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Looking for a PNP with Military Simulation

Stormcrowfleet

Aeon & Star Interactive
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Sep 23, 2009
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Greetings Dex

I'm looking for good PNP systems or whole PNP RPG with military simulation elements (i.e. more realistic or tactical combat than just throwing dice on the table). Looking for something a bit more realistic than say vampires soaking bullets or hacker-mages throwing fireballs. It can be only a system without universe, or a whole game, I don't really care. I'm just looking into this for games with friends. Ideally non-fantasy, and not too futuristic (not looking to play Star Wars).

I haven't played much PNP in my life. Had couple of D&D campaign, Vampire campaigns, and one Star Wars campaign, plus I know the rules of some games like Cyberpunk, Shadowrun and Dark Heresy (and other GW stuff).

Enlighten me, thanks.
 
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Twilight/Merc 2000 would be the one everyone's heard of when it comes to millitary PNP.
Theres also one called Millenium's end which is rather Tom Clancyish and also has wierd gun combat in that you roll on an overlay to determine hits.
 

noisenerd

Learned
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BattleTech
Yeah, GURPS is probably worth a look.

When you say "more realistic or tactical combat" do you just mean less random, or do you want more details or ? I would say GURPS can be more realistic than D&D etc. in that it can be easier for characters to die.

asperGURPS

I lol'd, but it does kinda deserve that.
 

Stormcrowfleet

Aeon & Star Interactive
Developer
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
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1,028
I was looking for :

a) Easier to die
b) Less random
c) Different parameters (like suppressive fire, etc.)

You guys covered all those. I'm gonna look into that.

I would have liked rules for cover tho. Anyway know a game with guns that has cover ? GW products do, but the rules sucks anyway (Necromunda is not bad tho).

Thanks to everyone. Keep them coming.
 

Night Goat

The Immovable Autism
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Codex 2013 Codex 2014
Twilight 2013 (I haven't had any experience with previous twilight versions) is pretty realistic concerning the weapons and how they are handled by the system mechanics, including pretty functional rules for suppressive fire, explosives, morale effects of being in combat using modern weapons, and decent rules for modern armored vehicles in combat. It also has pretty good rules for handling damage (it uses locational damage), the mechanical penalties and effects when injured, and first aid/medicine mechanics.

It has some problems though.

1.) Very crunchy. Not the crunchiest system out there and you can streamline it a lot by making some charts for reference, but the DM and players will need to have a good grasp on how the mechanics work. The book is also not laid out well and as a result the different tables and rules you will need for combat are spread out throughout like half the book. That is why it is very useful for the DM to prepare their own charts and players to make the charts for how their weapon handling at different ranges.

2.) Initiative, or OODA as it is called, is broken. It is far too powerful. It is the most important combat stat by a wide margin. Initiative determines not just who goes first, but how much you can do in your turn. So if you roll really high for initiative, not only are you going first, but you are taking your additional actions before the other guys even get a chance to react. So not only might you be getting 3 attacks compared to their 1 attack, but you are getting at least 2 attacks (and maybe all 3) before they even get a chance to make their 1 attack. Add in the pretty high lethality (or at least high rate of getting incapacitated quickly) you can see how big an advantage that is. It can get pretty extreme with a character built to take advantage of high initiatve. Like a character being able to regularly get off two full 12 rounds bursts with a medium/heavy machine gun in a round before any of the enemies can react (unless you put them up against enemies who are also initiative monsters).

You are gonna want to modify the rules some to reduce how overpowered initiative is. This is what I would recommend, and what I would do if I was gonna run it again. For one you will probably want to not allow the players to get the perks/traits (I forget what they are called in twilight 2013) that makes a character better at using a base stat (initiative is a base stat) with the initiative stat. Second you will probably want to modify it so when a player has a high enough initiative to take multiple actions/attacks, they can't take all of them before the enemy even has a chance to react. They can still go first and they still get their increased number of actions/attacks, but they only get the additional attacks/actions after the enemies with fewer actions get a chance to do something.

3.) The rules don't really handle sneaking/concealment in combat. They have mechanical rules for handling sneaking and spotting people trying to sneak, including the rules for noticing an ambush, but the combat mechanics mostly assume that once they are in combat everyone involved in the fighting is aware of where all the enemies involved in the fighting are. This is a lot easier to modify the rules for though as you mostly just need to apply the rules for sneaking/being spotted during combat. The system even already gives you the tables for how the noise of gunfire affects the attempt to remain concealed (although I don't think it has any specific rules for how the visual signature of firing a weapon affects concealment so you may have to make up the numbers for that).
4.) People will think you're playing a game about sparkly vampires.
 

Xathrodox86

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Oct 27, 2014
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760
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Nuln's labyrinth
oWoD games could be this, if you'd run them right. There were even books with more emphasis on combat/weapons/tactics. Generally Mercs and GURPS are your best bet tough.
 

Alex

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Jun 14, 2007
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I haven't played any games focused on military simulation, but besides the options already mentioned, you might want to check Phoenix Command from Leading Edge Games. The game may be a bit too detail driven, but I believe you might be able to at least draw inspiration from it. It is pretty old, though, so you might want to look for a digital version.

The original Traveller game is science fiction, and has pretty light rules. However, the character generation is very focused on creating war veterans, so if you feel like adapting it, it could be a lot of fun.

As for GURPS, if you decide to go with it, be sure to check this book.

Edit: You might also want to check Aces and Eights. It is an old west RPG, but it has a very interesting combat system. It too uses overlays, and it counts tenths of seconds between character actions.
 
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nikolokolus

Arcane
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May 8, 2013
Messages
4,090
If you want something less crunchy than GURPS, but still somewhat grounded in a sense of realism, Chaosium's BRP is pretty flexible and can do modern pretty well (good luck finding a physical copy, but the PDF version can be had for pretty cheap).
 

udm

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Aug 14, 2008
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Make the Codex Great Again!
I'd been using this system called Covert Ops for modern campaigns. It uses a percentile system and is rules-lite, so good for beginners. However there are also optional rules for adding focuses, aimed shots with specific rules for injured limbs, custom weaponry and even custom skills so it can get pretty crunchy.

I've not used it in a while because I suck at drafting modern themed adventures, but it's by no means a fault of the system (which by the way has an excellent GM toolkit for planning on the fly). I really like this system a lot.
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
GURPS has a shitload of expansions. For example tactical shooting. And stuff like that.
 

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