Interview Golden Land 2 is Real Time

[Ap_Jolly]

Some clarity is needed, before Vault Dweller starts saying I want Fallout 3 to be real-time or some such, because he's obviously missing my point by a mile.

Perhaps, but in comparison, they usually give much lower marks for crappy gameplay. As fas as I know, Golden Land got mixed reaction from Russian sites and players, who criticiized gameplay much more then good ol' TB.

Hint: Turn-based mode is a part of the gameplay.

Holy Fuck! A 3 or even 5% jump! Are you serious?

I am serious in suggesting that perhaps SS would've gotten higher reviews if it appealed to the broader audience by being RT, all other things being equal. 3-5% was just used as an example.

Developers believe all kinda stupid things, they are a superstitious lot. I wonder why they believe that reviewers will not penalize poor gameplay and automatically reward any RT game.

That's news to me. I'd like to know what idiot thinks gameplay is irrelevant, but real-time is important. That would be by far the stupidest thing any developer has ever said.

I use it as a proof that TB doesn't automatcally means lower scores, just like RT doesn't automatically means higher scores. It's all in presentation and implementation. I use it as a proof that a pure TB game could be successful, as overall SS did much better then Sacred for example. ToEE suffered from bugs and poor non-combat gameplay, TB combat was its only redeeming quality which was noted by the game sites.

Time mode doesn't "automatically" increase or lower scores because it's integral to the gameplay and is therefore judged based on reviewer's preferences. If he finds TB boring, he might perceive gameplay as "tedious", and he WILL lower scores for that.

Third, regarding your weak quoted argument, if someone likes SS combat enough to give it high scores, he would probably give equally high scores to another TB game, assuming that the combat doesn't suck, in which case Russian developers have nothing to worry about.

Agreed. All other things being equal, he would give the game higher reviews than if it were RT, because he prefers TB gameplay.
Disagreed with developers having nothing to worry about, because it's based on the assumption that there are more reviewers who like TB than those who like RT, which would result in higher average scores.

What I mean tho, is since 'when' is RT to be considered superior to TB? When did this happen? What was the catalyst?

Dune 2.

A-game, eh? Wow. I guess that's why Wiz 8 which was rated 91 by GameSpot, 100 by Computer Gaming World, and got tons of 90-100 from many other reputable hype sources got so much fucking shelf space that it basically put Sirtech out of business. Ratings aint everything, there are many other factors.

Are we talking about sales, or shell space?

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

Dune 2.

The book was better than the game, does that men that all books are better than all games?

Just because one system in one game is better than another system in a subsequent game, the former being rp and the latter tb, doesn't mean this applies to every intance of every game everywhere.

The perception as you seem to be implying that all reviewers prefer real time to turn based is a little flawed. Most reviewers at reputable sources, however hard they are to find these days, rate the game based on an objective view, not applying "dis suxors cos da tb is st0neage". However laughable it may sound, the good reviewers are at heart journalists and they should and mostly do treat games this way. TB doesn't seem to be an obstacle to a good game, if its genuinely a good game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Some clarity is needed, before Vault Dweller starts saying I want Fallout 3 to be real-time or some such, because he's obviously missing my point by a mile.

I just love it when people with weak "it's not a fact, but I think it's plausible" arguments use "you are missing my point" defense.

Perhaps, but in comparison, they usually give much lower marks for crappy gameplay. As fas as I know, Golden Land got mixed reaction from Russian sites and players, who criticiized gameplay much more then good ol' TB.

Hint: Turn-based mode is a part of the gameplay.

A mode is not a part of gameplay. The way it's implemented is. Hint: compare TB gameplay in SS, ToEE, Arcanum, Avernum, and PoR2.

Holy Fuck! A 3 or even 5% jump! Are you serious?

I am serious in suggesting that perhaps SS would've gotten higher reviews if it appealed to the broader audience by being RT, all other things being equal. 3-5% was just used as an example.

Well, it would be nice to see some facts. Here is what I have:

Sacred, 41 reviews, 76%
UFO: Aftermath, 32 reviews, 71%
Harbinger, 38 reviews, 62%
Blade&Sword, 28 reviews, 55%
Beyond Divinity, 21 review, 75%
Lionheart, 35 reviews, 64%
In comparison, recent TB games did much better:

ToEE, 37 reviews, 74%
JA2, 29 reviews, 85%
Silent Storm, 34 reviews, 82%
Wizardry 8, 33 reviews, 84%
Granted, games like Diablo, BG, and NWN got higher scores, but not because they were RT, but because they were hyped. Comparing unhyped average games as they come, I don't see any bias toward TB. Following GameSpot and IGN reviews of TB games I see a lot of praises regarding well done TB combat. I guess "well done" is a key word here.

Developers believe all kinda stupid things, they are a superstitious lot. I wonder why they believe that reviewers will not penalize poor gameplay and automatically reward any RT game.

That's news to me. I'd like to know what idiot thinks gameplay is irrelevant, but real-time is important. That would be by far the stupidest thing any developer has ever said.

