the mistake. Editing title now, will check links later.



Edit:

Alex


Sorry, you typed your post while I was typing mine. Will check it out ASAP
 

Gregz

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This is a pretty good ranked and comprehensive PnP list:

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/greatest-pen-and-paper-rpg_s-v1

The only important game it's missing, which is damn fun, is:

Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game (1987, West End Games)

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-The-Roleplaying-Game/dp/0874310652

These rules are simple, and they are grand. This game perfectly captures the spirit of the original trilogy. At current prices, it is a steal. This version suits "seat of your pants" style players and GM's. If you just HAVE to have a rule for evrything, get one or the other version of the second edition. But this one has always been my favorite by far. The 2nd ed book does have some useful information about the SW galaxy, but these rules are so much more. . . elegant. They are from a more civilised age.

Since this review is being written about a book published in 1987 and the review is being written in 2003, after the two new movies and the *cough* HORRIBLE! *cough* D20 game, I think the makers were visionaries. I like the first book more than the second edition for one reason: movie stills from the GOOD (original) movies. Some of the rules need work, but otherwise, this is GREATNESS. BUY HERE FOR FEW DOLLARS, INSTEAD OF D20 FOR MANY DOLLARS.
 
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agris

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Been ages since I've played any tabletop RPG and I've been out of the loop for quite some time too. My last attempt at grouping some friends for a DnD game was an utter failure, and my last purchase (4th edition "red box") was...disappointing, to say at least.

Simple question here is this - if I wanted to get my friends to play the game, most of them complete noobs with a fantasy hard-on, where should I start?
I got some recommendations for Basic Fantasy RPG, which is also free to download on their website, but that's pretty much all I know.

Keep in mind though - it's been quite a few years since I've played anything tabletop, and even then I wasn't much of an active player - so to put it simple, consider me a noob here. Ideas and suggestions?
You really need to tell us more, like what genres and aspects of different genres you like. Do you like detailed mechanics, or do you like just "doing stuff" and not being bogged down by rules? Do you want to feel epic out of the gate, or have the feeling of a farmer's kid who has gone adventuring and has to earn his reputation in the world on top of the fallen bodies of his comrades? Why was your 4e game a failure? Do you want to GM or find a table to join? Do you know what it means to GM a game?

Keep in mind that since you've told us almost nothing about your tastes, all these suggestions have some sort of bias or agenda. It's likely all harmless and in spiriting of being helpful such as "I like X, try X!" but that's akin to giving other people gifts that you yourself want.
 

Atomkilla

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Well, pretty much any game will allow you that, though some might give you some good tips and whatnot. For instance, I really like the Apocalypse World* game. Its rules are a bit weird, and they focus too much on the story aspect. Still, it has some very good ideas of how to deal with aspects that frequently are left out of the game, as well as good game mastering guidelines. The Dungeon Master's Guide in the 1st edition of AD&D has many good hints as well, and interesting tables and classifications to help you run the world. Hackmaster has a very good item list (though it can get a little silly) and pricing guidelines, something a lot of games nowadays forget about.



Well, whenever someone wants a simpler fantasy game, I like to suggest the Advanced Fighting Fantasy books. There is a new edition, but you can also find the old Dungeoneer, Blacksand!, Out of The Pit, Titan and The Riddling Reaver books around. These are all made using the world of those old Fighting Fantasy books, so if you happened to like those, it is a good option, I think. The system is very simplistic. But if you have played some of the old games, you will probably know how to make a cool game out of it.

Tunnels and Trolls is also a good option. The underlying game is simple, but can easily be extended with hard rules so as to make it more interesting. Basically, a skill in that game can do anything the GM decides it can do. But if you decide to lay down some more strict guidelines, you can add complexity to the game as you go along. There are several ready made adventures to support it too.

