Review Gothic 3 review at Eurogamer

[Solaris]

No, the boars are not invincible if you use certain tactics....the problem is, they are bugged, along with quite a few other things. Once these issues are resolved it will be a decent game.

 

[Drakron]

Well they nearly are ... problem is they knock down and keep hiting for a huge amount of damage.

Worst is lizards since they knock down and have a too fast attack, you have no much of a chance against then, groups make things even worst.

I think they have far too much of a fast attack for the damage they are doing, I suspect they are bugged and all their attacks are doing the same damage of their stronger attack.

And as for broken quests ... well none so far, I did get a problem with the hungry wolves since the last 3 of then were kinda in a ridge and I had to really search for then ... this is not Oblivion with their GPS guiding system, you really need to search for things.

 

[MountainWest]

Swedens biggest newspaper, Aftonbladet, gave G3 4/5, saying it's "The best single-player-rpg"... (ever?). The readers avarege score is 4.33/5, though it's only 18 votes so far.

It's a really short review. Don't know if the paper-version is longer.

Some things:

"Piranha bytes ambition was simply to make Gothic 3 the best single-player-rpg. And they deliver."

"The choices you make, the reputation your actions creates and the open, explorer-inviting world itself gives you a gigantic and always changing new experience. With a touch of the predessors."

 

[Solaris]

Well they nearly are ... problem is they knock down and keep hiting for a huge amount of damage.

Worst is lizards since they knock down and have a too fast attack, you have no much of a chance against then, groups make things even worst.

I think they have far too much of a fast attack for the damage they are doing, I suspect they are bugged and all their attacks are doing the same damage of their stronger attack.

Well that's what I mean about them being bugged. Surely PB never meant them to be that way, at least I hope not...

Kiting them with a bow or using a long reach weapon is the only way you stand a realistic chance. But that means people that want to specialise in swords are screwed. And any game with a modicon of balance won't allow one particular sill-line to get borked in such a way. Obviously some foes should have a different sort of challenge than others depending on what route you take but those foes should not be totally unbeatable if you are uber enough.

 

[suleo]

I've been playing the game for almost 5 days now. Here is my assessment about the combat:

It sucks.

The reason is what others have pointed out. Unlike the previous Gothics, where timing mattered and you wouldn't just keep clicking your opponents to death, in this one, you CAN do it and they can also do it to you. Mostly because of "stunlocking". This, in combination with the extremely fast attack of the boars AND the fact that they are aggro by default AND the fact that they can see you before you can see them most of the time leads to the boars being uber.

Now, I have found a way to deal with boars:

1. Spend 50 points and get 200 more hitpoints
2. Spend some points and get trained in large weapons, then use a halberd.

The halberd has great reach so given that, and a careful timing of the FIRST attack, I can now handle boars, wolves, snappers etc. In fact, the snapper was a PIECE OF CAKE compared to the previous gothics. As long as I had my trusty halberd and could land the first strike, I could continue left-clicking and beating up the snapper without any chance of retaliation. I was able to clean 4 snappers AT THE SAME TIME doing this. Try going against 4 snappers in leather armor in G2 and see what happens...

Still, if I fail to get the first strike on a boar or wolf, 9 times out of 10 I die, even if I have 400 or more hitponts. All because of the stunlock. So combat is basically totally retarded as of right now. Hopefully they will fix it in a patch, especially since according to some people, combat seemed fine in the previews. Apparently something went wrong between the preview versions and the retail one.

About the starting equipment: it's anything BUT crap. You start with a sword that does more damage than a normal sword (60 vs 50) PLUS it has the orcslaying ability, so it does extra damage to orcs. It's a very good weapon for the starting areas. It just sucks against boars and wolves, due to its low reach. If you don't have enough points for a halberd, try to get a spear.

One last thing: armor currently seems to be botched. Some people say it's outright broken. I've read several reports on this: some claim it does nothing, others claim it does 10% of what the old gothic armor used to do (i.e. a protection value of 10 means damage reduction of 1). Either way, it seems to be very inefficient to say the least.


On the positive side, the game is beautiful to look at, the environments are great and very atmospheric, there are several improvements compared to previous gothics (e.g. you can now AT LAST cook multiple raw meats at the same time. No more clicking 120 times to cook 120 raw meats whohooo) and in general the game looks and feels like gothic. If they can fix the craptacular retardo combat and all the bugs, it will be a fantastic game (for me).

