Has C&C become the cancer of RPGs?

[Alexios]

It seems that nearly every new big-budget game that is marketed as an RPG is marketed with a heavy focus on C&C. Despite all the advancements in game production technology and the huge increase in budgets, there has been virtually no focus on gameplay in big-budget RPGs in the last several years. Developers don't even seem to care about the quality of the story itself, or the quality of the writing of the characters. Instead, all we ever hear about is how your choices in the game can impact the story. The "story" could be as banal as imaginable, but don't worry: your choices will choose what direction it goes in! Forget about everything else that is supposed to make an RPG an RPG, though.

Do developers do this simply because C&C is very easy to do, whereas innovative gameplay and quality writing take actual talent? Or do they just take their fanbase for fools who will eat this garbage up no matter what?

Discuss.

 

[Wunderbar]

It's just a marketing buzzword, because actual C&C is still a rare thing.

 

[Beastro]

It's just a marketing buzzword, because actual C&C is still a rare thing.

Typically just enough to tick the box of "C&C" and little else done.

 

[LESS T_T]

I think it's like combat. You should know whether it's "awesome" popamole action or "hardcore" turn-based tactics before assessing its merits. Merely saying 'we're doing C&C' is meaningless until we see specifics. (CYOA? Dynamic systems? "Full-on" simulations? Hybrid?) I think doing good "C&C" as gameplay or a core concept (that is intertwined with other RPG systems not detached CYOA) takes actual talents.

 

[Yosharian]

It seems that nearly every new big-budget game that is marketed as an RPG is marketed with a heavy focus on C&C. Despite all the advancements in game production technology and the huge increase in budgets, there has been virtually no focus on gameplay in big-budget RPGs in the last several years. Developers don't even seem to care about the quality of the story itself, or the quality of the writing of the characters. Instead, all we ever hear about is how your choices in the game can impact the story. The "story" could be as banal as imaginable, but don't worry: your choices will choose what direction it goes in! Forget about everything else that is supposed to make an RPG an RPG, though.

Do developers do this simply because C&C is very easy to do, whereas innovative gameplay and quality writing take actual talent? Or do they just take their fanbase for fools who will eat this garbage up no matter what?

Discuss.

Give a few examples of big-budget games that are marketed as RPGs and have a heavy focus on C&C, in the last several years

 

[Alexios]

It seems that nearly every new big-budget game that is marketed as an RPG is marketed with a heavy focus on C&C. Despite all the advancements in game production technology and the huge increase in budgets, there has been virtually no focus on gameplay in big-budget RPGs in the last several years. Developers don't even seem to care about the quality of the story itself, or the quality of the writing of the characters. Instead, all we ever hear about is how your choices in the game can impact the story. The "story" could be as banal as imaginable, but don't worry: your choices will choose what direction it goes in! Forget about everything else that is supposed to make an RPG an RPG, though.

Do developers do this simply because C&C is very easy to do, whereas innovative gameplay and quality writing take actual talent? Or do they just take their fanbase for fools who will eat this garbage up no matter what?

Discuss.

Give a few examples of big-budget games that are marketed as RPGs and have a heavy focus on C&C, in the last several years

Nearly every "RPG" featured at E3 this year.

 

[Wunderbar]

It seems that nearly every new big-budget game that is marketed as an RPG is marketed with a heavy focus on C&C. Despite all the advancements in game production technology and the huge increase in budgets, there has been virtually no focus on gameplay in big-budget RPGs in the last several years. Developers don't even seem to care about the quality of the story itself, or the quality of the writing of the characters. Instead, all we ever hear about is how your choices in the game can impact the story. The "story" could be as banal as imaginable, but don't worry: your choices will choose what direction it goes in! Forget about everything else that is supposed to make an RPG an RPG, though.

Do developers do this simply because C&C is very easy to do, whereas innovative gameplay and quality writing take actual talent? Or do they just take their fanbase for fools who will eat this garbage up no matter what?

Discuss.

