Wizardry Just started a new Wizardry 8 run...

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I started playing this again for the first time since 2001; some input would be nice. From reading here I imagine my party is pretty far from ideal. I decided to use mostly canned characters. Most have just turned lvl 10.

I have a DW Sam, DW dagger thief (mine, not Myles), the canned Bishop, the canned Ranger, a sprite Wiz and Ulf the canned priest. I picked up Myles and Vi. So far my Bishop and Ranger seem largely useless!

Should I focus my thief on other skills? Are there no worthy daggers later on? Do you foresee enough troubles later on to scrap this and restart?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Well, you picked two of the weaker classes in ranger and priest and are definitely overstocked in the spellcasting department. But you still can finish the game just fine, just remember to have the adventuring buffs up all the time, which should be easy enough with a priest and a wizard in the party.

Rogue is the only class that can use the thieve's dagger - the best dagger in the game that can be obtained as early as Arnika. It's a very good weapon early on and backstabs make it quite powerful, but it will lag behind better weapons later on. To make your rogue really good you need a sword in the main head, especially since he looks like the main damage dealer in your party.

 

[Xi]

How is your ranger party doing? Anything you would change? It looks pretty fun, I might give it a try.

Somehow I missed your post some 5 months ago! I ended up burning out on WIz 8 at the time. Wasn't ready to take the great plunge right after doing a solo run (which I never fully finished - still need to do that, right at the end). I may return to that group build eventually. I'd say give it a shot. Probably would be a lot of fun.

 

[DraQ]

I started playing this again for the first time since 2001; some input would be nice. From reading here I imagine my party is pretty far from ideal. I decided to use mostly canned characters. Most have just turned lvl 10.

I have a DW Sam, DW dagger thief (mine, not Myles), the canned Bishop, the canned Ranger, a sprite Wiz and Ulf the canned priest. I picked up Myles and Vi. So far my Bishop and Ranger seem largely useless!

Should I focus my thief on other skills? Are there no worthy daggers later on? Do you foresee enough troubles later on to scrap this and restart?

I'd consider getting a bloodlust sword (find it yourself, obviously) and either making your thief a sword+dagger 2w (with thieves dagger offhand), or giving the sword to your samurai (you may find it optimal to refrain from 2w for some time then as there will be time when you'll get extra attack with main only without malus from offhand weapon). Both sword and thives daggers are cursed, so you'll forfeit ranged weapon capability with their wielders.

Go exclusively alchemy and psionics on your bishop for optimal development and fastest unfucking - you won't regret not scrounging all your spell picks for the later this way too.

Use shield (don't pump the skill) + mace for your priest - don't neglect his casting, but your party is very weak at tanking so you'll want priest that can be thrown into melee, so don't neglect his physical side either, might even consider dualing him into Lord later on for heavy armors 2w maces and ability to use better ranged weapons.

Since your bishop will handle alchemy, feel free to neglect it with your ranger and focus on your ranged combat skills using your weapon of choice. You can pump melee but only if you have points you don't know what to do with.

Your samurai will need some casting if wielding bloodlust (no ranged weapon), but in either case you can consider letting the skill just grow by use (mind the inevitable suckage) abd only serve as backup.

Switch Myles to Madras in Trynton ASAP (less redundancy and making multishot crossbows for ranger - hold onto all light xbows you can find), before that Myles can give extra quests when dismissed and talked to (then you'll re-recruit him and have to reequip him).
In the end you might want to get RFS, unless you really need that extra ranged and support capabilities.

 

[uaciaut]

Forgot to ask about a good off-hand for a sword-wielding samurai. To be more specific do offhand weapons in general have to be the same type as the main hand or is it worth the effort of training in another weapon type simply for the sake of o good off-hand weapon (i.e. would it be worth getting my samurai's staff up after he maxes swords for a good wand offhand?)

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Wakizashi (normal and enchanted) are the only offhand swords in Wiz8. The only good thing about them is that when you develop dual wield they will give you additional chance for instakills, dmg wise they both suck.. That's why many people prefer to just go with shield.

Every other weapon category has better offhand weapons than swords, maces definitely win here thanks to diamond eyes, but Samurai cannot use it.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Well, you picked two of the weaker classes in ranger and priest and are definitely overstocked in the spellcasting department. But you still can finish the game just fine, just remember to have the adventuring buffs up all the time, which should be easy enough with a priest and a wizard in the party.

Rogue is the only class that can use the thieve's dagger - the best dagger in the game that can be obtained as early as Arnika. It's a very good weapon early on and backstabs make it quite powerful, but it will lag behind better weapons later on. To make your rogue really good you need a sword in the main head, especially since he looks like the main damage dealer in your party.

