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Is BT4's funding level a disappointment for inXile?

bloodlover

Arcane
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
2,039
I think without Legend of Grimrock Fargo's The Bard's Tale 4 would get more money as LoG already (at least) partially filled the demand for modern blobber.

On the contrary. I'd say that LoG brought back the blobber back in attention and even made it known to people that are not so much into the genre. I am not sure how the LoG games sold but I guess at least the first one had great sales since they decided to make another one.
 

Whiran

Magister
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
641
Not to mention that it's not like they're even getting the full sum they gather - kickstarter takes its cut, they're probably paying some taxes from that and, of course, they'll have to spend some part of it on the backer rewards. Those may not be the hugest losses, but considering we're talking about a budget which isn't exactly adequate even when it's "full"... ATM, kickstarter is more like a scam & attention whoring hybrid instead of a proper funding platform. At least for the projects of this scale - I mean, I look at the Underworld Ascendant & their promises and I have no clue how can you actually fulfill that on 860k if you're situated in Boston. In a non-checkbox manner, at least.
To put the money thing into perspective.

Kickstarter takes 5% of a successful project's donations. On top of that they pass on the processing fees for payment to the project so that's another 3% - 5%.

That leaves 90% to the project.

Salary, taxes, etc don't come into the equation as an additional deduction compared to any other project with whatever funding. When a company says that a project cost 10 million that 10 million is the total amount before taxes, operational costs, etc.. As such the funding received from a kickstarter campaign is directly comparable to any other project's funding.

If a publisher gives 5 million that's the same as raising 5 million after fees for a kickstarter project. The main difference is that a publisher will expect that money back while the money from kickstarter is their's with no strings attached other than backer rewards.

The pre-sales, excuse me, I mean the donations don't really take from potential profits. In fact, the average price per unit is quite high due to whales happily paying over 100 USD per unit. Kickstarter is a really good way of doing pre-orders from a business perspective since you can get people to pay five times (or more) retail for a product. If you only did pre-sales at the retail price you'd lose out on all that extra money.

Personally, I don't like companies treating kickstarter as a lucrative pre-order marketplace but I can understand the business logic to do so.

inXile made money from Wasteland 2 and they will probably make money from Torment. Assuming that as a business they retain some of their profits to fund future projects / survive bad times then inXile is in a great place financially already. A kickstarter campaign is just a good way to get more money out of fans instead of doing straight up pre-orders.
 

dragonul09

Arcane
Edgy
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,445
The funding itself is not a problem,the choice of making a blobber however, it is.Not many people out there like this type of ''genre'',i myself hate the idea of getting 6-7 companions moving as a single unit and having no tactical position whatsoever.I find this ''genre'' stale,boring and Legend of Grimshit already filled that position,so why bother making a sequel for a game that no one gives a shit and let's be serious,it's another generic garbage can that you will never replay again.
Instead of making a new ip and draw the attention with a more interesting setting or something that will make you go ''oh cool,something new'',you get another run of the mill rpg that will fall into the obscure one week later.

Look at Shadowrun and Conquistador,both were made by a bunch of ''amateurs'' and they are mile ahead of PoE and Wasteland 2...
 

Morkar Left

Guest
People have already experienced what a blobber is with Legends of Grimrock. And I guess it was exciting at first but really old because of lack of story and interaction with rpgs. LoG 2 sold poorly because of this I think. Now people have in their mind that oldschool first-person view with party means dungeon master / legend of grimrock style.

Personally I had always the impression that first person party rpgs need to step up their game and become more like Baldur's Gate / Fallout regarding world, story and npc interaction to be successful (without compromising the dungeon exploration and character systems). That never happened so far. I hope that Bard's Tale can pull this off as well as Dungeons of Aledorn.
 

prodigydancer

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
1,399
Look at Shadowrun and Conquistador,both were made by a bunch of ''amateurs'' and they are mile ahead of PoE and Wasteland 2...
Shadowrun was a nice little game and some of the UGCs are fun too but WL2 and PoE are way better. Though of course if you're a dedicated modder having an toolset > everything else.
 
