Interesting post on ESF about Daggerfall.

[bryce777]

I say we hog tie him and pull a train on him with bedstands.

lol

beat him with a bar of soap in a towel, sure. I am not so sure I like the sound of a 'train', though.

 

[LlamaGod]

which one of the names on here is Todd

we need to give him an avatar thats a picture of blades of grass. Present to him to the market he wants.

Retarded preteens and gardeners.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Seems to me, that doing both is like spitting on each and everyone one of our faces and then asking us to show you respect. Although I am not taking account into what you actually do there, given the fact Bethesda is your employer I don't really care, since there are no games coming out of Bethesda worth buying.

People spit into each others and everyone else's eyes constantly here, so why shouldn't Kathode?

I for one would be very interested on what the sentiment among Bethesda developers about the criticism really is. They may rightfully totally dismiss it, after all they have rave reviews from 90% of all sites, great sales, and happy fans.
Or maybe not, because they must notice that many of the most ardent forum fans have turned a cold shoulder on Oblivion. I would be curious, but I doubt they either can or are are inclined to talk about that at all.

 

[Rat Keeng]

zomg call the Codex police, there's a Bethie on the loose!

And I think maybe whatever creative devs might be left over at Bethesda have just accepted the fact, that creating new ideas isn't profitable, and that it's better to be revered by a horde of next-gen kids (y'know, the chocolate milk generation), who don't even care who developed the games they play, than to have some silly amount of respect from a small group of hardcore fans that love your work, and to have your work be acknowledged as more than "An amazing breakthrough in how we think about grass in computer games".

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

I'm too much of a neophyte to have a beef with Kathode, but I am really stumped as to why he chose to pop in.

 

[Twinfalls]

Gavin's orright. He came up with that 'perform a play' mini-quest in Tribunal that at least was a ray of creativity amongst the dullness of Morrowind.

Pity he got relegated to accountant or whatever the fuck it was he did for Oblivion.

 

[Zomg]

It's a privilege earned with infrequent posting at a forum after attaining a brand identity there: You can swoop in and handpick a particularly stupid or unfunny thing to pounce on.

 

[Twinfalls]

No.

 

[crufty]

I for one would be very interested on what the sentiment among Bethesda developers about the criticism really is....great sales...I would be curious, but I doubt they either can or are are inclined to talk about that at all.

I imagine the sentiment to be:

Mo' Money Mo' Money Mo' Money!

Witness the purchasable mods. Sure some devs, perhaps those like mr smileyfacedude (Who I wouldn't blame for never posting here again) might be thinking, well, we would have liked to have done more, but...Mo Money Mo Money Mo Money!

 

[Twinfalls]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop- ... 50-7856630

 

[hiciacit]

"If the 'improvements' that went into making Oblivion were applied to the game of chess it would be a game played with 32 queens and based on the premiss that the king was already dead."

That one made me laugh.

 

[denizsi]

People spit into each others and everyone else's eyes constantly here, so why shouldn't Kathode?

I for one would be very interested on what the sentiment among Bethesda developers about the criticism really is. They may rightfully totally dismiss it, after all they have rave reviews from 90% of all sites, great sales, and happy fans.
Or maybe not, because they must notice that many of the most ardent forum fans have turned a cold shoulder on Oblivion. I would be curious, but I doubt they either can or are are inclined to talk about that at all

Considering all that's been done, that's quite an unnecessary and naive dose of neutrality towards them.

 

[Lumpy]

People spit into each others and everyone else's eyes constantly here, so why shouldn't Kathode?

I for one would be very interested on what the sentiment among Bethesda developers about the criticism really is. They may rightfully totally dismiss it, after all they have rave reviews from 90% of all sites, great sales, and happy fans.
Or maybe not, because they must notice that many of the most ardent forum fans have turned a cold shoulder on Oblivion. I would be curious, but I doubt they either can or are are inclined to talk about that at all

Considering all that's been done, that's quite an unnecessary and naive dose of neutrality towards them.

What has been done?

 

[Rhombus]

Kathode is the brave... :O

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

I for one would be very interested on what the sentiment among Bethesda developers about the criticism really is....great sales...I would be curious, but I doubt they either can or are are inclined to talk about that at all.

I imagine the sentiment to be:

Mo' Money Mo' Money Mo' Money!

Witness the purchasable mods. Sure some devs, perhaps those like mr smileyfacedude (Who I wouldn't blame for never posting here again) might be thinking, well, we would have liked to have done more, but...Mo Money Mo Money Mo Money!

I suspect that might be true for the project lead, marketing, and certainly the Zenimax suits. I don't believe for a moment that that is how the individual developers feel.

Considering all that's been done, that's quite an unnecessary and naive dose of neutrality towards them.

They made a game some of us don't like. Most of you expected not to like it from the beginning. Screaming and spitting is not gonna convince anyone, it's useless. Conversation may be useless too, but it is a darn sight more pleasant, and at least potentially useful. I don't believe in lynching, I leave that to the RPG-Klux-Klan.

 

[denizsi]

What has been done?

Everything about Oblivion ? And Morrowind before that, but to a much lesser degree, of course.

They made a game some of us don't like. Most of you expected not to like it from the beginning. Screaming and spitting is not gonna convince anyone, it's useless. Conversation may be useless too, but it is a darn sight more pleasant, and at least potentially useful. I don't believe in lynching, I leave that to the RPG-Klux-Klan.

That some of us like and some of don't like what they've done is irrelevant regarding F3. Is Oblivion a good game on its own, regardless of marketing hype and expectations? For some of us, it is and for some of us, it's not. No problem there. Is Oblivion the cutting edge CRPG? Does it fullfill RPGamers' expectations as an RPG game and nothing else (not as an arcade game, not as an exploration sim etc.)? Hell no. But, didn't Bethesda promote the game as the next big shit in CRPGaming? And doesn't the devs' attitudes and words show that they really believe in that crap? Yes and yes.

