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Less Like Movies, More Like Games

Sol Invictus

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While this <a href=http://slate.msn.com/id/2112744/>article on Slate</a> by Clive Thompson doesn't cover RPGs per se, it definitely covers the subject of games attempting to emulate movies, and why it's becoming a really bad trend as of late. Here's a snippet:
<blockquote>Critics have called Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas a blood-soaked crime simulator that valorizes the worst gangsta stereotypes. What they haven't noticed, though, is that everyone's favorite shoot-'em-up is also a family drama. Early on in the game, my character discovers his brother and sister fighting over her decision to date a South Side Hispanic man. I don't need this racism, she says, from "a no-good, narrow-minded, hypocrite gangbanger."

These minimovies, called "cut-scenes," are part of a longtime trend in gaming to create more nuanced characters and more story-based play. Whether a cut scene explains your next mission or just sets a mood, the basic idea is to make a game seem cinematic—more like Citizen Kane than Pac-Man. For many designers, crafting bravura cut scenes has become the best way to transform a mere game into a genre-smashing event. When Halo 2 shipped, for example, the game's creators bragged that they had created nearly a feature film's worth of scripted scenes.

These Hollywood flourishes are good for dazzling mainstream journalists and pundits. That's because there's still a weird anxiety about adults playing games. Most people still think that video games are sophomoric kid stuff; the ones that have a narrative and emulate the movies seem more serious and, well, mature. In fact, I think the truth is almost the opposite. The more video games become like movies, the worse they are as games. </blockquote>
Games should definitely be more about interactivity and enjoyment, and less about forced, poorly written storylines and most importantly where it applies to RPGs, linearity. What's the point of calling it a game if all you do is watch it?
 

Surlent

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
825
Final Fantay = PWNED.

Good article all in all.
But if you want more social characters in crpgs, some dialogue is needed. Bringing along "teh infamous dialogue options w/meaning and stat checks" gives more interactivity though.
 

Sol Invictus

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Half Life 2 had little to no narrative. You experienced the world and understood the storyline as you went along. It didn't need to be explained through cutscenes, and guess what? It's a better FPS than anything ever released.
 

xemous

Arcane
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Exitium said:
Half Life 2 had little to no narrative. You experienced the world and understood the storyline as you went along. It didn't need to be explained through cutscenes, and guess what? It's a better FPS than anything ever released.

Someone hasnt played Quake.
 

Expresso

Novice
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
33
The only good thing in Half-Life 2 was the Source Engine. Half-Life 2 the Game is a predictable linear piece of shit FPS.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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Exitium said:
Half Life 2 had little to no narrative. You experienced the world and understood the storyline as you went along. It didn't need to be explained through cutscenes, and guess what? It's a better FPS than anything ever released.

Haha! You're funny. HL2 was so a confined linear train ride. Sure, it was fun. But it allowed no freedom whatsoever and you had to ride the rail all the way. Oh, and those scripted events where everyone was talking and there was shit happening and you really had no control but were still looking through Gordon's eyes? Well, sorry to inform you, but those are considered cutscenes in the gaming industry.

Far Cry blows HL2 away in so many ways. Sure HL2 is "prettier". Pfffft. I could give a fuck less and I would think that quite obvious by now. Far Cry was alot more fun and not even close to being as scripted as HL2. Heck, I can only think of TWO scripted events in the whole damn game. Other than that, you had complete freedom to approach things how you wanted. And yes, even on the indoor environments.
 
Self-Ejected

dojoteef

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Oct 26, 2004
Messages
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There is a basic assumption that this author makes that has no basis. Namely that storylines ruin games. The popularity of games that feature strong storylines, in fact tend to debunk this myth. Now that doesn't mean every game should have a storyline, but it helps out a number of game genres, such as FPSs and RPGs.

