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Jagged Alliance 2, IRONMAN

Mr Happy

Scholar
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
574
Non-Ironman mode is basically bitch ass pansy mode, only fit for gays and little girls. ~ Roqua Montoya, May 19, 2007

This is one of those games that needs to be played at least once with Ironman mode. Why? Because it is all about choices and consequences, and a lot of great features are missed when you're a goddamn pansy who reloads at everything that might possibly be a failure or mistake. That's how I played it the first time, and it was still one of the best games ever, but now, its time. I decided to give it a roll, and considering the success of the last ironman challenge, I thought I'd invite the rest of the crew along.

I know Jagged Alliance 2 (gold at least) already has an optional Ironman mode, but it only prevents you from saving during combat, which basically means you have to deal with the mutilation and potential death of your favorite merc if you aren't careful. For this, same idea, but no save-reload bs, so if your mercs become POWS, Dressen is retaken by Dedreiannea or whatever her name is, a mine runs out of precious metals, town/merc loyalty plummets, Conrad attacks you, you plot a dumb travel route, the merc you hired actually sucks, etc, deal with it. This way, retreating from battles, wearing the "Deidranna rules!" shirt, buying insurance, and not being retarded all can become important tactics. Basically, this way, you have to live with your bad choices and random defeats and actually think about what you are doing.

So, anyway, the basic rules and regulations are pretty much the same as the last time:

1. Save a lot and in different slots, to avoid corruption and so you don't have to play for hours on end. If you screw up though, keep playing, no jumping between saves to see which choices comes out the best. I don't really care how you define losing, I guess if you are in an impossible situation (no money, no mercs, all towns taken back, that sort of thing) but if your main Merc dies, you go one the BOARD OF LOSERS. If you don't make a main merc, you are a tool. I don't really expected anybody to win, but if you do, you get a prize, and go on the BOARD OF THE VICTORIUS. I’ll also throw up a fallen Merc/Npc board.

2. Document your experience with screenshots (Print screen + image shack works fine) and captions at interesting/amusing/relevant points, like your mercs getting blown to bits, blowing up a wall, escaping prison, or shooting crows. I don’t know how to work those fancy grave stone things so if a merc dies (edit) add a sad smily or something

3. You pretty much need to have JA2 to do this, so if you don’t, get it the hell now. Unless you have shit taste, it is one of the best games ever. Among other things, it has the best combat system of any game I’ve ever played, better roleplaying than most rpgs (stats, choices and consequences, non-combat related multiple solutions, reactive world, that sort of stuff), and a pretty kickass crafting system. I recommend playing it non-ironman first, because it is a damn hard game regardless. There is usually a bunch on ebay that come in a “conquest sixpack” from strategy first, comes with JA2 gold, both expansions, and 4 other strategy games. Last time I checked, it was only ten bucks, so you can either buy a bunch of kickass strategy games for a great deal or buy a something awful account and post witty stuff :choices and consequences:

ja2ca9.png


Oh dang, ironman. I actually ended up switching to save anytime, because battles can take a long time, and I’m a busy man.


ja2ft0.png


Alright, here’s Dwade, agile explosives expert extrordinare. I tried to trick the personality test into giving me the stealthy and night-ops traits, but I think I ended up with psychotic and loner or something.


ja2zd2.png



Never used insurance before, but I figure its worth it if there is actually a good chance some of my mercs will bite the dust.

ja22bj7.png


We pretty much took no prisoners upon touchdown in Arulco. Somehow that asswad Hitman got hit on the way in. Also, apparently your mercs get better guns if you choose the Lots of Guns option? Cool. (some how these last to shots came out messed up, the game looks a bit different)


ja22sy4.png


huzzah


More roqua on ironman:

Playing poker for fun with friends can be enjoyable, but playing for cash is much more intense. Playing on Ironman will enhance everything, every point you have to spend on chardev, every dialogue response, every combat choice, etc. When you come to a crossroads in gay mode, you just thing, "how much time will I lose if I reload and do it different?" in Ironman you just focus on the choice. "What would my character do in this situation?" Or "Oh, Shit. If I don't pay attention and play this careful, I'm fucking dead." No second chances, you have to live with your mistakes and try like hell not to make any. Every choice that makes you sweat or second guess yourself is the reward that Ironman mode gives. Every tough combat you barely scrape out of. Or every battle you try like hell to avoid just so you won't die. That leads to real roleplaying. That leads to a real story and a game worth taking the time to play.