Give a few examples of big-budget games that are marketed as RPGs and have a heavy focus on C&C, in the last several years

Nearly every "RPG" featured at E3 this year.

these games hasn't released yet, so we can't judge whether focusing on C&C implementation hurt them or not.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Yosharian]

It seems that nearly every new big-budget game that is marketed as an RPG is marketed with a heavy focus on C&C. Despite all the advancements in game production technology and the huge increase in budgets, there has been virtually no focus on gameplay in big-budget RPGs in the last several years. Developers don't even seem to care about the quality of the story itself, or the quality of the writing of the characters. Instead, all we ever hear about is how your choices in the game can impact the story. The "story" could be as banal as imaginable, but don't worry: your choices will choose what direction it goes in! Forget about everything else that is supposed to make an RPG an RPG, though.

Do developers do this simply because C&C is very easy to do, whereas innovative gameplay and quality writing take actual talent? Or do they just take their fanbase for fools who will eat this garbage up no matter what?

Discuss.

Give a few examples of big-budget games that are marketed as RPGs and have a heavy focus on C&C, in the last several years

Nearly every "RPG" featured at E3 this year.

Give a few examples of big-budget games that are marketed as RPGs and have a heavy focus on C&C, in the last several years

 

[Alexios]

It seems that nearly every new big-budget game that is marketed as an RPG is marketed with a heavy focus on C&C. Despite all the advancements in game production technology and the huge increase in budgets, there has been virtually no focus on gameplay in big-budget RPGs in the last several years. Developers don't even seem to care about the quality of the story itself, or the quality of the writing of the characters. Instead, all we ever hear about is how your choices in the game can impact the story. The "story" could be as banal as imaginable, but don't worry: your choices will choose what direction it goes in! Forget about everything else that is supposed to make an RPG an RPG, though.

Do developers do this simply because C&C is very easy to do, whereas innovative gameplay and quality writing take actual talent? Or do they just take their fanbase for fools who will eat this garbage up no matter what?

Discuss.

Give a few examples of big-budget games that are marketed as RPGs and have a heavy focus on C&C, in the last several years

Nearly every "RPG" featured at E3 this year.

these games hasn't released yet, so we can't judge whether focusing on C&C implementation hurt them or not.

I'm not suggesting that a focus on C&C is what hurts a game, but rather that when it's it is what is solely purported to make the game in question an RPG the result is low quality. You can see this phenomenon at least as far back as Mass Effect. The sole quality that was purported to make the Mass Effect games RPGs was C&C. Everything else was thrown to the fire and the result was some of the most base popamole the genre had yet seen.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

No talent, lack of vision, and kowtowing to parent companies are the cancers. Poorly written C&C is one of the many casualties.

Give a few examples of big-budget games that are marketed as RPGs and have a heavy focus on C&C, in the last several years

2015
- Fallout 4 has infuriating C&C, but you can't say the choices and their consequences don't matter to gameplay/narrative, or that the C&C isn't a major focus. It's just really, really, really poorly done. This is the cancer Alexios is talking about.
- Witcher 3 has excellent C&C.

2016
- Dark Souls III has excellent C&C (in terms of what the C&C is there to accomplish).

Haven't played any other recent AAA RPGs.

 

[mindfields]

I couldn't really care about C&C to be honest, in fact many of my favorite RPGs have very little at all. It seems to me that many RPG fans really want to read books/choose-your-own-adventures rather than play games.

 

[Wunderbar]

It seems that nearly every new big-budget game that is marketed as an RPG is marketed with a heavy focus on C&C. Despite all the advancements in game production technology and the huge increase in budgets, there has been virtually no focus on gameplay in big-budget RPGs in the last several years. Developers don't even seem to care about the quality of the story itself, or the quality of the writing of the characters. Instead, all we ever hear about is how your choices in the game can impact the story. The "story" could be as banal as imaginable, but don't worry: your choices will choose what direction it goes in! Forget about everything else that is supposed to make an RPG an RPG, though.
Do developers do this simply because C&C is very easy to do, whereas innovative gameplay and quality writing take actual talent? Or do they just take their fanbase for fools who will eat this garbage up no matter what?
Discuss.

Give a few examples of big-budget games that are marketed as RPGs and have a heavy focus on C&C, in the last several years

Nearly every "RPG" featured at E3 this year.

these games hasn't released yet, so we can't judge whether focusing on C&C implementation hurt them or not.

