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Looking for Arena tips

unseeingeye

Cleric/Mage
Patron
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
615
Strap Yourselves In
Damn, that game felt so claustrophobic in the first dungeon. And then the thrill of ending up in a real big city! They don't do shit like that anymore. WIsh I were young and easily impressed again :negative:
Yea, same here. Or rather that games were still being made with the same passion in a similar style. I still am fascinated when leaving the opening dungeon and appearing in a city within whichever province your race comes from, the sense of scale remains impressive, and the knowledge that you can travel to so many different cities in each province makes it very exciting to explore. While Daggerfall is an overall superior game and with the Unity version I would even say my favorite Elder Scrolls game (though that could just as easily be Morrowind depending on my mood), there are certain things about Arena that I miss in the later games. Even the subtle details like the messages that appear on in-game holidays (Tales and Tallows!) or the much greater variety of NPCs walking around or just hanging out in the city streets like the priests for instance. Of course, Daggerfall Unity has mods that bring precisely those two details (and much more, including quests) from Arena over to Daggerfall, so there is a much greater incentive to play the latter, but I just really enjoy the graphics and gameplay of Arena. I suppose most people, even those interested in the older games of the series, probably skip Arena entirely and start with Daggerfall or Morrowind, but I think it is a great game and certainly worth playing.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
15,949
Dungeons in Daggerfall are hit and miss. Having a few like arena in Daggerfall would have been nice. They went balls deep in the rando gen tunnel rat dungeons.
 

Cliffworms

Novice
Joined
Dec 27, 2022
Messages
25
Location
Gothway Garden
Arena is feature-complete, as opposed to Daggerfall, and that's one of its strong points. Even if it's light on content as opposed to its successor, it's a pretty fun game to play. The wilderness is fun to explore. The random dungeons, even if they're small, take some time to complete because of how dangerous they are (Arena's enemies are masters of sneak attacks!).

And all the flavor text... from the building descriptions (with seasonal, weather and time of day variants) to potion's descriptions and commoner dialogue ("who are you?") give it a pen and paper feel.
 

unseeingeye

Cleric/Mage
Patron
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
615
Strap Yourselves In
Yea, I agree with you fully Cliffworms, the flavor text in Arena is very well done and I wish this was implemented in the later games, or other games generally for that matter. I remember a similar feature being one of my favorite details about the first two Fallout games, though it isn't nearly as developed and some of it can be easily missed since it only appears in the Pip-Boy display. I also thought Arena had an awesome intro sequence that, while sort of lame visually still fully explains your circumstances and what is expected of you and establishes you in your role seamlessly, while most games from that time tended to just start with no introduction whatsoever or one that was very brief without explaining much of anything.

Take one of the games biggest inspirations for instance - it starts off a Nietzsche quote (yea, that one) and then displays what I imagine must have been an enormous expense, a fully animated prerendered cutscene that shows... like, a mountain and a bird flying around, then a dragonfly sitting atop a rippling pool flapping its wings in the wind. And that's it, you just begin the game. I know that this is the case on the PC version, and that a significant portion of the data files on the disks was this cutscene. I forget if it is similarly animated in the Amiga version, but I know that in the Atari ST version it isn't, you just get a few still shots of the same scenes in sequence.

It seems that around that time, approximately anyway, proper introductory sequences were beginning to be an expected feature as opposed to the player having read the manual, and with CDs offering more storage space it became possible to include such a thing without having to sacrifice more important features. Some games definitely had less-animated but equally as informative and seamless an introductory sequence before Arena, for instance another game it drew massive inspiration from, Ultima Underworld. The cutscene there was brief, but it was sufficient to convey the urgency of your quest and you begin the game with a clear goal in mind. But other games even those that I truly love, like the Might and Magic games, were weak on establishing your reason for being in each world. The Clouds and Xeen and Darkness of Xeen have awesome intros, they are very well animated, beautifully rendered and very funny, but they only give you a minor overview of a bad guy without any details about the environment and history of the lands you are entering. I actually miss PC big boxes for games and the manuals, maps and other materials that they used to come packaged with, and always when I play an older game if I own a physical copy (which I do for several of my favorites, like Darklands, the aforementioned Xeen games as well as Isles of Terra, Dragon Wars, Ultima Underworld, Wizardry 6 and 7 with clue books for both, Daggerfall, the first Dark Sun game, X-COM Apocalypse, a few Gold Boxes, Jagged Alliance and Deadly Games, and a handful of other lesser known games from SSI and such like The Summoning, Prophecy of the Shadow, and a few others) I will get the box out and keep the manual and map next to my laptop for reference and to recapture some of the original experience. If I don't have a physical copy I'll use a digital one instead, and I really love getting the backstory and some of a games lore from within the manuals, but I definitely appreciate it when a game provides an intro to help get you into it, even if it is just a basic dungeon crawler with no major narrative elements. In my opinion Arena really does a great job, and Daggerfall is among my favorite intros off all time. I sometimes randomly say to strangers "...Excuse the gloom, but none may know of this meeting" like at the grocery store lol, just for fun.
 