So now you know.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
I would gladly join this but currently I'm going through Deadly Games (1st game's expansion). I haven't played it before back when I new to the series, though so far it looks like I hadn't missed much.
 

Callaxes

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
1,676
The dirst time I played JA2, I had a hard time trying to keep the squiad togheter and I didn't finish the game. The second time, I tried to play with just one guy, custom made mercenaries are worthless, so I had to pick between Magic and Tarballs. I picked Magic and I was amazed how easy everything was this time.

I took the New Jersey girl with me to act as bait for enemies waiting for me at corners and stuff like that.

Basicly with a team of just 2 people I managed to beat my way almost Meduna, but by that time, I was rich as hell, so I added Tarballs, Static and the other dudes to my squad. Of course I reloaded almost at every round and - painfull as it was - I still had alot of fun.

This is how you make games, don't try to be the ace of everything. If your RPG is going to have a weak story and little interaction with NPCs, then don't try to fix that, instead compansate with the rest of the gameplay. Jagged Aliiance focuses on one small part of gameplay and simply perfects it.

Also: JA2 > X-COM


Also: Did they ban you yet MrHappy? Or are you a good boy?
 

Blaegis

Novice
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
26
Difficulty level - "Novice"? You'll be stuck with shitty guns until Meduna.
 

Blaegis

Novice
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
26
I decided to give the aforementioned v.1.13 a try as I haven't come across it before - all those guns sounded just too cool to pass by. So here follows a brief and cautionary tale of one Patrick "Hannibal" Bateman - a mercenary who was destined for the massive paychecks of Blackwater but instead perished ingloriously in the filthy swamps of Arulco for Chivaldori's scraps.




So far so good. Seems like Bobby Ray learned his lessons and started selling things you can actually use in his shop.





The oh-so-amusing character quiz is no more. Too bad, the Congress vs. the NRA joke never got old. In any case, now Hannibal can be definitively classified as a "Camping Fag, Nocturnal" - a common specialization among mercs.





Mechanical and explosives are menial skills best left to less cool members of the team. Hannibal needs to be able to carry loot, absorb damage and bug out fast if things get too hot. Next stop is AIM and we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here with our 30000 dollar budget. Goddammit, I want a multimillion cost-plus contract like the rest of the PMFs!! Still, you have to work with what you have, so Wolf, Fox and Barry fill out our short-handed and inexperienced Liberation Army of Arulco (LAA).





The LZ is hot. Hannibal and Barry engage while Fox and Wolf cover the flanks.





The sixth and last enemy is dug in on the roof like an Alabama tick. With the lack of available firepower Hannbal and Wolf have to keep him pinned down while Fox scales the building, puts a 9mm in his medulla and watches his cinematic fall to the ground below. No major drama but Barry has been nicked pretty hard and none of the fuckers dropped any weapons. Time to establish contact with the ineffectual locals.





First glimpse at the head of the opposition. She's sending more trouble our way.





Shit, first grid square out of Omerta and we encounter a 9-strong squad of Deidranna's minions. Ira and Fox keep them occupied while Wolf and Hannibal work their way South for an enfilade.





The flanking maneuver works and the last enemy succumbs to crossfire from three directions. Nobody's seriously wounded but still no usable weapons are to be found on the battlefield. Do they self-destruct?!





The rest of the journey to Drassen is uneventful until the LAA comes up to a farmhouse just West of the town. After pillaging the place for anything not nailed down the team decides to take a few hours of shuteye before assaulting Drassen airport. Unfortunately not an hour later Barry informs everyone that "enemy exists in region". This time the odds are worse than 2 to 1.





The opposition are greyshirts! I guess Deidranna wasn't kidding about sending her best to sort us out. Time to pull back behind the fence to the North-East and meet the fuckers there with concentrated fire.





What in fuck's name?! We are under fire from the North as well! They've pulled a coordinated attack from two directions - while we were engaging the first group, another entered the fray from our six. This is not good - time to get the fuck outta Dodge - but where to?





The team blasts its way North using the barn building for cover. Unfortunately the opposition senses blood in the water and doesn't let go. Ira gets it. The rest of the team manages to pull out but Hannibal and Fox bleed out from untreated wounds on the way to the next sector. Morale of the team hits rock bottom and with one remaining round of shotgun ammo and a crowbar in the way of serviceable weapons there is nothing to be done. The cause of Arulcan liberation is lost. Deidranna continues to rule the country with an iron hand and indulge in gruesome S/M with Elliot.