I'm not suggesting that a focus on C&C is what hurts a game, but rather that when it's it is what is solely purported to make the game in question an RPG the result is low quality. You can see this phenomenon at least as far back as Mass Effect. The sole quality that was purported to make the Mass Effect games RPGs was C&C. Everything else was thrown to the fire and the result was some of the most base popamole the genre had yet seen.

More like Bioware decided to make a popamole game for dudebro couch couch gaming crowd, without losing their existing audience.
So instead of admitting "we are making popamole", they said "we are making a game with never seen before C&C, and it also a cover-based action".

 

[Yosharian]

Since Mass Effect is the only RPG game that has actually been mentioned:

Mass Effect's C&C became a fucking joke in ME3. Please don't talk to me about C&C and fucking Mass Effect.

 

[anvi]

You are all crazy, C&C is one of the best RTSs to ever happen to RPG games.

 

[cherry blossom]

. You can see this phenomenon at least as far back as Mass Effect. The sole quality that was purported to make the Mass Effect games RPGs was C&C. Everything else was thrown to the fire and the result was some of the most base popamole the genre had yet seen.

Mass Effect (first game, haven't played the others) had stats that determined your play style, success in combat and in dialogue and not much else, therefore an RPG no matter how you frame it, with or without C&C, well or poorly done, just like the vast number of other RPGs including some that made it into various Codex Top lists. The C&C was also a tad above the average RPG.

Beyond that, yes, it was grindy popamole, action wasn't particularly well designed or on par with pure action games of similar style and yet, the characters and presentation (voice acting, cinematics, pace) made it a far more fun and entertaining game, also unlike a vast number of RPGs. Playing an asshole female Shepard was one of the best experiences I had in any RPG.

I will pick a shallow action RPG with engaging characters and good presentation choke full of cinematics and whatnot over boring dump-lore RPGs any day, regardless of style. Not every game manages to be a PST, BL, JA2, AOD or Underrail, after all.

How do the later ME games compare to the first one? No spoilers, please.

 

[Urthor]

I've never seen an E3 like game actually talk about choices and consequences. People on console can't read the text from the couch they absolutely don't care

 

[Corvinus]

Give a few examples of big-budget games that are marketed as RPGs and have a heavy focus on C&C, in the last several years

The only one I can think of where C&C actually is the main focus is the Age of Decadence, and that isn't a big-budget game. As said earlier here it is just a buzzword for the major companies, so how could it hurt new games?
If you see some dog shit next to the human-made equivalent and you find yourself contemplating which one of the piles taste better, you've missed the main point...

Spoiler

It will still taste like shit! / There's no meaningful C&C to be had!

How do the later ME games compare to the first one? No spoilers, please.

I'd say that it is quite the journey, going through all three games with the same character. Something I'd recommend. There's ...less logic to be had as you go along, though.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

there has been virtually no focus on gameplay in big-budget RPGs in the last several years

Has there been in other genres?

Looks to me like there is no real 'revolutionary' gameplay progress to expect in the coming years, not in the popular big budget genres, anyway. Just retreads and small adaptions of the currently existing. Until maybe VR is more advanced than it currently is.

 

[anvi]

There was a good article on the BBC that explains why this is. ^

 

[PsychoFox]

The real cancer is over promising and under delivering... as well as designing games for the lowest common denominator.

 

[cherry blossom]

How do the later ME games compare to the first one? No spoilers, please.

I'd say that it is quite the journey, going through all three games with the same character. Something I'd recommend. There's ...less logic to be had as you go along, though.

Ah fuck logic, if they hold up to that asshole Shepard experience, that will be good enough.

 

[Corvinus]

Ah fuck logic, if they hold up to that asshole Shepard experience, that will be good enough.

Your hands will be weary from all the collargrabbing, so yes!

 

[Ranarama]

Do developers do this simply because C&C is very easy to do, whereas innovative gameplay and quality writing take actual talent? Or do they just take their fanbase for fools who will eat this garbage up no matter what?

It's a massive pain in the ass, which is why few do it. It also means more writing, which is why story suffers.

As for *why* they do it? Because it puts actual roleplaying into the games. As opposed to just characters with stats. Or a fixed story that might as well be a movie.

I assumed everyone knew this.

 

[Yosharian]

How do the later ME games compare to the first one? No spoilers, please.

Play the first two and kill yourself at the end of ME2. It's the canon ending. ME3 shall not be discussed.