Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Vapourware Idea for a d100 system.

odrzut

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
1,082
Location
Poland
I mostly play d&d-like d20 systems and d100 systems like Call of Cthulhu or Warhammer and I like both families for different reasons. Recently I had an idea how to combine them in hopefully interesting way.

Attributes range from -90 to +90 and are simply added to each d100 roll that uses them. I'd probably steal D&D attributes with minor changes (something like Strength, Coordination, Reflex, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, Empathy, Will).

Each action/reaction you do you use 2 attributes - first for success roll and second for effect roll (but you roll just once - the roll for effect uses inverted digits from the roll for success).

Instead of skills, attacks, spells, saving throws etc. there are just actions and reactions of different types. Whenever you make action on an opponent he can choose one of matching reactions (if he knows any that match).

For example:

action: Punch
type: unarmed nonmagical melee attack
to succeed: Coordination
to effect: Strength
effects:
< 0: 1 points of bludgeoning damage
< 50: 2 points of bludgeoning damage
>= 50: 3 points of bludgeoning damage and knocked prone

reaction: Dodge Melee
works on: nonmagical melee attack
to resist: Reflex
to effect: Coordination
effects:
< 0: you dodged
< 50: you dodged and can move by 1 hex
>= 50: you dodged and can throw your opponent prone onto any nearby hex

reaction: Block
works on: nonmagical unarmed melee attack
to resist: Coordination
to effect: Constitution
effects:
< 0: you take half the damage
< 50: you and opponent both take half the damage
>= 50: you take 0 damage and opponent gets half the damage

attacker and defender both roll d100 and add their relevant attribute, whose result was higher - succeeds and his effect happens. The winner inverts digits in his d100 roll and adds the relevant effect attribute to see what the effect was.

If opponent doesn't do any reaction - action succeeds automatically but you still roll for effect.

Effects doesn't have to be 3 possible options, it can be more with different ranges, or even formulas for damage:

action: Firebolt
type: ranged elemental bullet spell attack
to succeed: Coordination
to effect: Will
effects:
result/10 points of fire damage, minimum 1

reaction: Counterspell
works on: spell
to succeed: Will
to effect: Intelligence
effects:
<0 : spell is delayed till next round
<30 : spell fails but oponent regains the spell slot
<60 : spell fails
>= 60: spell gets casted but you determine the target

When you do rolls without opponent for stuff that would be skills or attribute rolls in D&D (climbing, perception, strength, etc.) DM sets the opposing target number and possible effects. Default difficulty is 50 and default range for effects is <0 / <50 / >=50 with effect for <0 usually being "success but at what cost" and >=50 "critical success".

There's also possibility of stored rolls. When you hide or craft an item or prepare a trap - you roll for success and effect normally and it gets stored in that item/trap/your stealth. Then when the thing is triggered - your stored roll is used against the target.

What do you think? Is it too complicated? I like the fact it's fast (2 rolls for any action/reaction pair and it's split between DM and player so it should happen faster than rolling for to hit and then for damage). It's also quite flexible and consistent. And nonmagical characters have stuff to learn in late game and meaningfull decisions to make instead of "I do 3 attacks again". But that's just theory.
 

Kev Inkline

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
5,111
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Maybe you'd like to consult RuneQuest's latest edition for inspiration. It has a pretty meticulous action/reaction:crit/fumble system, based on Chaosioum's 3D6 stats and D100.
 

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
11,239
Location
In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Your proposal is inconsistent, especially in regards to stats. In every game published that I've seen the ranges are 0 and up. There is no negative stats since that indicates you being dead.

Using two attributes for action and reaction, but one a single die roll. Are you planning on having action being high equals good and reaction being low equals good? That's what you're going to get in most rolls.

My suggestion is to look at Basic Role Playing since it's a percentile system and see how they put it all together.
 
Last edited:

odrzut

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
1,082
Location
Poland
Use D20s instead. Nothing you are doing requires the higher granularity that d100s offer.

I have to use d100 to save 1 roll by inverting the digits for effect. You cannot do that with d20 or d12. Also I prefer many possible results to failure/success/critical success and the effect range system gives me more flexibility when designing spells and actions. In this system how good your attributes are change how often you get "critical successes".

There is no negative stats since that indicates you being dead.