Burning Wheel is actually a bit complex, but its complexity is modularized. First, it presents the basic dice rolling mechanic. Then it adds some basic concepts, such as beliefs and skills. Finally, it adds complex systems such as the melee combat or the ranged combat system, or the spell casting rules. You can add in those systems as you like, so you can start the game simple and add more complexity later on. The systems presented in the game are pretty cool, though I would recommend you don't give it much of a thought when the book tells you that this must be done this or that way. One of its most interesting aspects is the lifepath character creation, where you determine your PC's life up to that point, and it gives you skills, attributes, resources and what not. It adds a lot of character to the PCs, and make them seem to actually have come from their cultures.

*This is a post apocalyptic game, not a fantasy one. Though its game mastering hints can be useful in any game, possibly with some adapting. There is a fantasy game based on it, called Dungeon World, but I wouldn't really recommend it.



I must admit that, aside from Advanced Fighting Fantasy, most of the other things you have mentioned here are completely new to me. Perhaps not completely, but largely.
Most of my knowledge of PnP pretty much boils down to a bit of home-modified DnD 3.5 which I've seen/played on an occasion and 4th edition. I was among the crowd of folks who rushed in and bought it when it came out, which wasn't the smartest thing to do, in hindsight. More on it later.

I did, however, read a bit from various rulebooks over the years, but most of those things are long-forgotten. I'll see if I can find some of the stuff you've mentioned here.



This is a pretty good ranked and comprehensive PnP list:

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/greatest-pen-and-paper-rpg_s-v1

The only important game it's missing, which is damn fun, is:

Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game (1987, West End Games)

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-The-Roleplaying-Game/dp/0874310652



Quite an informative list, thank you. Most of the stuff there are new to me.



OSRIC or Dungeon Crawl Classics*.

*Edit: At least try the 0-level funnel Portal Under the Stars.


Again, thanks for the links.



I'd suggest something odd - Lady Blackbird. It's a pretty light RPG with fun mechanis. It's pretty friendly to noobs and it's completely free. And it's focused on characters and their motivation, something I personally love in RPGs way more than searching for loot and fighting goblins.

http://www.onesevendesign.com/ladyblackbird/


I personally like to focus on story more, but most of the people I've played with are usually very interested in a lootfest too, so I'd nit to aim for a balance between those two. I will check out the link you've given me here.



You really need to tell us more, like what genres and aspects of different genres you like.

Fantasy PnP's are the only ones I've ever played...even though I'm personally quite bored with the setting, most of the players I know aren't, so I stick with it. I usually modify it a bit - nothing game-breaking, but in my eyes, somewhat refreshing. I usually make the setting a bit darker, and change some of the fantasy tropes from utterly typical to a little less typical. I.e. my last game I added some Slavic mythology into the mix, mostly for the cosmetics (somewhat inspired by the Witcher), based the background story of the whole world on Kalevala and put all that in a world that has a bit of post-apocalypse to it... It's hard to recall every detail. It wasn't anything special, but people didn't mind it.

Do you like detailed mechanics, or do you like just "doing stuff" and not being bogged down by rules?

The latter, for convenience's sake. I wouldn't mind the first either, but I know some of the players would, and I gotta take the middle ground.

Do you want to feel epic out of the gate, or have the feeling of a farmer's kid who has gone adventuring and has to earn his reputation in the world on top of the fallen bodies of his comrades?

I always preferred the second. Slow and bloody rise up towards greatness...or a long way down.

Why was your 4e game a failure?

Several reasons. First of all, 4e wasn't quite noob friendly, and at the time I had several people who weren't well-versed in the game join it. Second, it was...hard. IIRC, when it came to combat, it was quite brutal. Some of the basic encounters where quite problematic, both for players and for me as the GM - killing all of them in the first hour of game was not something I wanted, but the game more or less pushed me in that direction. Or at least, so it felt.
In the end it fell apart because several people got increasingly frustrated with the game's complexity (as I've mentioned, not quite noob friendly) and slowly lost their will. My GMing wasn't the best at it either - I had an okay, functional setting. I made them start small before going for the greater adventure. I gave them brothels. I gave them branching quests, as well as grinding through dungeons. But something was not right there.
In retrospect, some of the people whom I had brought to the table were idiots who shouldn't have been there. If that hadn't been the case, it could have been better and the game might have lasted longer, but I like to blame on the 4e most.