Now, which category does original Fallout series fall into? I had some expectations for Oblivion, but not too high. I was just expecting a decent Action-RPG game. I behaved myself until I got to experience it for myself. So F3 may turn out to be a decent game on its own, just like Oblivion. But it won't be anything resembling the original series, or anything even resembling a decent RPG, just like Oblivion.

Conclusion? Beth shouldn't ever fucking dare call F3 an RPG, or a successor to the original series and claim picking it up where original series left. They may, however, call it a successor to Tactics or BoS. However, we do know that they will do the former, but people (fans of the original series) don't just want a FO imitation with the name tag on it. So, need I explain more?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

First off, FO3 is gonna blow chunks worse than that chick when I spooged down her throat. Secondly, and this is to the man/woman/TS who asked about the meaning of the all-powerful "train". I'm surprised at you. The Train is when you have one girl, who lies on her back, or gets on all fours, depending on the flavor of the user, and gets fucked by one guy after another. Never than more at once, and always in the vagina, with no rest for her in between fucks. To pull a train is for one guy to go, then another, then another, then another, all the way up to 20 or so. A gangbang is quite different, as it involves a woman with multiple male partners at the SAME TIME, and not in order.

 

[Blahblah Talks]

That some of us like and some of don't like what they've done is irrelevant regarding F3.

Sure it is. They have clearly shown a tendancy for several different design philosophies (e.g. dumbed down/more accessible; cross-platform similarities presumably to save development time/expense - save games and UI; and most importantly for me, pay-to-play official mods, and nerfing of the CS). There is every reason to believe that these design philosophies will be used in the development of FO3, where applicable. Those that like those changes in philosophy, or rather, their effect on the final product, will be more likely to enjoy FO3.

Conclusion? Beth shouldn't ever fucking dare call F3 an RPG, or a successor to the original series and claim picking it up where original series left.

Yes, but you know they will. C'mon, does anyone expect Pete to come out and say, "Fallout 3 will represent a departure from the orignal series. We plan to take all the lessons we learned [ha!] from the development of Oblivion, the number 1 RPG of 2006, and apply it to FO3 and make the best post-apocalyptic RPG ever. And this time, the RAI will allow you to set mutant dogs on fire."

Oblivion was like Star Wars Episode I. We had high expectations and were severely disappointed. Fallout 3 will be like Episode 3. We will have very low expectations, and so have a chance, however small, of being impressed. That is, if we even bother with it.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

What has been done?

Everything about Oblivion ? And Morrowind before that, but to a much lesser degree, of course.

They made a game some of us don't like. Most of you expected not to like it from the beginning. Screaming and spitting is not gonna convince anyone, it's useless. Conversation may be useless too, but it is a darn sight more pleasant, and at least potentially useful. I don't believe in lynching, I leave that to the RPG-Klux-Klan.

That some of us like and some of don't like what they've done is irrelevant regarding F3. Is Oblivion a good game on its own, regardless of marketing hype and expectations? For some of us, it is and for some of us, it's not. No problem there. Is Oblivion the cutting edge CRPG? Does it fullfill RPGamers' expectations as an RPG game and nothing else (not as an arcade game, not as an exploration sim etc.)? Hell no. But, didn't Bethesda promote the game as the next big shit in CRPGaming? And doesn't the devs' attitudes and words show that they really believe in that crap? Yes and yes.

Now, which category does original Fallout series fall into? I had some expectations for Oblivion, but not too high. I was just expecting a decent Action-RPG game. I behaved myself until I got to experience it for myself. So F3 may turn out to be a decent game on its own, just like Oblivion. But it won't be anything resembling the original series, or anything even resembling a decent RPG, just like Oblivion.

Conclusion? Beth shouldn't ever fucking dare call F3 an RPG, or a successor to the original series and claim picking it up where original series left. They may, however, call it a successor to Tactics or BoS. However, we do know that they will do the former, but people (fans of the original series) don't just want a FO imitation with the name tag on it. So, need I explain more?

That's all fine and dandy, but how is all this an argument for not listening to what they (Bethesda) have to say about it? I.e., how is what I said about hearing their opinions an "unecessary and naive dose of neutrality"?

And where did FO3 come into the discussion?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Draky wacky jacky me, that's the whole point of this discussion: how won't Beth boys fuck FO3.

 

[ad hominem]

Oblivion was like Star Wars Episode I. We had high expectations and were severely disappointed. Fallout 3 will be like Episode 3. We will have very low expectations, and so have a chance, however small, of being impressed. That is, if we even bother with it.

If you can set Hayden Christensen on fire, I am buying F3 the day it comes out.

 

[MINIGUNWIELDER]

Gavin's orright. He came up with that 'perform a play' mini-quest in Tribunal that at least was a ray of creativity amongst the dullness of Morrowind.

Pity he got relegated to accountant or whatever the fuck it was he did for Oblivion.

Agreed

 

[bryce777]

That's all fine and dandy, but how is all this an argument for not listening to what they (Bethesda) have to say about it? I.e., how is what I said about hearing their opinions an "unecessary and naive dose of neutrality"?

And where did FO3 come into the discussion?

Just go to the big thread about fallout and troika and see kathode's comment. I got a god L - O - L out of that.

 

[Gambler]

Oblivion was like Star Wars Episode I. We had high expectations and were severely disappointed.

What I don't get is why people here liked Daggerfall that much.

 

[LlamaGod]

Oblivion was like Star Wars Episode I. We had high expectations and were severely disappointed.

What I don't get is why people here liked Daggerfall that much.

They are too full of nostalgia.

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... daggerfall