Been following game news much? Played any games lately? Try Lionheart.

If he finds TB boring, he might perceive gameplay as "tedious", and he WILL lower scores for that.

Then perhaps TB mode shouldn't be implemented in a boring, kill 50 rats with a knife, way? By the same token, boring RT clickfest is getting the same threatment. Check Lionheart, Blade & Sword, Beyond Divinity reviews.

Disagreed with developers having nothing to worry about, because it's based on the assumption that there are more reviewers who like TB than those who like RT, which would result in higher average scores.

Well, that's your opinion. I disagree, and time will tell.

Are we talking about sales, or shell space?

Shelf space. You were talking about shelf space, I replied

 

[Ap_Jolly]

I'll give you a day or two to digest what I've said, then I'll come back to you. Maybe.

 

[EvoG]

The one thing you keep mentioning ApTyp is the 'reviewer' might find TB tedious and boring, and thusly lower the score. Um, he shouldn't be reviewing the game...lemme explain :

Assume for a moment I don't like sports games ( which isn't true btw ), and I review the lastest Madden or Live incarnation, and say it was terribly boring and give it a low score. Does this mean its bad? Of course not. What people seem to miss is that not only is the tastes of the reviewer important, but publications should and do pass off genres to particular reviewers, so the person who reviews S^2 ideally enjoys that type of gameplay and judges the games "gameplay". A good reviewer at best tries to be objective rather than highly opinionated ( "I hate TB games!" ). He has to try to remove himself from the review and judge the game based on its own merits and comparable products. A reviewer has a difficult time doing this if he already established that 'such and such' a game is not 'his kind' of game.

Also, wouldn't a reviewer mention that the game might've been better with RT in it if that was a significant modifier of his final review score?

Cheers

 

[ichpokhudezh]

I'll give you a day or two to digest what I've said, then I'll come back to you. Maybe.

This ranks among most impotent comebacks I heard or read in a while.

ichpokhudezh, the original game was called Zlatogor'e (or something). They released Zlato 2 as Golden Land, and working on Zlato 3 (GL2).

Hmm. Arent GoldenMountainRangeLand II a sequel to Zlatogor'e in regards to the storyline and main PC? Makes me wonder how would they handle the references to the prior game's events in their translation.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

EvoG:
Not really. For example, everyone on RPGCodex staff prefers TB, but there are numerous reviews of RT games made by the same people.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

This ranks among most impotent comebacks I heard or read in a while.

That's because I'm unusually comfortable about my penis size.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'll give you a day or two to digest what I've said, then I'll come back to you. Maybe.

Don't bother. There is no point in this argument. If you wish to believe in what you said, that's fine with me. I offered you some facts, some thoughts for you to consider. Whether you consider or disregard them is your business and doesn't concern me.

 

[taks]

The one thing you keep mentioning ApTyp is the 'reviewer' might find TB tedious and boring, and thusly lower the score. Um, he shouldn't be reviewing the game...lemme explain :

the difference is "TB as implemented" or "TB in general." i like TB combat just fine, but as implemented in PoR:RoMD, it was extremely tedious and boring. as a matter of fact, i enjoyed the game and had very few issues with it UNTIL i got to the first gazillion zombie fight. suddenly the TB combat, as implemented, sucked shit. never had that issue with ToEE TB, however, but the PoR:RoMD TB was tedious and boring.

taks

 

[Ap_Jolly]

Whether you consider or disregard them is your business and doesn't concern me

So why did you spent two pages arguing with me?

Conclusion: pwnt.

 

[DamnElfGirl]

Im confused, are you saying playing pokemon is a good thing, or using pokemons tb combat *hah* and mass appeal as an example of popular tb success, but the game is still horrific.

Oh, I find Pokemon exceedingly dull. I was using it as an example of a turn-based game that sold extremely well not just to the mass market, but to the mass market of little nose-pickers that North American capitalists of all stripes seem eager to tap.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So why did you spent two pages arguing with me?

Conclusion: pwnt.

Jumping to conclusion awfully fast, aren't we? I kept arguing with you because I thought you were smarter, that you'd be able to present and develop your position instead of waiting for a chance to say "pwnt".

Here is a brief overview for those who missed it:

AP: TB=lower scores, so RT is teh w1n
VD: Is that a fact?
AP: No, but it sounds plausible.
VD: Well, here is a truckload of links that prove you wrong.
AP: I don't want to play with you anymore, you are mean.
VD: This argument is pointless
AP: Hahaha! Pwnt!

Yeah, you've got me there. Like totally. :shock:

 

[villain of the story]

So did this game ever come out? Or the one before that, in English? What were they like? Screenshots look interesting but even Moby Games don't have either.

 

[sirfink]

Golden Land sounds like a Chinese MMO.

 

[jorgamesh]

Where can you find English version of GoldenLand? I know there are Russian, Czech and Spanish versions.

Golden Land 2 in Russian = GoldenLand in English

Golden Land 1 in Russian = Heath: The Unchosen Path in English