List of all Western SRPGs

[Elzair]

Japanese SRPGs (i.e. Simulation Role-Playing Games) like Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics and Disgaea have achieved a reputation among consoletards and Japanophiles in the West. The more hardcore JRPG fa{n,g}s love to boast about the strategic depth of these tactical turn-based games, and they say that Western CRPGs have nothing to match them. Like the Codex, they see most modern Western "RPGs" like Oblivion and Fallout 3 as little more than FPSs. Well, most modern WRPGs may be shit, but I want to compile a list of all the old (and new) RPGs that could give these japanofags a run for their money.

Here is the list so far. Please chip in with any more suggestions. I am looking for RPGs with turn-based grid-based combat.

NOTE: I have not played all of these games, so I may be wrong about them. Please tell me if I am.

Attic Entertainment:
Realms of Arkania
Realms of Arkania 2
Realms of Arkania 3

Black Isle Studios:
Fallout: Tactics

Heroic Fantasy Games:
Knights of the Chalice

Metropolis Software:
Gorky 17

MicroProse:
X-COM
X-COM: Terror From the Deep
X-COM: Apocalypse

Michael Lawrence:
Aethra's Chronicles

Mindcraft:
Magic Candle
Magic Candle II
Magic Candle III

Origin:
Ultima III: Exodus
Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny
Ultima VI: The False Prophet
Worlds of Ultima: Savage Empire
Worlds of Ultima: Martian Dreams

Quality Software:
Return of Heracles

Quantum Quality Productions:
Red Crystal

Sierra:
Betrayal at Krondor
Betrayal in Antara

Sir-Tech:
Jagged Alliance
Jagged Alliance 2

Spiderweb Software:
Avernum I
Avernum II
Avernum III
Avernum IV
Avernum V
Geneforge I
Geneforge II
Geneforge III
Geneforge IV
Geneforge V
Nethergate

SSI:
Wizard's Crown
Shard of Spring
The Eternal Dagger
Pool of Radiance
Curse of the Azure Bonds
Secret of the Silver Blades
Pools of Darkness
Gateway to the Savage Frontier
Treasures of the Savage Frontier
Champions of Krynn
Death Knight of Krynn
The Dark Queen of Krynn
Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday
Matrix Cubed
SpellJammer: Pirates of Realmspace

Stormfront:
Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor

Texas Instruments:
Tunnels of Doom

Troika:
Temple of Elemental Evil

I will try to add more soon.

 

[Ch1ef]

Black Isle Studios
Fallout
Fallout 2

Troika
Arcanum
Temple of Elemental Evil








You wrong.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

X-COM? JA?

The more hardcore JRPG fa{n,g}s love to boast about the strategic depth of these tactical turn-based games

Actually they don't. Mostly because so-called "strategy" RPGs are just about grinding forever. In the rare instances that isn't the case, it's usually rock/paper/scissors, or rather earth/fire/blizzard.

 

[Zomg]

X-Com, JA 1/2, Silent Storm, etc. are more like the Jap games you're talking about. Also "Simulation RPG" is a conceptual and syntactical fuckdick.

 

[deuxhero]

I thought the s stood for strategy?

 

[Burning Bridges]

Bards Tale
Krondor

pff, did you check if such a list doesn't already exist?

 

[SCO]

The concept is somewhat nebulous. Take a jrpg like Der Langrisser, which i hope you will agree is one of the more ambitious ones. What has such a game in common with JA or geneforge? Or even JA AND geneforge.

Overland map. Turn based.

(almost nothing)

 

[GarfunkeL]

Yeah, what are we looking for really? Something like FF Tactics? Then Fallout: Tactics along with Jagged Alliance -series and X-Com -series are similar but better.

 

[Elzair]

I thought the s stood for strategy?

LAWL! Of course it can't stand for strategy. The Japanese don't understand strategy; this is why they lost.

 

[MetalCraze]

X-Coms and JAs are RPGs because you have stats in them!

 

[Zomg]

It's got mechanics like a normal RPG except the player character is the disembodied tactician/fixer character (if it's even a character as such, might just be the disembodied spirit of strategic agency). Related are the party RPGs where no character is the designated protagonist and the player character is the disembodied spirit of the party's agency, like "get more party members at the tavern" Ship of Theseus RPGs like Darklands or M&M.