...

I dunno if that flanking attack that the AI pulled was a bit of luck or masterful planning, but as Captain Dom from Irresponsible Captain Tylor said it does not matter since the result is the same. I am sorely tempted to reload and see if the AI exhibits such elevated thinking in the future as well.
 

abstract

Scholar
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
444
Someone should try insane level with a single merc. Preferrably, someone more manly than me, because I pussied out when I got cornered by around 15 enemies in the LZ.
 

Hory

Erudite
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
3,002
The last screenshot is epic, Blaegis :).

How about JA2: Unfinished Business. Is it much harder than JA2? I might try that, since I never really played it through. Hah, I might even read the manual.

One of the best games to play on Iron Man is X-Com. Soldiers there can be replaced, by you are still penalized for their deaths, in multiple ways. But letting them die when it happens is great for the atmosphere. Progressing through a mission with less and less men available for each level is a lot more intense. When someone dies, you regret it, but you don't get mad that you have lost one of the mercenaries for the rest of the game.
 

Blaegis

Novice
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
26
Harder? No. At least not if you imported your trained team from JA2. It plays differently because it's basically a single extended mission over several different maps with no real strategy involved. For me it was mildly amusing because of the new weapons but not nearly as great as the actual JA2.
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
You need to use the mod! It increases the game's awesomeness by a fair bit, actually.

Goddamn, that mod looks great! Perhaps time to reinstall one of my all time fav squad based strat games. I fondly remember gassing entire barracks of enemy troops, sneaking around at night while slitting throats and shooting enemy troops from ridiculous angles. Oh, and making the mistake of trying to use a normal house as some kind of bunker.

Some questions though.

The patch incorporates the official patches?
Do enemy soldiers now use grenades?
Does the enemy now drop weapons more often?

EDIT: Great thread BTW.
 

Blaegis

Novice
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
26
Trash said:
Goddamn, that mod looks great! Perhaps time to reinstall one of my all time fav squad based strat games. I fondly remember gassing entire barracks of enemy troops, sneaking around at night while slitting throats and shooting enemy troops from ridiculous angles. Oh, and making the mistake of trying to use a normal house as some kind of bunker.

Some questions though.

The patch incorporates the official patches?
Do enemy soldiers now use grenades?
Does the enemy now drop weapons more often?

It does, indeed, look great - that's why I'm so tempted to proceed and pretend the fiasco at the farm never happened. :cool:

To answer your questions:
-I installed it over JA2 gold. Mod team says they kept all the original quests and so forth.

-Don't know yet. According to readme the opposition should now use M203s (Talons) and other hardware with more abandon. Based on what I've seen so far though, I'm impressed. The way they pushed to maintain contact while I was trying to break it was nasty.

-There's an option that makes the enemies drop all of their carried items. I'm wondering if I should enable it...
 

Serious_Business

Best Poster on the Codex
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
3,954
Location
Frown Town
I'll have to participate in this, if I have the time. I love this game.

Do enemy soldiers now use grenades?

Yes; they also use flares, which will piss on the usual "lolz i am a night ninja sniper" strategy.

Does the enemy now drop weapons more often?

As said you have the option to make enemies drop everything they have, but this is a mixed blessing. At the beggining this option is surely appreciated (only having a rifle compared to pistols can make all the difference in the world), but as the game goes on you'll have so much shit it will be ridiculous. If you sell it all to Tony you'll also have more money than you need. There was a reason why the drops were as they were : balance. Fortunately I think you can desactive that option at any time so when you get a few starting weapons I'd stop it, personally.
 

mlc82

Scholar
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
125
This is an awesome idea, and I'm not sure why I've never thought of it on my own (Ironman JA2). I'm reinstalling it plus the patch right not to give it a shot, I'm sure I'll be smashing my keyboard in frustration by tonight but it should be fun...
 

