Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
Well thats one definition. I think the people they are "misleading" are the dumbasses who got lost in morrowind (and will prboably end up stuck in OB too).
Hmm... Too little is known to reassure me that they are not up to no good...
As for the dumbasses in question: I agree. How anyone could have managed to get lost in Morrowind amazes me!
"Derrr....I ran into the water and I don't know what direction to go in...I know, I'll just keep swimming and I'll hit an invisible wall!" Thats one way...
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
But the complex interactions will be fixed, scripted, events that have a low tolerance for freestyle gameplay.
How the hell do you know that?...do you have the game? It sounds like you don't like it, in that case, I'll be happy to take it off your hands
If they were not fixed, scripted, events then killing NPCs wouldn't be a problem!
:wink:
Not realy. I'm thinking of more persistant things like patrolls and such, which actually need to be subject to change.
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
I can think of quite afew GAME WORLD (not purely MQ) operations that would revolve around a central NPC. Crime, trade, imperial legion comand, ect... are just afew of the things that would work this way.
I think (and this is pure speculation, but then again I am an insane fanboy who has read prettimuch everything there is to read on OB, so I am educated in the matter) this is more a case of "OK, are we going to fill half of the theives guild missions with 'fed-ex quests' and let you kill every NPC while keeping AI operations intact, or are we going to give the thieves guild it's full share of interesting quests?"
I personaly rather have the thieves guild quests fleshed out more and have afew random people be "off limets"
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but what you are suggesting would greatly increase the number of non-killable NPCs?
I'm not sugesting anything hear, just saying that I rather have them work on better quests than figure out ways so that every single NPC can be killed for everyone.
The point is to create a method of offloading pre-defined quests to other NPCs so although the quest concept may remain the actors in that quest are changeable. Add to that emergent quests and you have a very fleshed out series of guild quests!
Voice acting space is a problem there. Maby if it were a PC exclusive where you could have multiple DVDs...
I admit that if you manage to kill enough NPCs then you may break a quest but then that would be the quest outcome - you chose to kill them all and you should accept the consequenses.
Stupid people need to be sheilded, after all, they are where the money is, and the more money beth makes, the more likely they are to ditch the crappy Gamebyro (formerly known as net immerse) engine and go with the unreal engine. As I said before, I can change the whole bit in the CS, and I will.
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
Where did you get the faction quests from?
While they have not told us the names of the factions we have had indication that they will be present in one form or another. With their push on complex quests it is a reasonable supposition that factions will have major quests and so they will include major quest critical NPCs.
They have confirmed The three guilds and the dark brotherhood. The arena is suposed to be like a faction, with ranks and all (but I doubt any overall storyline),a dn they've been silent on the nine devines.
Major storylines with quest critical NPCs dosn't mean invincible. I think they are doing it only for the MQ because that is what is haned to you in the beginning, and what is most likely to be done first. Once people get off the main road, I think bethsada is going to take the kid gloves off.
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
True, but second best in one area. The focus on other areas too.
It is a pretty important area though!!
There are much more important things IMHO
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
And don't bring up "Shiny graphics over gameplay!!!!!" or somthing like that. Bethsoft has a large team. They have plenty of artists who make 3D modles, plenty of programmers to program, plenty of people to manage the voice actors, ect... No one is neglecting their area to work on another.
I don't believe that I have
ever said that - although I have pointed out that there is a finite budget and money spent on artists, vioce actors, etc... could have been spent on more programmers... Are you telling me that they have an infinite budget?
More programers is not necisarely better. Too manny and they will get in eachothers way, and they become harder to coordinate.
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
I'd prefer they released a finished game rather than a development kit that allows me to finish it for them or make my own. It is also worth noting that there are limits to what the CS can do.
Me too, but I don't think that it will be unfinished because afew NPC's will cause auto-reload upon death.
True, there are limets, but unchecking a box in an NPC menu is not one of them. The devs aren't going to hardcode the killable/non-killable npcs into the game. I am so sure of this that I will install Windows ME on my computer if I am wrong.
I will admit that I am a little not-so much with the caring thing because I intend on opening up the CS first thing and making everyone killable, see if the game works, and if it dose, yay. I probably would be on your side if I was using a 360...
But it is settling for second best rather than addressing the problem...
You mean clear a checkbox that they've put in as a stop-gap measure to prevent problems they expect to crop up? That desn't sound like a smart move to me... Neither does putting Windows ME on you system - there's some things you just shouldnt joke about!
It's a checkbox in the CS, which is the tool their using, and the tool that we're getting. The basic thing about the CS is "It's a powerful tool, and you could screw up your game if you mess with it" They haven't done horrible things to it yet.
I'm getting the PC version myself but I'd rather not need to manually disable their stop-gap measures before playing...
Good for you. And guess what, download it. The thing will be a mod just like anything else done in the CS, and will probably be one of the first ones up (alongside nudity mods, uberweapon mods, and town filled with monsters mods)
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
I do have to point out that they realy only have time to develope one new technology themselves. That would require alot of new stuff. Maby in the future. You got to remember, this is only a game. I got other things to do. And if you don't have other things to do, then you should be too disapointed with your life to notice that the game just isn't a godly program of life-replacement.
And I accepted that but if they were aware that there would be a limitation on spoken text, and lets face it they should be, then declaring a fully voiced game seems like a bad idea - maybe not for Oblivion as an action/adventure game but it is for the purposes of making a CRPG.
Immersion is a big factor, and voice is more immersive. Anyways, text is fine, but by no means better, because good tech that simulates langauge isn't availible, and the ability to use the players name isn't that special.
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
Exactly, can't work at the moment. I don't badmouth the original DOOM for not having havock physics.
The physics was good enough - there was a perceptable gravity that acted on objects - although there we not that may object for it to act on!
And of course Doom had some pretty damn fine addictiveness that helped it's cause somewhat...
As for realistic for being a FPS then yes I can critisise it - it wasn't a good game for a number of reasons: lack of physics among them!
You can critizize it all you want, but lack of physics is a stupid reson considering that physics engines didn't exist at the time. Let me put it this way, what if I said packman sucked because it didn't have bump-mapping?
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
It's my opinion that the only way to get that fealing of personality is for the NPCs to be individually crafted by humans. You just can't do that with a computer, no matter how much fancy new tech you have.
Fair enough - but keep in mind that humans would be the ones to craft the tech. It is possible.
In therory it is possible, but the personalization just isn't possible when it's not an individualised thing.
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas said:
Well that can be done with RAI...
Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!
Unless they decide to put children in RadiantAI will not work in the context I was referring to.
I may be wrong of course as I'm only basing my understanding of RadientAI on the slew of info that has been released. So I'm just making educated guesses!
Your realy making annoying blatent assumptions based on a about half of the avilible reasources out there.