Let's take for example, Dungeon Siege. One of the major complaints that people had was the fact that there wasn't much of a story. So, what does GPG do, they decide to make the sequel have a much more intricate story. Or how about Planescape: Torment. I loved that game, and it was story intensive.

So if people didn't enjoy stories, they wouldn't be in games. It's as simple as that. Until the time comes when people say take the stories of the games, they will continue to be in games.

Anyway, this argument has become the latest fad that every game designer, reviewer, developer, etc wants to weigh in with their point of view and it is truly pointless. No one would argue that childhood games such as cowboys & indians, cops & robbers, baseball, or even cat's cradle aren't games despite the fact that some of those feature narratives. So why is it suddenly that people are debating such things? If you look at it in a black in white perspective you can't get the whole picture, which is the problem with most of these debates. "It's either games are narratives or not"; well it's not a black and white question, so why try to put the round peg in the square hole?

I know I tend to constantly refer to this book, but if you check out "Rules of Play" it has a section called "Games as Narrative Play". Instead of looking at whether games are stories or what not, they look in what way games can be considered stories. When you do that, you realize that there is no need to limit the way you design games by deciding to either remove all storylines from games or make it so that all games have stories. As long as the story aspect of design fits in with the other elements of the game, then that's all that is important. After all the point of playing a game is to have a form of entertainment, whether that includes a story or not.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
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I think you have shares with the publishers. It is all a scam.
 

Jinxed

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Otaku_Hanzo said:
Far Cry blows HL2 away in so many ways. Sure HL2 is "prettier". Pfffft. I could give a fuck less and I would think that quite obvious by now. Far Cry was alot more fun and not even close to being as scripted as HL2. Heck, I can only think of TWO scripted events in the whole damn game. Other than that, you had complete freedom to approach things how you wanted. And yes, even on the indoor environments.

Too bad a lot of the freedom got removed the further you got in the game.
 

crakkie

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dojoteef said:
There is a basic assumption that this author makes that has no basis. Namely that storylines ruin games.
What the hell article were you reading? The gripe is against cutscenes and using them excessively to make your game appear cinematic. Overly long cutscences, regardless of their quality and contribution to the story, stop the gameplay. In RPG's, dialog and interaction are where the story is progressed and are part of the gameplay, so there is no lull while you watch the little movie (non-japanese RPG's, that is).
 

Ortchel

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Apr 11, 2004
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Half-Life 2 was miserably, pathetically bad. It's a shame that all that money that went into perfecting Alyx's smile could have been spent on five solid RPGs from a small developer.
 

Kotario

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I can't help but think the article writer is anticipating Xenosaga Episode II.

He seems stuck on console games really.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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Jinxed said:
Too bad a lot of the freedom got removed the further you got in the game.

I didn't feel that way. The only time I felt confined was the last couple of levels where there was only one way to go. Even the indoor levels offered different approaches to areas. Granted, not as much as the outdoor areas, but, hey, it's the indoors. Confinement at it's best. Especially when you're inside facilities that have security doors and such. Still, any major spot in the game usually had at least two or three different approach routes to it. You weren't stuck on a rail as in HL2.

Ortchel said:
Half-Life 2 was miserably, pathetically bad. It's a shame that all that money that went into perfecting Alyx's smile could have been spent on five solid RPGs from a small developer.

You dare to dislike a game that makes Exitium orgasm?! Are you mad?! No... wait... that just makes you an idiot like me. :wink:
 

dagamer667

Liturgist
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Jan 25, 2004
Messages
104
I guess the author is still stuck in the age of 8-bit platform jumpers.

Personally, I like well-done ingame cutscenes if they are appropriate and not overused. I don't like FMVs for their jarring effect caused by resolution and detail change. NOLF1 and 2 had some of the most memorable memorable I can remember in an FPS in large part due to well-done cutscenes.
 
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This article's a load of shit and the notion that Farcry is better than Half-Life 2 is also a load of shit.