Hory

Erudite
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
3,002
When I played JA2, I played it through while listening to only this CD:
hpim0181nl8.jpg

With it back in play, Team Hory is ready to start JA2: UB. [Experienced difficulty mode]

005hh5.jpg

As you can see, no Americans are allowed in it. Two Russians, a German, a Dane, a French whore and me.
The mission begins with a disaster. Internet access is down. No more youporn.com for a while. At the same time, you may be wondering why I called "Flo" aka the "cheapest mercenary in JA2" a whore. That's because she has no military skills whatsoever, and has been only hired to keep men morale up during the long winter nights.
008bbs5.jpg
wpwh2.jpg

Look, she even brought an umbrella. How cute.
008uy8.jpg


We've barely landed and E U R O P E D R A M A begins.
006uo7.jpg

007fe2.jpg


Still, the mission moves on.
009zx8.jpg

15 enemies and a map with no walls/structures. Team Hory is, however, skilled in avoidance. We move past this sector.
012se6.jpg


At last, we reach a castle worthy of my knights to capture. The German reports that it is under Jewish control.
014xu5.jpg


They have a problem? We have a problem solver. His name is revolver.
015vp5.jpg


On the south flank, enemies prove they're better at camping than a mercenary walking on crouch and with stealth mode. Counterstrike is probably not something strange to them. Flo is down, but better her than the guy behind, right?
022us8.jpg


Lacking tactical options, the guy behind took a similar path, and had a similar fate. He did fire once tho.
024ly4.jpg

With only his Russian comrades surviving, Hory swears right there and then that he would finish this mission and avenge the fallen soldiers.

030bl1.jpg

Soon, priorities change from killing all the enemies in this country to getting the fuck out alive.

But the enemy treachery shows no bounds. He lands a weapon of mass destruction in our midst.
027cy1.jpg


Half-dead, Ivan gets up and shoots the enemy in the head. For 3 damage.
028ov6.jpg


But we are many and he is few. The three heroes remove another threat.
029xt8.jpg


The Stronger they are, the harder they camp.
031be1.jpg

Ivan is shot down. Comrade Igor exposes himself and begins cover fire, while Hory moves in to rescue the mercenary that cost him $18.000.

Terrorists get luck with the wagon while Team Hory received but a flagon.
034xr6.jpg

The blood of heroes colors the snow. History repeats itself, and Hory is forced to go through what a great visionnaire of the human race had to do in a 1945 bunker. *Click*
 

Blaegis

Novice
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
26
Efforts of team Hory have been manifestly valiant. However, you did omit some vital need-to-know information from your briefing:

 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
Location
Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
Definitely would try this if I could get my hands on the game again. Lost the CD long time ago. Darn it.
 

dagorkan

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,164
I'm up for this, and luckily I've got JA2 + expansions installed already. So fuck you bitch queers, and get ready I'm gonna show you how it's done

:ROQUA 4EVAH:
 

Kos_Koa

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
315
okay... I give up. I want to play this game. So JA2 + Unfinished Business + mod vers 1.13 is the ideal setup. Any other tidbits for a newb?
 

Hory

Erudite
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
3,002
Kos_Koa said:
okay... I give up. I want to play this game. So JA2 + Unfinished Business + mod vers 1.13 is the ideal setup. Any other tidbits for a newb?
I have the Gold Pak, and UB is standalone. I think 1.13 is for JA2 OC.
 

JoKa

Cipher
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
689
Location
Nordland
yeah, no UB needed. but remember: 1.13 is quite a bit more difficult than vanilla JA2..
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
34,300
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
JoKa said:
yeah, no UB needed. but remember: 1.13 is quite a bit more difficult than vanilla JA2..

I noticed that while I tried it out. After taking Drassen, I had to defend it from a huge army that Deidranna sent to take me out. I then trained some militia and took back the rest of Drassen with my mercs and the militia, and it was fucking hard. There were dozens of enemies and I only barely managed to defeat them, with high casualties in my militia. It's hard, but fun. I love the challenge, even though it can be frustrating sometimes.
 

BigWeather

Augur
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
271
Holy crap that was some funny stuff Hory!

I may have to find this one eBay or something -- I somehow managed to miss JA. Probably because it didn't have elves or the Avatar and I was young and didn't know better. =(
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
Location
Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
personnel.jpg

Hired Stephen, my own custom Merc, Ice and Igor. I personally went for the high Agility mercs with 80+ Marksmanship and 9mm SMG kits at the start.

I think overall they can stealth. The helicopter touchdown was executed flawlessly and nobody gets hurt.
insertion01.jpg


Hooked up with Miguel and grabbed Ira along for combat medic, we made our way to Drassen to secure much needed supplies for Miguel's men in Omerta.
instertion03.jpg

instertion03.jpg

Ran into a patrol in the forest, decided not to risk it. We snuck past them without a problem.
insertion04.jpg


Drassen Airport is next.
airport01.jpg
 

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