How easy would it be for an average programmer....

[Fenril]

To code from scratch a 2d game engine with capabilities and features like say the ones in the Exile spiderweb games?

 

[Darth Roxor]

More difficult than you can handle.

 

[Fenril]

Me doing it is not what I had in mind.

 

[tozth]

I don't think the engine is the complicated part, even for an average programmer. Using something like rabbyt + pygame/pyglet it could be done quite easily.

 

[JarlFrank]

I don't think the engine is the complicated part, even for an average programmer.

What is the complicated part, then?

 

[Fenril]

I obviously dont know much about programming let alone code languages, but could someone with an average ( average not good or advanced or particularly talented) knowledge of the C language code a tile based 2d engine with little animation easily?

I might know a couple of people that are reasonably confortable with C or C+ or C++ or whatever, its all mostly chinese to me. The only thing that comes to mind about a 2d engine its that it should be easily scriptable to actually make a game.

EDIT: thanks for link tozth I bookmarked it, ive been searching for freeware engines and apps.

 

[flabbyjack]

Here's a programming secret : Don't code it yourself if somebody has already done the exact same thing. Especially if they're willing to offer it up for free or license it to you for $$.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Well, one might read some crappy tutorials and decide which library (i.e. http://gpwiki.org/index.php/SDL) is a way to go. Then code (read: copy & paste) some basic keyboard ins/outs, basic drawing and stuff. I'd say it would be a week of fun.

Then read some game development wikis (check above link) and basic Engine-turotials. Code basic low-feature-engine (a week moar). Then flesh it out for moar awesomeness - this can take forever. Or just go with some free engine instead.

 

[flabbyjack]

Got any Jet?

 

[Fenril]

Well if I thought I had the time and was capable of it I would give a free open source engine/library a go. That is being me trying to code anything. No way.

I dont think there is any free/cheap low performing 2d engine available that is idiot proof enough for me to make what I wanted to do with it, even if I had the time to dedicate to that.
Please note that I am person that has had considerable difficulties doing a very basic html web page with a tutorial open in front of me, just to give you an idea heh.

Im just going to try to talk more with the guys I know about my game idea, maybe they will be intrigued, one person told me at a point that the easiest coding language available was java, but I dont know if its suited for this purpose of if it would be easy enough for me. Almost certainly not.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

nein java is difficult making the engine is one thing, but then you have quests to debug , gfx ,to make etc.

I use blitzmax and I can create 2d games pretty easily

 

[NiM82]

Well if I thought I had the time and was capable of it I would give a free open source engine/library a go. That is being me trying to code anything. No way.

I dont think there is any free/cheap low performing 2d engine available that is idiot proof enough for me to make what I wanted to do with it, even if I had the time to dedicate to that.
Please note that I am person that has had considerable difficulties doing a very basic html web page with a tutorial open in front of me, just to give you an idea heh.

Im just going to try to talk more with the guys I know about my game idea, maybe they will be intrigued, one person told me at a point that the easiest coding language available was java, but I dont know if its suited for this purpose of if it would be easy enough for me. Almost certainly not.

Not the biggest fan of it, but some "not very good" programmers can do quite cool stuff with Macromedia Director (like Armageddon Empires). There's tons of tutorials and the app does most of the work for you, lets you manage stuff easily etc. If you've ever used flash, it works on similar principles but is better geared for doing games and has more scope for scripting.

 

[JarlFrank]

one person told me at a point that the easiest coding language available was java, but I dont know if its suited for this purpose of if it would be easy enough for me. Almost certainly not.

Check out the jCRPG development thread here in the RPG Design Forum. It's made with java and looks pretty good.

 

[Chefe]

If you find something really good, please let me know, mmkay?

 

[tozth]

I don't think the engine is the complicated part, even for an average programmer.

What is the complicated part, then?

The story, the game mechanics and the graphics.