Newsflash: FarCry is just as linear as H-L2. Having the ability to wander aimlessly in the jungle with no interactivity or content out there does not make for a better game.
 

Jinxed

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Otaku_Hanzo said:
I didn't feel that way. The only time I felt confined was the last couple of levels where there was only one way to go. Even the indoor levels offered different approaches to areas. Granted, not as much as the outdoor areas, but, hey, it's the indoors. Confinement at it's best. Especially when you're inside facilities that have security doors and such. Still, any major spot in the game usually had at least two or three different approach routes to it. You weren't stuck on a rail as in HL2.

What I meant that it gradually disperses, it's not cut off, but as the game progresses, there's less of it.

undead dolphin hacker said:
Newsflash: FarCry is just as linear as H-L2. Having the ability to wander aimlessly in the jungle with no interactivity or content out there does not make for a better game.

I for one liked the fact that you could progress through by foot, a jeep, a boat or even fly. All of these meant different action, different locations and situations.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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undead dolphin hacker said:
This article's a load of shit and the notion that Farcry is better than Half-Life 2 is also a load of shit.

No, it's my opinion. Don't like it? Waaah.

undead dolphin hacker said:
Newsflash: FarCry is just as linear as H-L2. Having the ability to wander aimlessly in the jungle with no interactivity or content out there does not make for a better game.

Newsflash: I can play through FarCry and get a different experience merely by means of taking different approaches. Yes, the story is the same, but you can use a variety of gameplay styles in almost every level. I can play through HL2 again and....... do the same things I did the last time I played. Oh... wait... I can use different weapons on the levels where I get multiple weapons I suppose. Wheee.

You guys liked HL2. Cool. Knock yourselves out. I enjoyed my play through of it. Most definitely. I couldn't stomach another play through though. I could with FarCry.

Therefore, I conclude that FC was better than HL2 and it's all my opinion. Just because I think HL2 sucks, doesn't mean I think those who like it suck or that their opinions do, or that they're idiots for that matter. That would be... well, idiotic.

@Jinxed: Well, I see your point there, and I feel I can agree with you on that. Still, I love that game and hope that they can top it with their next release. :D
 
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Give me a break, the opinion card is so hackneyed.

I'm not here to discuss or share ideas. I'm here to say that Half-Life 2 is an objectively better game than Far Cry, and because of that, those who prefer Far Cry to it are disabled either in their perceptive abilities or in their intelligence levels.

Far Cry was fun, don't get me wrong. But Far Cry : Half-Life 2 :: McDonald's : Filet Mignon.

And you're a fucking retard for picking McDonald's.
 

Killzig

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This article is about ten years too late. What year was Diablo released? Did he JUST pick up a video game and find out it had cut scenes in it? Hell even Monkey Island had things akin to cut scenes. He must of also forgot that a lot of the people playing these games are ADULTS and that all of the people making these games are also ... ADULTS. I think the writer's creative well went dry a long time ago. Fucker needs to stick to what he knows and leave the gamer talk to ... GAMERS.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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undead dolphin hacker said:
Give me a break, the opinion card is so hackneyed.

No. Hype is. And so is your argument. McDonalds and Filet Mignon. Pffft. More like Lasagna and Filet Mignon. The latter is more expensive and prettier to look at, but the former is better tasting.

I have my opinion. If that makes me a retard in your eyes, then I guess I'm a retard in your eyes. Not much I can do about that except shrug and laugh at your feeble attempts to throw insults at people because they think differently than you. :lol:
 

EvoG

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Actually it was a great article I read earlier and I'm happy to see Ex pull it up. HL2 is the closest you get to a completely cut-scene free game, in fact, I dont think there are any. Otaku, just for future reference, cut-scenes traditionally are the ones he's referring to that take control 'away' from the player. HL2 never does that and its brilliant. Same with System Shock 2 come to think of it. GTA funny enough, is laden with control severing cut-scenes, being one of the most free form games period.
 

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