Do you want to GM or find a table to join?

Highly improbable for me to find a table, unless I make one - which usually makes me the GM.

Do you know what it means to GM a game?

That's a good question. I often ask myself that.
 
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Melan

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Atomkilla: Based on your preferences, the Basic Fantasy RPG will be a good fit for you and your group. It is simple to work with and develop adventures for, while it covers most of the D&D territory. It is broadly compatible with other classic D&D/AD&D versions, which have a wealth of old and modern support material, much of it very good and even free. There are a number of rather good settings out there, some more standard, some completely out there, and also some very useful general play aids. But the main thing is that it has a low setup cost, so you can get into the action fast. The old-school support materials also focus on ease of play over rules complexity, and you can focus on making adventures instead of struggling with the rules.

If 4th edition burned you out, also avoid 3.5, 3.0 and Pathfinder like the plague. They are all rules-heavy systems that need a lot of heavy lifting.

If combat lethality was a problem for you, try starting beginning characters on 2nd or even 3rd level - at that point, you still get the low-level experience, but characters are a bit more resilient.
 

Alchemist

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If Basic Fantasy RPG doesn't quite fit the bill you could also check this list of D&D OSR retro-clones which gives you a ton of options (many of them have free versions) : http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html

Some possible options in the lighter-rules D&D-based vein that haven't been mentioned yet:
  • Lamentations of the Flame Princess - has an interesting dark weird fantasy flavor to it that might be a nice change from traditional fantasy. System is a tweaked version of the old D&D Basic / Expert rules.
  • Swords & Wizardry - based heavily on Original D&D with a few minor tweaks here and there, quite popular with the OSR crowd. Also has an online SRD.
  • Labyrinth Lord - Straight-up Basic / Expert D&D clone with all of the old-school flavor. You can add the Advanced Edition Companion to include a wider range of AD&D-like class / race options. Also extremely popular in the OSR scene.
  • Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyberborea: Very pulpy sword-and-sorcery (and some bits of science-fantasy) flavored game based somewhat on 1st edition AD&D. No demi-human races.
  • Adventures Dark & Deep - an evolution of AD&D 1st edition based on how Gary Gygax might have progressed the rules. Like an alternate universe 2nd edition. Very interesting in my opinion - I have not had a chance to play yet but I'm considering it for an upcoming campaign.
  • Fantastic Heroes and Witchery - this one doesn't get talked about much but it's a very nicely done ruleset drawing elements from every edition of D&D.
 

Atomkilla

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Atomkilla: Based on your preferences, the Basic Fantasy RPG will be a good fit for you and your group. It is simple to work with and develop adventures for, while it covers most of the D&D territory. It is broadly compatible with other classic D&D/AD&D versions, which have a wealth of old and modern support material, much of it very good and even free. There are a number of rather good settings out there, some more standard, some completely out there, and also some very useful general play aids. But the main thing is that it has a low setup cost, so you can get into the action fast. The old-school support materials also focus on ease of play over rules complexity, and you can focus on making adventures instead of struggling with the rules.

If 4th edition burned you out, also avoid 3.5, 3.0 and Pathfinder like the plague. They are all rules-heavy systems that need a lot of heavy lifting.

If combat lethality was a problem for you, try starting beginning characters on 2nd or even 3rd level - at that point, you still get the low-level experience, but characters are a bit more resilient.


Thanks for the links.
Well, I had a talk with these potential players of mine, and showed them some of the stuff you all have given me here as well as offering several explanations - basic consensus is to begin with Basic Fantasy and then, if the things work out, eventually switch to 3.5/Pathfinder after trying out a few more systems.