 

[Elzair]

Yeah, what are we looking for really? Something like FF Tactics? Then Fallout: Tactics along with Jagged Alliance -series and X-Com -series are similar but better.

Well, here is Wikipedia's definition of an SRPG.

This sub-genre of role-playing game principally refers to games which incorporate elements from strategy games as an alternative to traditional RPG systems. Like standard RPGs, the player controls a finite party and battles a similar number of enemies. And like other RPGs, death is usually temporary. But this genre incorporates strategic gameplay such as tactical movement on an isometric grid. Unlike many other video game genres, tactical RPGs tend not to feature multiplayer play.

I would say three things are necessary.

1. The player controls a group of characters with different skills.

2. Combat takes place on some kind of grid (i.e. the characters can move around during combat).

3. Combat is turn-based.

Role-playing elements (C&C, multiple paths, good dialogue options) are good to have, but since most JRPGs don't feature much of them, we can probably skimp a little and declare Fallout: Tactics an SRPG.

 

[SCO]

Oh well. Aleshar (am bugged in my playthrough now). Reminds me of darklands and sword of the samurai (only because of the overland exploration - much worse where, but less variated - no random events - and action areas).
Good damage/fatigue system

Not a very good game though.

 

[MetalCraze]

JRPGs have nothing in common with RPGs at all and there is no such thing as SRPG. You can't compare jap trash with any of -RPGs- because that will be a faggotry. Also wiki is obviously credible because every PnP RPG in existance is "S"RPG then.

 

[roll-a-die]

JRPGs have nothing in common with RPGs at all and there is no such thing as SRPG. You can't compare jap trash with any of -RPGs- because that will be a faggotry. Also wiki is obviously credible because every PnP RPG in existence is "S"RPG then.

You speak before you think skyway. DnD(or as it was called then Chainmail) was originally meant to be and indeed was a derivative of fantasy miniature wargames. It was adapted to function on a smaller scale rather than the large army based miniature games. It is essentially the same thing just smaller.

So yes pretty much every PnP RPG is an "S"RPG.

 

[Jason]

Japanese SRPGs (i.e. Simulation Role-Playing Games) like Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics and Disgaea

"Japtactical" is the appropriate term. Thank you.

 

[Elzair]

Did any of SSI's other RPGs feature combat that was similar to the Goldbox games?

 

[Elzair]

Also, did Origin make any other RPGs with Ultima-like combat (or any other kind of tactical combat)?

 

[MetalCraze]

So yes pretty much every PnP RPG is an "S"RPG.

There is a big difference between RPGs and wargames up to a point where they have nothing in common derivative or not. Just because in both genres you control miniatures doesn't mean they are "similar only smaller". PnP RPGs are focused around characters which you create yourself out of given classes/stats/skills and then do adventures with them which are focused not only on combat. In wargames you play various scenarios with pre-made forces and the focus is only on combat and nothing else. Even in smaller scale computer tactical games like X-Com and JA it is the same although they also have a part more common to strategy games (base-building/army-training) - again no RPG there.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Basilisk Games:
Eschalon: Book I
Eschalon: Book II

not SRPGs. You only control one guy.

Black Isle Studios:
Fallout
Fallout 2

not SRPG, you only control one guy, plus some 'tarded AI npcs who shoot you in the back by accident over and over.

Troika:
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura

not SRPG, you only control one guy, plus some AI npcs.

 

[PorkaMorka]

The concept is somewhat nebulous. Take a jrpg like Der Langrisser, which i hope you will agree is one of the more ambitious ones. What has such a game in common with JA or geneforge? Or even JA AND geneforge.

Overland map. Turn based.

(almost nothing)

JA2 and Langrisser have plenty in common.

-You command multiple units in turn based battles.

- Those units maneuver individually on a map, rather than standing in line JRPG style, or moving as one blob Wizardry style.

- Victory is in large part based on your ability to maneuver your units and properly use their abilities (ie: tactics)

- Your units grow stronger over time.

- There is a strong element of story telling in each game, unlike a pure strategy or tactics game such as Panzer General or X-Com.

- Your units are primarily not generic soldiers, but each have a backstory, again unlike X-com or Panzer General. (although of course in both games you can hire generic soldiers)

 

[Fezzik]

If you're looking for RPGs with strategic turn-based combat and you're going to include games like Fallout and Arcanum that are awfully low on that scale, then I guess Dark Sun: Shattered Lands would be a fit. Its combat isn't that hard after a while, but its turn-based system is superior to most.