If you're average your strength is 0, if your weaker than average you get negative strength, what's inconsistent about that? It avoids the d20 confusion between attributes vs attribute modifiers and dividing by 2 to change from one to the another. Also character development can be done after each session like in Call of Cthulhu because there's more space to grow. I guess I could scale attributes to 0-100 range, but then math for rolling becomes frustrating.

Are you planning on having action being high equals good and reaction being low equals good? That's how you're going to get in most rolls.

Rolling higher always is better in this system for both players. Example: I Punch, you Dodge.

I rolled 65 + 10 Coordination = 75 you rolled 51 + 30 Reflex = 81. 81 is higher than 75 so you dodged. No need to substract anything. Now to see what happens I take your roll 51, invert digits to get 15, add your Coordination of +20 to get 35 and look up the effect in your reaction - you dodged and can move 1 hex as a bonus effect.

If I rolled 75 instead my roll to succeed would be 85 which is higher than your 81 so I hit you, to see how much I invert 75 to get 57, add my Strength of -5 to get 52 and look up the effect - I hit for 3 points and knocked you prone.

Maybe you'd like to consult RuneQuest's latest edition for inspiration. It has a pretty meticulous action/reaction:crit/fumble system, based on Chaosioum's 3D6 stats and D100.

Will do.
 
Last edited:

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
11,239
Location
In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Use D20s instead. Nothing you are doing requires the higher granularity that d100s offer.

I have to use d100 to save 1 roll by inverting the digits for effect. You cannot do that with d20 or d12. Also I prefer many possible results to failure/success/critical success and the effect range system gives me more flexibility when designing spells and actions.

There is no negative stats since that indicates you being dead.

There are negative stats in some systems, but even if not - so what? If you're average your strength is 0, if your weaker than average you get negative strength, what's inconsistent about that? It avoids the d20 confusion between attributes vs attribute modifiers and dividing by 2 to change from one to the another. Also character development can be done after each session like in Call of Cthulhu because there's more space to grow.

Are you planning on having action being high equals good and reaction being low equals good? That's how you're going to get in most rolls.

Rolling higher always is better in this system for both players. Example: I Punch, you Dodge.

I rolled 65 + 10 Coordination = 75 you rolled 51 + 30 Reflex = 81. 81 is higher than 75 so you dodged. No need to substract anything. Now to see what happens I take your roll 51, invert digits to get 15, add your Coordination of +20 to get 35 and look up the effect in your reaction - you dodged with no bonus effects.

If I rolled 75 instead my roll to succeed would be 85 which is higher than your 81 so I hit you, to see how much I invert 75 to get 57, add my Strength of -5 to get 52 and look up the effect - I hit for 3 points and knocked you prone.

1. You can do it, but the question is why? If you want degrees then you can use it as a scale of roll -50 below the roll is a critical failure, but a +50 above the roll is a critical success. You still get the same effect, but without the confusion.

2. If your Strength is 0 then you can't lift anything or move anything. You have no strength. You don't need to do it according to Liggers of the Woke's fake D&D system either. In most systems you have a range of attributes that grant specific penalties or bonuses depending upon the value. In AD&D 2E a 3 Strength is -3 to hit, -1 damage, 5 pounds of weight allowed, 10 pounds of max press, open doors on 2 or less on 1d20, 0% chance to bend bars and lift gates. While an 18 (100) Strength is +3 to hit, +6 damage, 335 pounds of weight allowed, 480 pounds of max press, 16 or less to open a normal door and 6 or less to open a magically sealed door, and a 40% chance to bend bars and lift gates. That's a separation of 14 attribute levels.

You can decide to not use levels, but rather use a point system to improve your character ala GURPS and Hero System. In a percentile based system you have to determine what is the average for a normal human and go from there. A word a warning about numbers inflation. It doesn't work. Just because you use bigger numbers for everything as representative of growth and everything else grows with it then you've done the opposite of what you wanted. You've made a scaling system where growth means nothing.

For example, if you have hit points go up by thousands and your weapons go up along the same scale then you've achieved nothing other then having unwieldly numbers to figure through. Just because you use a 1-200 spread doesn't mean in the end that you actually have a big spread. All you did is inflate the number to seem "awesome".

3. Now why would you want to invert the number? To avoid having to roll one other time? You've effectively saved no time by doing it this way.

