I had a dream

[SCO]

No not turian homo sex.

But maybe just as bad.

I dreamed i was playing a original rpg.
The setting was time-travel like sci-fi, preventing ITZ like "A mind forever voyaging".

The current quest i was trying to do was prevent the assassination of a politician in the 30's somewhere. To do this i infiltrated the party where he would be assassinated as a bodyguard.
The game looked like syndicate . After protecting him the second try (reloaded) and hiding my gun in three pieces and ditching my clothes, i found that i had killed some innocents - small newspaper like epilogue etc - so the politician career was destroyed anyway. The game would continue, but i could not go back (reload).

What do you think of this kind of scenario based decline of rpg dreams. Are save-points good or bad for role-playing? After all this did, enforce C&C, and if the game was designed well many scenarios (like this one) wouldn't be dead ends. However this focus can lead to one quest at a time scenarios i think. Anything else is to hard to think of alternative scenarios.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Are save-points good or bad for role-playing?

Role-playing who? An immortal dude that can travel back in time with knowledge of his own future mistakes?

 

[SCO]

The alternative nowadays is complete save freedom.

Unless you are suggesting that every rpg be like nethack?

Edit: Anyway, you misread or i misexplained. The "savepoint" is not reversible. There can be saves in the scenarios, but no way to go back to a previous scenario after finishing it.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

The alternative nowadays is complete save freedom.

Unless you are suggesting that every rpg be like nethack?

Too much cRPGs rely on grind and have completely improbable stories to that require taking too much risk to be playable Iron Man.

It's great for short, non-linear games like Fallout, though.

 

[saenz]

So basically it's Quantum Leap the RPG?

 

[Elzair]

Edit: Removed lame, unfunny, and racist “parody” of MLK’s speech

 

[DraQ]

What do you think of this kind of scenario based decline of rpg dreams. Are save-points good or bad for role-playing? After all this did, enforce C&C, and if the game was designed well many scenarios (like this one) wouldn't be dead ends. However this focus can lead to one quest at a time scenarios i think. Anything else is to hard to think of alternative scenarios.

Save points may be good for roleplaying, but are utterly broken when it comes to the purpose of saves in the first place, which is to be able to leave the game whenever you fucking please.
Plus they bear the taint of gaming consoles.

Ironman is the best when it comes to roleplaying, but obligatory ironman turns out rather atrocious when the game has any amount of structured plot, unless it's so easy that the only way to die is dying dumb.

Save and load at will makes for the best mechanics in terms of convenience, but it removes all the weight from player's mistakes, which encourages suicide reconnaissance, bruteforcing the problem by saving and reloading till effective and save scumming in general.

However, those are not the only solutions:

First, you can use save points with ironman-like mechanics between them, so that failure will return you to the last checkpoint, while you can still leave the game and return to it at will.

Second, you can use ordinary saves, but with various things to discourage reloading.

Delayed consequences effectively discourage reloading for plot reasons, as avoiding them requires reloading several hours old save effectively forfeiting last few hours of gameplay - no player wants that.

Allowing for no single optimal way to go through the game - especially content-wise also encourages player to explore the consequences of his actions rather than just reload.

Lastly, multiple reloads during a playthrough create something that's best described as unnatural string of lucky events, so why not temporarily curse the player with some
hidden negative luck modifiers on reload? Make him find only crappy loot, sprain his wrist and stick his weapon in his foot when trying to swing it, say something inane when persuading an ill-tempered sorcerer to help him, etc.
When said curse doesn't irreversibly screw the character up (in terms of being able to complete the game), but is sufficiently bad that player decides to grit his teeth and persevere upon losing a unique and legendary piece of equipment to an acidic slime, or upon death of an interesting and helpful NPC in his party, you know you have reached perfection.