 

[roll-a-die]

There is a big difference between RPGs and wargames up to a point where they have nothing in common derivative or not. Just because in both genres you control miniatures doesn't mean they are "similar only smaller". PnP RPGs are focused around characters which you create yourself out of given classes/stats/skills and then do adventures with them which are focused not only on combat. In wargames you play various scenarios with pre-made forces and the focus is only on combat and nothing else. Even in smaller scale computer tactical games like X-Com and JA it is the same although they also have a part more common to strategy games (base-building/army-training) - again no RPG there.

Whats the difference between my flotilla of 5 frigates going up against another flotilla of 5 frigates and my human level 4 fighter going up against fellow human level 4 fighter. The outcome of both is generally calculated in dice with bonuses being added for different things and a certain amount of chance involved.


Also in X-Com and JA don't you have stats that your troops raise as they go up in rank?

The only non-combat/truly story based PnP RPG's I've found are WW's games. Even then only when you get with a good group that doesn't pressure the ST for combat.

DnD for me when I played was fight, fight, fight, get quest, fight, fight, fight, fight, turn in quest, while DM rambles about banal plot devices and we ignore him. Then when he forces us to get into the plot again the other players call him hamfisted and dictatorial. Maybe I just didn't get into the right group. But looking back it kinda reminds me of WoW.

Now that I've rambled some, the point is that the definition of Arr-pah-geh is quite fuzzy and it would be better suited as a root genre ala Fantasy, Sci-Fi and Action game. You already have many sub-genres that seek to fulfill within the RPG-genre different standards

A-RPGs, S-RPGs, T-RPGs, Roguelikes and visual novels all fit under a broad classification of RPG but are in a further sub-genre. I think what your "problem" is that you refuse to see those sub-genres as what they are. Mere subdivisions of the RPG genre as a whole sharing some elements of both the genres in their names.

Also quick question what is it about J-RPGs don't you like. I personally don't like the genre as a whole because I find the stories contrived and boring but will play a few if the gameplay is decent. IE The SMT series or The Dark Cloud series. Though you and I could have different definitions of decent I find collecting things to build other things fun. I also find puzzling out an enemies weakness fun as well. But you might not.

 

[DaveO]

Almost 8 hours since the post and no mention of any of the Realms of Arkania games? Those are RPG sims to a high degree of detail.

I'll put in brief descriptions on games that I'm familiar with on your list, and let you decide if they match the requirements.

Wizard's Crown/Eternal Dagger - Wizard's Crown is a tactical combat RPG sim against monsters with 'turns' during tactical combat, a grid-based system, and skills galore where skill values determined success or failure. Also, morale loss decreased the effectiveness of all skills with the exception of Karma, Luck and Turn Undead. Eternal Dagger adds foraging for food with the Hunt skill and more reliance on elemental/magical attacks against monsters.

Return of Heracles - The heroes move based on set movement rate for each one. Pegasus is the fastest, and Heracles is the slowest. The only 'tactical' combat comes when you're heading for Troy. Even along the way, Pegasus could probably avoid most attackers. Then the other labors are pretty much running for a specific quest reward, although sporadic fights can happen along the way. In my opinion, this game is more of a fantasy/action title.

Ultima II uses a grid system for the overland maps and more specifically dungeons. Although you only play a single character, so this may rule it out.

Demon's Winter - Sequel to Shard of Spring. I'm not familiar with either, but my bet is that there is some sort of tactical stuff involved since it's SSI.

Phantasie 1 thru 3 - Definitely grid based with a party squad and some small elements of tactical combat(mostly against enemy spellcasters).

P.S. - In regards to the question about the Gold Box system, I have reason to believe that Wizard's Crown/Eternal Dagger are the foundation blocks leading up to it. I never received any responses from my videos asking the question if it's true.

 

[Trithne]

DnD for me when I played was fight, fight, fight, get quest, fight, fight, fight, fight, turn in quest, while DM rambles about banal plot devices and we ignore him. Then when he forces us to get into the plot again the other players call him hamfisted and dictatorial. Maybe I just didn't get into the right group. But looking back it kinda reminds me of WoW.

You play with shitty GMs. And shitty players.