I am considering Myles a stand-in until I have a better option. I will start using a sword in the main hand on the thief I intend to keep. I'm trying to keep from just reading a walkthrough as it kind of kills the sense of adventure for me so I appreciate the info. I have Bloodlust on my Sam right now. Can you drop a small hint on the thieve's knife?

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I started playing this again for the first time since 2001; some input would be nice. From reading here I imagine my party is pretty far from ideal. I decided to use mostly canned characters. Most have just turned lvl 10.

I have a DW Sam, DW dagger thief (mine, not Myles), the canned Bishop, the canned Ranger, a sprite Wiz and Ulf the canned priest. I picked up Myles and Vi. So far my Bishop and Ranger seem largely useless!

Should I focus my thief on other skills? Are there no worthy daggers later on? Do you foresee enough troubles later on to scrap this and restart?

I'd consider getting a bloodlust sword (find it yourself, obviously) and either making your thief a sword+dagger 2w (with thieves dagger offhand), or giving the sword to your samurai (you may find it optimal to refrain from 2w for some time then as there will be time when you'll get extra attack with main only without malus from offhand weapon). Both sword and thives daggers are cursed, so you'll forfeit ranged weapon capability with their wielders.

Go exclusively alchemy and psionics on your bishop for optimal development and fastest unfucking - you won't regret not scrounging all your spell picks for the later this way too.

Use shield (don't pump the skill) + mace for your priest - don't neglect his casting, but your party is very weak at tanking so you'll want priest that can be thrown into melee, so don't neglect his physical side either, might even consider dualing him into Lord later on for heavy armors 2w maces and ability to use better ranged weapons.

Since your bishop will handle alchemy, feel free to neglect it with your ranger and focus on your ranged combat skills using your weapon of choice. You can pump melee but only if you have points you don't know what to do with.

Your samurai will need some casting if wielding bloodlust (no ranged weapon), but in either case you can consider letting the skill just grow by use (mind the inevitable suckage) abd only serve as backup.

Switch Myles to Madras in Trynton ASAP (less redundancy and making multishot crossbows for ranger - hold onto all light xbows you can find), before that Myles can give extra quests when dismissed and talked to (then you'll re-recruit him and have to reequip him).
In the end you might want to get RFS, unless you really need that extra ranged and support capabilities.

Thanks a lot for the info on the Bishop, serious unfucking is definitely required as she is dead weight right now. I am on the right track with my priest it seems - the endgame priest/lord your describe sounds badass.

For Madras

Spoiler

I imagine I need to finish the 6th bough. I have done 1-5 and 7 but I think I need to get something @ Marten's Bluff before I can open the 6th -- I get the impressions that the 6th requires that I put Marten's pendant or some-such on the pedestal on the 4th bough. Can I recruit him sooner?

.

Thanks for the input!

 

[DraQ]

Forgot to ask about a good off-hand for a sword-wielding samurai. To be more specific do offhand weapons in general have to be the same type as the main hand or is it worth the effort of training in another weapon type simply for the sake of o good off-hand weapon (i.e. would it be worth getting my samurai's staff up after he maxes swords for a good wand offhand?)

Well, both wands and daggers are legitimate alternatives.

The two things Enchanted Wakizashi has going for it are the fact that it's a sword, meaning no extra skill requirements to wield it effectively, and it's mediocre 2% kill bonus.
If you can sink points in additional skill you may find daggers and wands that may prove more useful either due to status effects (no good %kill ones, unfortunately, but 2% isn't that much of a loss), damage, or extra attacks meaning more attempts to murder the target outright.

Can you drop a small hint on the thieve's knife?

Purchaseable.

Every other weapon category has better offhand weapons than swords

Axes.
:trollface:

Thanks a lot for the info on the Bishop, serious unfucking is definitely required as she is dead weight right now.

Focusing exclusively on the two schools not covered by other casters will help that.
Put 3 points in alchemy, 3 in psionics, and remaining 3 wherever you need them.

4-school bishop can be badass, but that requires enduring a long period of suck (for starters, you don't get enough points to fully pump 4 casting schools each level up) and spending as few spell picks as possible on level ups.

I am on the right track with my priest it seems - the endgame priest/lord your describe sounds badass.

You will lose buff to casting skill, so he will become a bit worse caster, but Lord is also divine caster so you won't have wasted any of your development as a priest. You will also lose ability to pray and turn undead, but you will gain ability to use heavy armour, ability to use more weapons and dual wield skill.

For Madras

Spoiler

Can I recruit him sooner?

.

Find Madras and talk to him.

He is not that great an RPC, due to not wanting to go to many crucial locations, but he can make doubleshot crossbows right away. If you do keep him and develop him, he will be able to make tripleshot ones.

Multishot crossbow wielded by ranger getting %kill chance on each shot isn't bad.

 

[TigerKnee]

Well, both wands and daggers are legitimate alternatives.

Man, I've been playing Wiz 8 for so long and never once thought of using wands as off-hand for dedicated dual-wielders. This might be interesting if I ever go back to it..

 

[DraQ]

Well, both wands and daggers are legitimate alternatives.

Man, I've been playing Wiz 8 for so long and never once thought of using wands as off-hand for dedicated dual-wielders. This might be interesting if I ever go back to it..

Winterwand may not be Diamond Eyes, but it still has 15% paralyze, and +5 ini despite shitty damage.
And then if you're a faerie, you may find Rod of Sprites with 50% hex and only slightly worse.

Lord or fighter will probably prefer maces, but samurai may very well go for wands, since most of them have hefty +ini bonus. Especially given that he won't be able to use stiletto with its +10% kill so pretty much the only dagger alternatives are doublestrike dagger (hits for lol damage but extra attack means extra crit chance) and quest Canezou Dagger (which is actually pretty interesting - +1% kill and I think 10% hex compared to enchanted wakizashi's +2% kill). Serpent fang if they are Lizardman or Dracon.

Sword&staff samurai will also be able to switch to an extended range 2h staff without penalties if necessary (using spells instead for longer range combat) and there are some damn powerful ones available.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Mook can also go extended samurai with the Giant's Sword.

 

[uaciaut]

Well, both wands and daggers are legitimate alternatives.

Man, I've been playing Wiz 8 for so long and never once thought of using wands as off-hand for dedicated dual-wielders. This might be interesting if I ever go back to it..

Winterwand may not be Diamond Eyes, but it still has 15% paralyze, and +5 ini despite shitty damage.
And then if you're a faerie, you may find Rod of Sprites with 50% hex and only slightly worse.

Lord or fighter will probably prefer maces, but samurai may very well go for wands, since most of them have hefty +ini bonus. Especially given that he won't be able to use stiletto with its +10% kill so pretty much the only dagger alternatives are doublestrike dagger (hits for lol damage but extra attack means extra crit chance) and quest Canezou Dagger (which is actually pretty interesting - +1% kill and I think 10% hex compared to enchanted wakizashi's +2% kill). Serpent fang if they are Lizardman or Dracon.

You do already get 50% paralyze on cane though, not sure if 15% more would do that much of a difference, plus the rod does give out a bit more damage.

On the other hand with samurais you probably want as much kill % as you can get (since you don't get 50% of it from the get-go) and the more you get the more RNG likes you.

 

[DraQ]

You do already get 50% paralyze on cane though, not sure if 15% more would do that much of a difference, plus the rod does give out a bit more damage.

The rod has to drop, though.

On the other hand with samurais you probably want as much kill % as you can get (since you don't get 50% of it from the get-go) and the more you get the more RNG likes you.

Yes, but I'm not sure if 2% makes that much of a difference in late game.

Using something giving you more attacks (for more crit chances) or paralyzing/otherwise debuffing the target to make hitting and killing easier might be more desirable.

Mook can also go extended samurai with the Giant's Sword.

But that's only Mooks.

 

[Xi]

Mook can also go extended samurai with the Giant's Sword.

This seems like a good solo attempt. Lol, early would be a pain in the ass though.

 

[treborSux]

IMO samurais were slight shit in Wizardry 8. At least I thought you could make much better front lines without them. I remember maxing out my str, spd, dex, senses, sword skill/dual weapons with the muramasa blade and enchanted wakizashi and he was still my least favorite character in my party.

 

[DraQ]

IMO samurais were slight shit in Wizardry 8. At least I thought you could make much better front lines without them. I remember maxing out my str, spd, dex, senses, sword skill/dual weapons with the muramasa blade and enchanted wakizashi and he was still my least favorite character in my party.

Actually samurai have three things going for them:
1. Crit + most swords combination augmented by occasional lightning strike ( + decent armor).
2. Weeaboo gear.
3. Being essentially fighter/mage.

 

[theSavant]

Beware: I recall something like the critical strike of the samurai never happening. Don't know if it's a bug or just some wrong memory in my brain... but it basically killed the class for me. In comparison to that the critical strikes from rangers with bows worked exceptionally well. The repeated strike (with weak strength) is not very satisfying if never a crit occurs.

 

[uaciaut]

You do already get 50% paralyze on cane though, not sure if 15% more would do that much of a difference, plus the rod does give out a bit more damage.

The rod has to drop, though.

Just grind savescumming on a flock of those little shits till it drops.

On the other hand with samurais you probably want as much kill % as you can get (since you don't get 50% of it from the get-go) and the more you get the more RNG likes you.

Yes, but I'm not sure if 2% makes that much of a difference in late game.

Using something giving you more attacks (for more crit chances) or paralyzing/otherwise debuffing the target to make hitting and killing easier might be more desirable.
[/quote]

True, true, starting to reconsider what i use as offhand with my samurai. Learning staff&wand at level 14 though doesn't sound too attractive though. I guess i'll wait and see how often i crit/insta-kill with my bushido blade once i get it and go from there.
Wizardry enhancements makes Blade Cuisinart a secondary weapon as well and with the stats it has (kill 5%, 8-20, +2 hit and initiative) i doubt i'll be making the change to wands for offhand though.

IMO samurais were slight shit in Wizardry 8. At least I thought you could make much better front lines without them. I remember maxing out my str, spd, dex, senses, sword skill/dual weapons with the muramasa blade and enchanted wakizashi and he was still my least favorite character in my party.

Actually samurai have three things going for them:
1. Crit + most swords combination augmented by occasional lightning strike ( + decent armor).
2. Weeaboo gear.
3. Being essentially fighter/mage.

Kind of disappointed on the overall package of the Samurai though tbh. I mean you forfeit quite a bit of frontline melee damage and quite a bit of AC as well (you cant wear the best shit) for spellcasting and crit + some shitty RNG on lightning strike. I think (faerie) ninjas and monks really outshine them, mostly because of stealth + better overall gear.

 

[treborSux]

IMO samurais were slight shit in Wizardry 8. At least I thought you could make much better front lines without them. I remember maxing out my str, spd, dex, senses, sword skill/dual weapons with the muramasa blade and enchanted wakizashi and he was still my least favorite character in my party.

Actually samurai have three things going for them:
1. Crit + most swords combination augmented by occasional lightning strike ( + decent armor).
2. Weeaboo gear.
3. Being essentially fighter/mage.

Except lightning strike and critical strike were more rare than they were common. Their do gear didn't come around much and usually wasn't even better than other common gear.

 

[treborSux]

True, true, starting to reconsider what i use as offhand with my samurai. Learning staff&wand at level 14 though doesn't sound too attractive though. I guess i'll wait and see how often i crit/insta-kill with my bushido blade once i get it and go from there.

uaciaut, you'll be really disappointed with the bushido blade in Wiz 8, it barely helps your crit strike enough to make it worthwhile. Bloodlust and fang are better.

EDIT: Muramasa blade is a pain in the ass to get and only worth it if you have 4 hours to kill and know what treasure to scum.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Beware: I recall something like the critical strike of the samurai never happening. Don't know if it's a bug or just some wrong memory in my brain... but it basically killed the class for me. In comparison to that the critical strikes from rangers with bows worked exceptionally well. The repeated strike (with weak strength) is not very satisfying if never a crit occurs.

The crits do happen for samurai class, it's just that the chance you get from bare critical skill is very low and initially samurai doesn't really have much free points to put there. So until you pump it up and get a gear with decent %kill chance later on instakills will be a very rare sight. I'm not sure if instakill can proc with lighting strike though.

uaciaut, you'll be really disappointed with the bushido blade in Wiz 8, it barely helps your crit strike enough to make it worthwhile. Bloodlust and fang are better.

Bloodlust is broken and Fang is a very late game weapon if you don't cheese. BB is a fine weapon... but you usually have to savescum for it as well.

 

[treborSux]

Bloodlust is broken and Fang is a very late game weapon if you don't cheese. BB is a fine weapon... but you usually have to savescum for it as well.

Broken? It's the best samurai weapon until way later, it's the only way to berzerk.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yes, broken as in "utterly trivializing the game at a stage when it can be obtained". I can never force myself to use it, unless I give it to a really gimped character.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Instakill can stack with Lightning Strike, yes.
I had a Dracon Sam that Lightning Striked with Bloodlust and instakilled three Ironskin crocs in Marten's Bluff.
Instakill depends on high senses, Lightning Strike on speed and weight (or lack there of) I think.
And giving Bloodlust to a Samurai is MADNESS waiting to happen. Lightning Strike 8 blows with Berserk, butchering everything.