Are you wanting everything to be an opposed roll? If you do it's rather wasteful and time consuming. It's better to limit opposed rolls for only specific situations and use bonuses and penalties for everything else. It's a standard practice because it works.

Look, I'm trying to help you here since I've been building RPG systems for the better part of 40 years now. I want you to succeed in this endeavor which is why I asked the questions I did. I want you to absorb the mechanics from multiple systems to see how things were done and to see what you can improve on. That's why I've run and played over 50 systems in my lifetime. Some were great and some were awful. Some were quick to pick up and others were too much of a hassle. (Looks at Aftermath!.)

People that design systems with a gimmick rarely are played for long. That's because they're too cumbersome to run at the table.
 
Last edited:

odrzut

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
1,082
Location
Poland
You are fundamentally just rolling 2 d10s, the first for success/failure and the second for how significant the effect. You can say it is really "just one roll", and you do have a fractional addition to the result from the other die roll, but the players are still rolling 2 d10s where one dice determines one thing and the other dice determines another. No reason it couldn't be 2 rolls of some other dice instead.

Ah, I see what you meant. If you already know you roll 2d10 it takes no more time than rolling 1d20. I like this more because this unifies d&d mess with attack+damage on different dices vs opposed rolls vs saving throws + damage into always rolling opposed rolls on the same set of dices. I think in practice it would be significantly faster because both DM and player already know what to roll before they decide which action they want to take, only the attributes and effects change between rounds.

1. You can do it, but the question is why? If you want degrees then you can use it as a scale of roll -50 below the roll is a critical failure, but a +50 above the roll is a critical success. You still get the same effect, but without the confusion.

Then you have to substract non-round numbers which is mentally much harder than addition. Dark Heresy tried to avoid this with only counting difference between tens, but it was still ugly. Also then 1 attribute determines both how likely you are to hit and how much effect it has (and on the opponent side both how difficult he is to hit and how big the effects of hitting him are). I prefer these to be split so I can design attacks and spells that are different in more dimensions and fine-tune them independently. Also then there's no way to make a character that minmaxes 1 attribute :)

Confusion is what I was worried about because it's different from popular systems, but it's very consistent internally so I think once players get it it shouldn't be that bad.

If your Strength is 0 then you can't lift anything or move anything.

If your hitpoints are -2 you are dead, right :) It's just a convention, I use a different one and have a reason for it. AD&D was a complete mess btw :) But I agree this critique has a point, some people might find it strange.

Now why would you want to invert the number? To avoid having to roll one other time? You've effectively saved no time by doing it this way.

Yes, it saves time (I played a lot of Warhammer where it's used for determining where on the enemy body you hit and it works).

A word a warning about numbers inflation. It doesn't work.

I'm not doing -90..+90 with 5 increments because big numbers look nice. I'm doing it because it allows instant mental math and saves time.

Sorry if I was too defensive I asked for your opinions in the first place and I'm in the honey moon period of this idea :) Thanks for feedback, I will continue anyway.
 
Last edited:

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
11,118
Location
USSR
If you're average your strength is 0
The idea is fine. D&D's 10 is basically 0. The tradition is to have a positive number be the effective 0. Sawyer even got shit for wanting 0 to be 0, and he had to cave in, but it's just aesthetics.

If your hitpoints are -2 you are dead, right :)
Not in all games, even. There's another somewhat popular convention that from -9 to 0 you're just unconscious and bleeding. Dead only at -10.
 

Matalarata

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
2,646
Location
The threshold line
Frankly? I've been GM'ing Chaosium systems for 20+ years. I like the percentile rolls in CoC but they are cumbersome. Rolling one die at a time only works on a physical table and it still causes additional lag, believe me.

CoC needs them because it's an investigative game in which you play a relatively normie human character, granularization is great both for in-depth descriptions of the effects of rolls and to develop characters more organically (as you pointed out, it's done off-session). Still, untill the advent of 7th edition, bonus and malus dice and the new opposed rolls which replaced the old table, they could have probably done all that in a d20 system. It's just faster.


That said, just do it. You'll never understand what I'm talking about untill you've had this going for a year or two of campaigning. My suggestion, immediately enforce some common ground rules, like using different coloured dice for 00 and 0 (no, simple double digits won't do) that way everyone at the table can easily read rolls and you can have players simply roll two dice at once. Having them roll one and then another if the first lands on a sensile number is just doubling the time you need for said roll.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom