Is there any value in allowing characters to walk rather than run in an isometric RPG?

[rusty_shackleford]

During the development of InXile's Torment, I asked one of the devs why the party members only had run animations [no walking state], and the dev shamelessly admitted to not understanding why it was needed. Imagine them trying to make a classic RPG like Fallout or Planescape—with that and all the other things they'd not understand the need for.

good response from the dev

 

[Glop_dweller]

...good response from the dev

Ignorant response from the dev. Aside from making an RPG [and hence a PC that cannot walk, and so will obviously act out of character at times], they were also making a followup to Planescape, which even had a [pseudo] quest that required not running; (the acquired disguise [make-up] would be ruined if Nameless ran while wearing it).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

...good response from the dev

Ignorant response from the dev. Aside from making an RPG [and hence a PC that cannot walk, and so will act out of character at times], they were also making a followup to Planescape, which even had a quest that required not running.

good response, people who turn on walking in video games just so they can "roleplay" are weirdos

 

[Glop_dweller]

...good response, people who turn on walking in video games just so they can "roleplay" are weirdos

There shouldn't be the option to turn it off, and ideally the game should take running/walking into account with NPC reactions, and with skill checks.

But of course that's not the point... The guy just assumed that no one would ever walk when they could run; and the scope of the game lost any potential use from the ability to walk slowly or carefully. The utter nonsense that a party would run through a minefield—for lack of the ability to walk.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

...good response, people who turn on walking in video games just so they can "roleplay" are weirdos

There shouldn't be the option to turn it off, and ideally the game should take running/walking into account with NPC reactions, and with skill checks.

"wow you're running?! HOW COULD YOU RUN SOMEWHERE?! THIS WILL AFFECT ALL MY INTERACTIONS WITH YOU!!! I HATE PEOPLE WHO MOVE FAST!!!"

what

 

[Glop_dweller]

"wow you're running?! HOW COULD YOU RUN SOMEWHERE?! THIS WILL AFFECT ALL MY INTERACTIONS WITH YOU!!! I HATE PEOPLE WHO MOVE FAST!!!"

what

Hardly. It —should— affect perception in the very least, and increase or decrease noise level; it'd be nice if NPCs would notice [sometime] inappropriate behaviors of party members, like sneaking, and running. RPGs are what the PCs would do in situ, and some situations should call for walking, some for running—some for not running.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"wow you're running?! HOW COULD YOU RUN SOMEWHERE?! THIS WILL AFFECT ALL MY INTERACTIONS WITH YOU!!! I HATE PEOPLE WHO MOVE FAST!!!"

what

Hardly. It —should— affect perception in the very least; it'd be nice if NPCs would notice inappropriate behaviors of party members, like sneaking, and running. RPGs are what the PCs would do in situ, and some situations should call for walking.

"make the game worse or suffer a penalty!"
no
there's literally nothing stopping you from using cheat engine to slow the game down to 5% of normal speed and enjoy your autistic fantasies or whatever

 

[Glop_dweller]

That's what RPGs do; statistically evaluate when to say, 'No'.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

That's what RPGs do; statistically evaluate when to say, 'No'.

I demand RPGs require you sit there and watch your character sleep for 8 hours in real time or else they are bad games.

 

[Glop_dweller]

I demand RPGs require you sit there and watch your character sleep for 8 hours in real time or else they are bad games.

WTH for? If they sleep, they sleep; if they walk 50 miles on the overland map, then fine—no need to depict it all, unless an encounter happens.

But I liked the way Realms of Arkania handled it. The PC was better off if they packed camping equipment, shoes, and blankets—else roll for disease while sleeping on the ground, and perhaps in the rain; they could stumble off cliffs in the mountains.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I demand RPGs require you sit there and watch your character sleep for 8 hours in real time or else they are bad games.

WTH for? If they sleep, they sleep; if they walk 50 miles on the overland map, then fine—no need to depict it all, unless an encounter happens.

because characters need to sleep or else they can't function properly

yeah as it turns out modeling everything isn't fun, just like having characters that move slow isn't fun

 

[Glop_dweller]

yeah as it turns out modeling everything isn't fun, just like having characters that move slow isn't fun

Modeling everything is pointlessly excessive; depicting distinct movement during player action is not.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

yeah as it turns out modeling everything isn't fun, just like having characters that move slow isn't fun

Modeling everything is pointlessly excessive; depicting movement during player action is not.

requiring players to move slow or miss details, something you yourself supported, is a shit design decision that falls under "muh realism"

 

[Glop_dweller]

...requiring players to move slow or miss details, something you yourself supported, is a shit design decision that falls under "muh realism"

I disagree [entirely]. The game should depict only what the player character can manage to perceive; and different degrees, depending upon stats. [Especially in the case of traps, or concealed doors.]

A PC should not be able to run through areas and fill out a detailed automap, for instance... Because the PC would not be able to do that. From a roleplay perspective, running into a trapped room should increase the chance of triggering a hidden trap.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

...requiring players to move slow or miss details, something you yourself supported, is a shit design decision that falls under "muh realism"

I disagree [entirely]. The game should depict only what the player character can manage to perceive; and different degrees, depending upon stats. [Especially in the case of traps, or concealed doors.]

A PC should not be able to run through areas and fill out a detailed automap, for instance... Because the PC would not be able to do that.

The PC also shouldn't be able to stay awake for long periods without 8 hours of sleep that you must observe in real time.

 

[Glop_dweller]

The PC also shouldn't be able to stay awake for long periods without 8 hours of sleep that you must observe in real time.

Well I obviously agree with the first half of that, but the latter half is nonsense. Though they should incur stat & skill penalties for lack of rest.

Let me guess... In Baldur's Gate 1 or 2, you didn't disable group infravision even though not all party members had infravision, and it meant that the player could see (and exploit) with nightblind PCs.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The PC also shouldn't be able to stay awake for long periods without 8 hours of sleep that you must observe in real time.

Well I obviously agree with the first half of that, but the latter half is nonsense. Though they should incur stat & skill penalties for lack of rest.

It's nonsense because you don't like it. Your character demands sleep!

 

[Glop_dweller]

It's nonsense because you don't like it. Your character demands sleep!

Now you're just being sardonic.

It would be funny if D&D games actually depicted the party sleeping, studying, and bandaging... but not unskippably so.

Legend of Grimrock actually fades to black during rest, and increases the internal speed of the game time; the monsters do speed around like Benny Hill, if you clear the fade via script. That could be done with an encamped D&D party.

 

[Alienman]

If the game already have walking animations for npcs, what's the issue adding it for player controlled characters? I prefer personally walking over constantly running around everywhere like I'm a zoomer on crack.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's nonsense because you don't like it. Your character demands sleep!

Now you're just being sardonic.

If you think it's OK to skip sleeping, why isn't it similarly OK to skip moving slowly?

 

[Glop_dweller]

Because sleeping only interacts with the game world in cases of surprised awakening... discovery or ambush; and by then they are not sleeping anymore... though [once again] in Realms of Arkania, [IIRC] party members would remain asleep even in combat, until they awake in turn.

No, running depicts the PC's intent; sleeping is —usually— not public, and is generally (even preferably) uneventful.

In the case of realtime movement (even in Fallout), running allows rapid positioning relative to NPC's (including hostile ones); the reverse goes for walking.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Because sleeping only interacts with the game world in cases of surprised awakening... discovery or ambush; and by then they are not sleeping anymore... though [once again] in Realms of Arkania, [IIRC] party members would remain asleep even in combat, until they awake in turn.

No, running depicts the PC's intent; sleeping is —usually— not public, and is generally (even preferably) uneventful.

The PC's intent is to sleep. It's very important. Just like moving slowly, right?

 

[Glop_dweller]

Remember... The RPG should depict what the PC sees, and the PC isn't seeing anything while asleep.

*Except when the game shows a dream.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Remember... The RPG should depict what the PC sees, and the PC isn't seeing anything while asleep.

*Except when the game shows a dream.

8 hours of the screen being black

 

[Glop_dweller]

No need; unlike player movement, there is no point or benefit to watching —nothing—.

*I did have a problem with Elder Scrolls map travel though. It's the reverse; eight hours played out in seconds, with no account for the passing of time. In Oblivion, the game does not account for its effect timers during travel; the PC can buff their strength with a spell that lasts for seconds, then travel across country to distant towns while carrying a maxed out load of weapons, armor, and vegetables intended for sale to a merchant—despite that the spell should have ended seconds after their trip began.