Oh and as for choices and consequences. There aren't as many as I would like and I am not that hard to please on that aspect but there are some. Besides the trivial cases like "turn the slave over or free him", I ran into an interesting consequence yesterday. I got a quest to get rid of some orc slave guards. I was able to lure the guards one by one outside the camp and kill them. After the first guard died, the others said that "someone has been killing our guards". After the second died, the others said "we think it's you". After the third died, I had to bribe the 4th one to convince him it wasn't me, and after the 4th died, no matter what I did, the remaining guards considered me an enemy (bribing FAILED! TEH HORROR). At which point, the entire town was against me. Ooops.


An evident consequence in retrospect but it was interesting nonetheless.

 

[denizsi]

What medieval arm would you use to kill a boar in real life anyway? I think it can't be with swords because you get too close with a sword and that is an unproportional risk. You can't really use a cut sword or cutting as a method because cutting isn't the primary use of swords and they cut clothing + much weaker human flesh at best. Not an axe either for similar reasons, though maybe throwing axe? So ,the only realistic option looks to be long-reach weapons ie. spears and polearms along with bows.

Combat may suck on its own. Out of that, the inability or difficulty to handle wild animals with weapons designed to be used against humans doesn't bother me at all. If anything, it's even better.

By the way, there isn't a skill devoted to fighting non-humanoids alone, is there? There was a skill or perk image on one of the screenshots, which resembled an animal, so I've assumed that there would be a skill/perk such as "hunting" or "animals" desgined to deal with wild animals.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Probably skinning.

 

[suleo]

What medieval arm would you use to kill a boar in real life anyway? I think it can't be with swords because you get too close with a sword and that is an unproportional risk. You can't really use a cut sword or cutting as a method because cutting isn't the primary use of swords and they cut clothing + much weaker human flesh at best. Not an axe either for similar reasons, though maybe throwing axe? So ,the only realistic option looks to be long-reach weapons ie. spears and polearms along with bows.

Combat may suck on its own. Out of that, the inability or difficulty to handle wild animals with weapons designed to be used against humans doesn't bother me at all. If anything, it's even better.

By the way, there isn't a skill devoted to fighting non-humanoids alone, is there? There was a skill or perk image on one of the screenshots, which resembled an animal, so I've assumed that there would be a skill/perk such as "hunting" or "animals" desgined to deal with wild animals.

You would use a long-reach weapon such as a spear, or halberd. And this is modelled to a decent degree in the game (see my post above). Or a bow (which also works good, but you have to run away after a couple of shots). HOWEVER, the problem lies in the extremely fast attack of those animals AND the stunlock. As I said, if you get hit, you're done for with almost NO chance to retaliate or even run away.

In its current state, the combat is: whoever gets the first strike in wins 90% of the time. This is a far cry from the previous gothics and basically trivializes combat. It's the reason that combat is crappy and it just gets amplified with animals, because the effects for the character are essentially death and a (LONG) reload.

And yes, there is an "animal hunting" skill, but you need hunting points and I haven't invested on those (because I don't play a hunter).

 

[Jon]

By the way, there isn't a skill devoted to fighting non-humanoids alone, is there? There was a skill or perk image on one of the screenshots, which resembled an animal, so I've assumed that there would be a skill/perk such as "hunting" or "animals" desgined to deal with wild animals.

There are two skills, "game hunting" and "big game hunting" which double your bow damage against game animals and predators respectively.

 

[denizsi]

I see. I'll need to play and see for myself for the extremely fast attacks, which might not be that bad (some of the videos I saw on youtube didn't look that drastic) despite what you say, but the other thing does indeed sound crappy.

Thanks for the info.

 

[HanoverF]

Bullshit, turn aound and sprint away *shift key*, then it's up to you to continue the fight or just avoid it and come back later.

They're tough yeah, but they sure as hell ain't as invincible as most are making them out to be.

Bullshit on you, They knock you down you're done, no sprinting from that continual knockdown. And with the shitty geometry you dont notifce that the boar is elevated until your attack misses and then its too late to just back off, its allready eating your innards. Play the game more than an hour before sharing your awsome insights.

 

[Lord Chambers]

I hope everyone is being consistant with their comments about Gothic 3. I see a lot of "it's a flaw but I can make do with X" or "it'll get fixed later." That shit DID NOT fly with Oblivion, where all manor of minor bullshit got toss around for 10 weeks. ENEXCUSABLE Bethesda.

Yeah, I know they're totally different cases. As long as you're consistant.

 

[Claw]

One problem I have are people who say "combat sucks" than then present the same old issue with boars, like killing boars - or animals, even - defines the combat system.