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dragonul09

Arcane
Edgy
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,445
Look at Shadowrun and Conquistador,both were made by a bunch of ''amateurs'' and they are mile ahead of PoE and Wasteland 2...
Shadowrun was a nice little game and some of the UGCs are fun too but WL2 and PoE are way better. Though of course if you're a dedicated modder having an toolset > everything else.
Way better? In what department? Storyline,writting,gameplay?
 
Self-Ejected

theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
6-7 companions moving as a single unit and having no tactical position whatsoever.

Played Wizardry 8 ? It got tactical positions, even as a blobber. And the japanese Wizardries have at least frontrows/backrows.

That said, I'd be hugely disappointed, if Bards Tale 4 would not feature tactical positions...
 

prodigydancer

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
1,399
Way better? In what department? Storyline,writting,gameplay?
Story: PoE > SRD ~ WL2 > SRR. Sorry, Dragonfall's story simply does not compute. In a world of powerful entities and all-permeating espionage there's a group of fanatics that has been operating for years and is about to blow everything to hell without anyone noticing? Wow, that's believable. This also applies to Dead Man's Switch but it additionally suffers from being disjointed (the second half of the campaign has little to do with the first).

Writing: WL2 > PoE > SR. HBS is still better than Larian but writing isn't their strong suit.

Characters: PoE > WL2 > SRR > SRD. Yeah, characters in Dragonfall are atrociously bland. Especially CNPCs with their awkward backstories. Those felt like a bunch of someone's PnP characters hastily adapted for the game.

Subquests: WL2 > PoE > SR. In fact SR games don't have sidequests at all, they have (linear and straightforward) missions.

World: SR > WL2 > PoE. OK, Shadowrun wins this one obviously. HBS didn't invent the setting though.

Gameplay: PoE > WL2 ~ SR. Flawed as they are, the core systems in Pillars are more sophisticated and allow more versatility during combat.

And there are other things that drag SR games down: almost non-existent inventory/itemization, linearity, lack of C&C.
 
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DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,398
It also didn't exactly grew over the years - as a matter of fact, after the initial honey-moon period, it even shrinked a bit and became rather barren for the indie-devs. For the major guys it stagnated at best - I mean, look at the bard's tale IV. Sure, they've almost reached their goal, but I bet they expected much more than that. Not to mention that their goal is pure obfuscation and of course they need much more than 1.25kk to create a proper Bard's Tale IV.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iga/bloodstained-ritual-of-the-night/description
5.7 millions

Kickstarter is moved by popularity too Platformer fans > Fallout fans > Blobbers fans > Bard's Tale fans. I'm more impressed they managed to make 1.25 millions right now instead of taking 30 days to make the money.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,230
Look at Shadowrun and Conquistador,both were made by a bunch of ''amateurs'' and they are mile ahead of PoE and Wasteland 2...
Shadowrun was a nice little game and some of the UGCs are fun too but WL2 and PoE are way better. Though of course if you're a dedicated modder having an toolset > everything else.
Way better? In what department? Storyline,writting,gameplay?
Sales. Only thing that matters in the end and keeps the companies working and producing.
 

dragonul09

Arcane
Edgy
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,445
Look at Shadowrun and Conquistador,both were made by a bunch of ''amateurs'' and they are mile ahead of PoE and Wasteland 2...
Shadowrun was a nice little game and some of the UGCs are fun too but WL2 and PoE are way better. Though of course if you're a dedicated modder having an toolset > everything else.
Way better? In what department? Storyline,writting,gameplay?
Sales. Only thing that matters in the end and keeps the companies working and producing.
Shadowrun sold more in the first weeks than PoE and Wasteland 2 so i don't see your point...
 