If Basic Fantasy RPG doesn't quite fit the bill you could also check this list of D&D OSR retro-clones which gives you a ton of options (many of them have free versions) : http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html

Some possible options in the lighter-rules D&D-based vein that haven't been mentioned yet:
  • Lamentations of the Flame Princess - has an interesting dark weird fantasy flavor to it that might be a nice change from traditional fantasy. System is a tweaked version of the old D&D Basic / Expert rules.
  • Swords & Wizardry - based heavily on Original D&D with a few minor tweaks here and there, quite popular with the OSR crowd. Also has an online SRD.
  • Labyrinth Lord - Straight-up Basic / Expert D&D clone with all of the old-school flavor. You can add the Advanced Edition Companion to include a wider range of AD&D-like class / race options. Also extremely popular in the OSR scene.
  • Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyberborea: Very pulpy sword-and-sorcery (and some bits of science-fantasy) flavored game based somewhat on 1st edition AD&D. No demi-human races.
  • Adventures Dark & Deep - an evolution of AD&D 1st edition based on how Gary Gygax might have progressed the rules. Like an alternate universe 2nd edition. Very interesting in my opinion - I have not had a chance to play yet but I'm considering it for an upcoming campaign.
  • Fantastic Heroes and Witchery - this one doesn't get talked about much but it's a very nicely done ruleset drawing elements from every edition of D&D.


A very nice list, thank you. I've heard about some of these retro-clones, it's possible I will eventually try them out if the idea comes to life.



Thanks to all of you guys, you've been really helpful, and this thread is a goldmine of info. Brofists for all!
 

Keldryn

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Coming to this thread a bit late, but the D&D 5th Edition Basic Rules are available as a free download to check out. Basic Fantasy is a good place to start, but I think that 5e strikes a nice balance between AD&D and 3.5, and I think it is a more approachable game than either. If your group is mostly new to PnP roleplaying, they may find 3.5 or Pathfinder rather cumbersome. I've played since 1987 (with some extended breaks), and I find 3.5, PF, and 4e to all be too rules heavy and slow to play.

You can also find copies of the '83 Basic Rules (from which the 4e set stole the box art) for very little on eBay or perhaps local gaming shops; one shop near me always seems to have 3 or 4 copies of old Basic and Expert rulebooks (in decent shape) for $5 each. It's also pretty easy to find copies of the AD&D 2e Player's Handbook in decent shape (the later black cover printing). The recent reprints of 1e and 2e books were nice, but very expensive. The only one I bought was the 1e PH, because I had a hard time finding original copies that weren't disgusting.
 

Alex

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
8,818
Location
São Paulo - Brasil
Coming to this thread a bit late, but the D&D 5th Edition Basic Rules are available as a free download to check out. Basic Fantasy is a good place to start, but I think that 5e strikes a nice balance between AD&D and 3.5, and I think it is a more approachable game than either. (snip...)

AD&D 2nd edition strikes a nice balance between itself and 3.5.
 

mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,298
Location
Italy
Hmm, I'd been out of the loop quite a while myself.
So I'm playing Pathfinder right now on Roll20.

The system is mostly good to very good, and what I read of the manuals is very well written.
Yes it's rules heavy but I find people will naturally skip the rules that don't fit the "average playstyle" of the group. Of course I come from AD&D so it's not like everything's new.

Honestly what I dislike the most is the official art. It can be really idiotic at times, and it IS off-putting. This is NO minor issue, don't get me wrong.
Though I have the Inner Sea Guide, and that manual at least has a few pretty awesome pages of art here and there, a few are almost Conan-ish.
The setting is also written with a lot of competence and care though nothing so far strikes me as wildly amazing (concept-wise) as the legendary AD&D stuff (Ravenloft, Planescape, etc. Of course there's a nostalgia effect too).

I'm intrigued by that Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyberborea referenced earlier.
I'm not really huge on Conan lore but what I've read of the original stories managed to really touch something "fundamental" for me about what "true fantasy" should be about.
Can't quite put my finger on it and I wish I could.
I'd love a setting that'd manage to capture that feeling...
 

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