I also disapprove of the term "stunlocking" which makes it sound like it's a feature of the combat system which doesn't work well. Combat is good in principle, but buggy like everything.
For instance, against some enemies the attack while standing up doesn't connect.
Another issue I had with the scythe, shortly after performing a combo attack I cannot immediately perfom another; even though my Hero is blocking, the left mouse button initiates a normal attack.

Bullshit on you, They knock you down you're done, no sprinting from that continual knockdown. And with the shitty geometry you dont notifce that the boar is elevated until your attack misses and then its too late to just back off, its allready eating your innards.

Eh, I have no idea what your problem is. I never had a problem telling if an enemy was on my level.
Also, while it's possible that the continuous knockdown error occurs, it is also possible to stand up and continue the fight. I never tried running out of a combat with a boar though.

 

[Lord Chambers]

Boar rage in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LevjEaTNcew

While it's true I lack the boar hunting expertise of some people here, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that shit is fucking ridiculous. Less excusable than removing levatation, even.

 

[suleo]

One problem I have are people who say "combat sucks" than then present the same old issue with boars, like killing boars - or animals, even - defines the combat system.

I also disapprove of the term "stunlocking" which makes it sound like it's a feature of the combat system which doesn't work well. Combat is good in principle, but buggy like everything.
For instance, against some enemies the attack while standing up doesn't connect.
Another issue I had with the scythe, shortly after performing a combo attack I cannot immediately perfom another; even though my Hero is blocking, the left mouse button initiates a normal attack.

Well, "combat is good in principle" doesn't mean much if the implementation is craptacular. Combat was good in principle in G1/2 as well PLUS its implementation was ok for me. In this instantiation, the implementation is BAD. ANd the implementation is really what matters because I don't play the game "in principle".

Boars and animals are relevant to the discussion because they amplify the faults of the current system (be they conceptual or implementation faults, whatever). NPCs are also relevant to the discussion but they don't get brought up as often, because the PC pwns NPCs, while the boars usually pwn the PC. The former doesn't require a long quickload, the latter does, so the nuisance factor for the latter is greater.

At the end of the day it comes down to this: in G1/2 combat was enjoyable for me. Not easy, but enjoyable once you got the hang of it and it really gave you a sense of accomplishment when you were able to defeat a snapper by timing the attack/backoff sequence correctly. In G3, I defeated 4 snappers all at the same time by just mashing the lmb. Should I feel TEH UBAR? Not really, because it wasn't due to my superb skillz but due to the lack of retaliation caused by "stunlocking" or whatever it's called.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

One problem I have are people who say "combat sucks" than then present the same old issue with boars, like killing boars - or animals, even - defines the combat system.

I also disapprove of the term "stunlocking" which makes it sound like it's a feature of the combat system which doesn't work well. Combat is good in principle, but buggy like everything.

In principle, Oblivion was a really great RPG.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Bullshit, turn aound and sprint away *shift key*, then it's up to you to continue the fight or just avoid it and come back later.

They're tough yeah, but they sure as hell ain't as invincible as most are making them out to be.

Bullshit on you, They knock you down you're done, no sprinting from that continual knockdown. And with the shitty geometry you dont notifce that the boar is elevated until your attack misses and then its too late to just back off, its allready eating your innards. Play the game more than an hour before sharing your awsome insights.

Love you too.

When you're on the floor there's a damn good chance they'll miss one of their attacks, if you fast click you can do a quick parry attack (with your sword) that knocks them away giving you time to make a comeback, normally at this time you're low on health so i'd just sprint the fuck out of there rather than fight. The animals hit too hard yes, but they CAN be killed pretty regular.


Spamming attacks in this game has never worked for me, the attacks usually miss and only give an opening for an enemy to fuck you with.

I'd say stick with it, if it's really pissing you off that much you can turn the difficulty down, they don't hit nearly as hard.

 

[Elwro]

Boar rage in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LevjEaTNcew

In fact, that's more a boar rape than anything else. Just look at the moves of that beast and rhythmical moans of the unlucky.
Seriously, who the hell thought such audio effects were OK? Hm, they probably would be if the guy wasn't getting hit every second.

 

[Drakron]

Controls implementation is better, now I know what the fuck am I doing instead of guessing what the hell I just did.

Taken me about a hour trying to liberate the 2nd town because the "support" of the underground never shown up and it was me and the paladin and they really liked to gang up on me, eventually with luck and smart TACTICS I was able to free the place.