For example, look at http://www.pyweek.org, a site where the creator of pygame is holding competitions for games written in python in one week. Getting something moving on the screen in 2d is not that hard when you use a high level language. Given enough time (let's say 3 months), I have no doubt an average programmer could make a 2d engine in python on par with what Spiderweb uses.

 

[Hory]

By the time an average programmer finishes this kind of engine, he won't be average anymore.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

You can finish a ton of projects and still be only an average programmer.

 

[Chefe]

For example, look at http://www.pyweek.org, a site where the creator of pygame is holding competitions for games written in python in one week. Getting something moving on the screen in 2d is not that hard when you use a high level language. Given enough time (let's say 3 months), I have no doubt an average programmer could make a 2d engine in python on par with what Spiderweb uses.

That looks pretty good. Do you have any experience with it?

 

[shihonage]

To code from scratch a 2d game engine with capabilities and features like say the ones in the Exile spiderweb games?

The 2D renderer will be the easy part. When you get to the gameplay mechanics and design (which are inseparable), you will get a glimpse of just how much work the game really is.

The renderer is like 2% of such a game. Seriously.

I obviously dont know much about programming let alone code languages, but could someone with an average ( average not good or advanced or particularly talented) knowledge of the C language code a tile based 2d engine with little animation easily?

I might know a couple of people that are reasonably confortable with C or C+ or C++ or whatever, its all mostly chinese to me. The only thing that comes to mind about a 2d engine its that it should be easily scriptable to actually make a game.

The language isn't as important as knowledge of gameplay programming. Gameplay programming is not a subset of "programming" as a whole. It is a separate set of skills. If you don't have it, you will build it through trial and error.

 

[Aikanaro]

From my experience as a very average programmer making crap game engines, it's not very difficult. Just time consuming, really. All the information you need is easily available - if you beat your head against the code enough it will eventually turn out. Sticking with it when it gets dull or comes to a grinding halt is the main problem, though that might just be my short attention span.

 

[SuicideBunny]

one person told me at a point that the easiest coding language available was java, but I dont know if its suited for this purpose of if it would be easy enough for me. Almost certainly not.

d is actually a better choice than java, but either way it's probably too much.

you could always shell out 100 bucks for a torque game builder indie license, and if you can't figure it out, have your average programmer do the scripting.

tgb's gotten quite neat in the last couple of versions.

rpgmaker is easy to use for newbies, but on the other hand somewhat restrictive (though that has gotten way better with the latest iteration, supposedly).
either way it's hard to make any good recommendations not knowing and specifics about your game idea.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Try Torque 2D (aka Torque Game Builder).

A VERY simple 2D engine (2D sprites on a top down grid ala chess) isn't that complex to program, assuming you know your graphics APIs.

However, as you increase the feature set the dev time and difficulty climbs. Things like animations, layering of 2D elements for an iso game, pathfinding around obstacles and NPCs, etc etc. It's those kind of features that will account for 80% of your time.

Basically, if you don't know what it takes or have never done it before you're more than likely underestimating it A LOT.

This is a rule of engine programming, even more than general programming. In general programming, you tend to only underestimate the necessary work by 50%, lol.

 

[Fenril]

Well I get the message that the game mechanics running in the background are certainly the hardest part.
Obviously everyone IF making an rpg would want to have their own( even if poorly designed) character development system, combat mechanics and so on, worse of all to implement all that a good mind in math is probably necessary ( I hate math.).

And about the rpgmaker reference definately not, even if you made proper sprites to replace those gay big head jap sprites and tried to change everything to your tastes you would still end up with something Jrpgish (horror.)

 

[WanderingThrough2]

pathfinding around obstacles and NPCs

A* really isn't that hard to figure out.

 

[avatarrr]

pathfinding around obstacles and NPCs

A* really isn't that hard to figure out.

A* is indeed quite easy to implement. However, what I find amusing is AAA titles that treat that kind of AI like a low priority feature. One of most immersion breaking elements in such games is when a monster is stuck on some invisible terrain obstacle and unable to navigate.
From what I've heard, Fallout 3 is example of AI (pathfinding etc.) implemented badly.