Jarpie

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
6,614
Codex 2012 MCA
I think without Legend of Grimrock Fargo's The Bard's Tale 4 would get more money as LoG already (at least) partially filled the demand for modern blobber.

On the contrary. I'd say that LoG brought back the blobber back in attention and even made it known to people that are not so much into the genre. I am not sure how the LoG games sold but I guess at least the first one had great sales since they decided to make another one.

I meant that If it'd been The Bard's Tale 4 which brought back the blobbers then they'd gotten more so far as there'd be more demand for the game like it.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,230
Look at Shadowrun and Conquistador,both were made by a bunch of ''amateurs'' and they are mile ahead of PoE and Wasteland 2...
Shadowrun was a nice little game and some of the UGCs are fun too but WL2 and PoE are way better. Though of course if you're a dedicated modder having an toolset > everything else.
Way better? In what department? Storyline,writting,gameplay?
Sales. Only thing that matters in the end and keeps the companies working and producing.
Shadowrun sold more in the first weeks than PoE and Wasteland 2 so i don't see your point...
You got any proof?
 

SniperHF

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
1,110
Might just have to be a short-ish game?

I don't think this would be the worst experience for the folks at InXile. You make a short game it needs to have a tighter design and since BT isn't a story heavy deal like TToN that means the encounters, puzzles, quests and atmosphere need to be really cohesive. When you have a massive game like WL2 it's a lot easier for someone to overlook a bad area for a better one. If BT4 is a 20 hour dungeon dive that could be a great opportunity for this particular wing of InXile to refine their craft in those areas.
 
Self-Ejected

theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
If it's short but offers more replay value, it's fine with me.
 
Self-Ejected

theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
On a sidenote... the kickstarter is certainly not a disappointment. In contrary, the kickstarter is even more a NON-disappointment because:

1) meaningless kickstarter pitch
2) the game being a niche of a niche
3) people still don't know shit about the game
4) despite they pledged over one million
5) only boring stretchgoals
6) developers hardly present in comments section

Now try that for your own kickstarter... and ask again if it's a disappointment. You'd be lucky to get 100$
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
1.25 mil in like 10-15 days for a TB blobber in 2015 and we call this a "disappointment"?
Come on people, be real
 

buzz

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2012
Messages
4,234
According to kicktraq, the average sum of pledges per day right now is a bit bigger than Wasteland 2 and smaller by 50k than Torment. And the average amount of backers per day is also halfway through.

So yeah, it's not doing too shabby. But it does confirm a bit of my doubts about kickstarter as a lucrative business model in the future. Considering that Wasteland 2 received a pretty decent reception overall, what happens when they'll have their first major flop? What happens when some of the big kickstarter fail to deliver again?


The fact that some of the recent big moneymakers were people who worked on Castlevania, Megaman and Donkey Kong are making the big bucks now, devs who by all means were already doing fine in their departments, says a lot. I mean, Castlevania and Megaman games were made as recent as 2008/2010, not exactly the most "missed" of genres (not to mention all the indies who did pretty good jobs in making spiritual successors as well). What's next, Hideo Kojima getting many millions so he can make a cinematic stealth game?

At the end of day, kickstarter has slowly but surely started to get a bad rep. It has slowly become the next awful thing devs and publishers do to fuck customers in the ass, after DLC and forced multiplayer. I mean, we're reaping some benefits but to what extent? Look how many people shit and mock PoE when a few years ago we wouldn't even DREAM of having a game of sorts ever made again.
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Very few people mock PoE outside of "supreme RPG boards" to be honest. It was a really good game for what it was.
As for Kickstarter being a good model, think about this: If inXile made BT4 without crowdfunding, would it even sell for 1 million? I highly doubt that to be honest...
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,241
Bard is doing extremely well for what it really is - a sequel in an extremely niche genre to a forgotten franchise. It was predictable from the start it cant' do as well as Wasteland or Torment, these two had rabid fanbases and organized fan communites all over the place. Bard, well that's just something we played when we were 8.
 

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