There is one thing its miles above Oblivion IMERSHION!

The wildlife.

Not only we get a lot of passive wildlife (as rabbits, small lizards, turtles, etc ...) but they follow up a cycle, they sleep at night and I seem wolves going after deers and ravangers (the bird things) and when they kill then they go to a eating animation.

How THAT is imersion.

 

[aweigh]

From what I've been reading, and seeing the size of those beasts, I think they made them tough enough. I mean look at that fucking thing! And the boar as well.

I wouldn't wanna go against that thing with a sword.

 

[Inziladun]

Well the angle at which that picture was taken makes the boar look 2X bigger.

 

[suibhne]

Some species of wild boar are freakin' mammoth, like 250 pounds. We're not talking Arkansas razorbacks here.

Still, I don't like the fact that such animals are 100% aggressive in games like this. It would be much more realistic for them to run or hide as often as charge.

 

[aweigh]

Controls implementation is better, now I know what the fuck am I doing instead of guessing what the hell I just did.

Taken me about a hour trying to liberate the 2nd town because the "support" of the underground never shown up and it was me and the paladin and they really liked to gang up on me, eventually with luck and smart TACTICS I was able to free the place.

There is one thing its miles above Oblivion IMERSHION!

The wildlife.

Not only we get a lot of passive wildlife (as rabbits, small lizards, turtles, etc ...) but they follow up a cycle, they sleep at night and I seem wolves going after deers and ravangers (the bird things) and when they kill then they go to a eating animation.

How THAT is imersion.

But can you see the fear in the Orc's eyes?? The stubble in the german's neckbeard?

 

[HanoverF]

When you're on the floor there's a damn good chance they'll miss one of their attacks

Only as good as your last quicksave.

I'm not 'having a problem' success is a quicksave away. But once you've cleaned the hunters of the midlands out of arrows it gets harder.

The "Support" in the first real town you liberate pretty much amounts to the pig muck raker and the theif...

 

[Claw]

In its current state, the combat is: whoever gets the first strike in wins 90% of the time.

Funny how that's totally not my experience, and I can hardly prevent an NPC from striking back with a constant string of fast attacks for long.

Well, "combat is good in principle" doesn't mean much if the implementation is craptacular. Combat was good in principle in G1/2 as well PLUS its implementation was ok for me. In this instantiation, the implementation is BAD. ANd the implementation is really what matters because I don't play the game "in principle".

Nice post, it just has one minor flaw. It's bullshit. When i said "in principle" I mean that combat is great about 60% of the time, sucks maybe 5% of the time.
But maybe 60% of the times you talk about the crap combat, you didn't actually play the game but imagined it.

Bbesides, combat in Gothic 1+2 was pretty simple, and NPCs had the uncanny ability to execute an fast combo attack I couldn't do anything against but watch my Hero get cut to stripes if I allowed them to strike at all.

NPCs are also relevant to the discussion but they don't get brought up as often, because the PC pwns NPCs, while the boars usually pwn the PC.

It's funny that you apparently find NPCs much easier to defeat than I do, while you have trouble with boars.

In principle, Oblivion was a really great RPG.

No.

 

[Paranoid Jack]

As far as the game goes I am enjoying it far more than Oblivion. The constant threat of death adds much to the tension and the game-world is much more life-like (even though it doesn't look like Disneyworld). With graphics turned up high this game looks great. Only negative is the draw-distance but I like the blur-effect added to the distant land-marks.

Combat is something that grows on you just like the previous game. So even though the beasties can rapid fire you to death pretty quickly it is still enjoyable more times than not.

Broken quests? I think I had a corrupted save game.

I went into the south exit (tunnel) from Reddock (or whatever) and after loading a save the lizards were gone. Quest broken since you must kill the beasts to complete the quest. Same with those damned Shy Deer. I swear I killed at least five of them yet Chris remains an anus and won't train me. No worries, another Hunter near Cap Dun (Kap Dun if you read the map) fixed me up with some skillz.

Also when I cleared Ortega's cave I found crates of Lamp Oil the first time. Well when I restarted a new character to change the skill points distribution the crates were missing. Later I found the fella looking for his stolen lamp oil.

So that is three or four I have found broken already and even though the world is huge and the number of quests available are great I don't like leaving loose ends.

One huge plus so far... I created a sword and sharpened it and it's the best weapon I have. Leaves hope that one game finally may have create a reason (besides profit) to craft your own weapons. Can anyone elaborate on this that has spent a lot of points in smithing? Thanks in advance....