unseeingeye

Cleric/Mage
Patron
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
615
Strap Yourselves In
This kind of thing is something only old people can get away with
I'm 37, but I have no idea whether that makes me old or not. But I am not well liked at my usual haunts, of this I feel certain. I just stopped caring about amusing anybody but myself a long time ago.
 

JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
Hi there! I hope its OK to ask here. I have recently started TES Arena and i have some questions.

I choose a wood elf character, so i found myself in Valenwood, Heimdar city.

There i heard rumours about Khajiti ring, Necromancer amulet and other magical stuff. NPCs told me that i should go to the particular tavern to get the info. But i have tried visiting these taverns a lot of times and was not able to meet the right person. I have tried exiting/entering the taverns, leaving the city, waiting and sleeping. Only once i was able to talk to a right person with the info. But... i misclicked something and lost the dialogue. I tried to reach a barkeeper again - but it was futile... Am i doing something wrong?

I have also tried to talk to every NPC in the inn, but it was useless, i guess that talking to people in the inns, except bartender is useless in general, right?

Even more, i have traveled to another city, Haven and have started looking for rumors there, hoping that in other city i can reset the problem, but now i can't even get the rumours about powerful magic stuff. Is it me or the game?

Also, i wonder if you can get from one city to another by exploring the local map. I have spent half an hour walking in one direction and the map seems infinite.
 
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JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
Is it true that armour system is completely broken in Arena?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Arena/comments/1bhopwd/armor/

"I officially declare it: The armor system in this game DOES NOT WORK. Enemies deal the same range of damage to both a “naked” character (armor +10) and a knight completely clad in ebony with all ebony accessories (armor -43). At the same time, the chance of hitting all enemies is the same for any armor level, and is 33%-73% of pure randomness. Therefore, you can safely close all the guides where they talk about the location of the “best” ebony armor"" - Regividon"

(translated from russian - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815981883)
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,806
Location
The Satellite Of Love
There i heard rumours about Khajiti ring, Necromancer amulet and other magical stuff. NPCs told me that i should go to the particular tavern to get the info. But i have tried visiting these taverns a lot of times and was not able to meet the right person. I have tried exiting/entering the taverns, leaving the city, waiting and sleeping. Only once i was able to talk to a right person with the info. But... i misclicked something and lost the dialogue. I tried to reach a barkeeper again - but it was futile... Am i doing something wrong?
You can only pursue one artifact quest at a time. When you visit a tavern and speak to the barkeep to start the artifact quest, it removes all the others. iirc, you can't start a new artifact quest while you have one already active.

On top of that, you're only allowed to have one artifact at a time, so when you find one, you'll have to either get rid of it or wait until it vanishes before you can go looking for another one. Exceptions are the Coffer and the Oghma Infinium, which are both used as soon as you get them, so you might want to go for those first if you're interested in their effects. The Oghma Infinium in particular is great for new characters.

Another thing to note about artifacts is that they only appear in a given region - so there's artifacts specific to Elsweyr, artifacts specific to Skyrim, and so on. The exception is the Imperial City, which has all artifacts, so if you're looking for a specific artifact, go there and ask for rumours. Also, if you find someone who knows rumours, just keep asking that same person over and over again - they'll eventually cycle through every possible rumour and tell you all the available artifact quests.

Also, i wonder if you can get from one city to another by exploring the local map. I have spent half an hour walking in one direction and the map seems infinite.
It's infinite, only the travel map works. You can find weird things if you keep walking, though, all kinds of strange houses and temples to loot.
 

JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
There i heard rumours about Khajiti ring, Necromancer amulet and other magical stuff. NPCs told me that i should go to the particular tavern to get the info. But i have tried visiting these taverns a lot of times and was not able to meet the right person. I have tried exiting/entering the taverns, leaving the city, waiting and sleeping. Only once i was able to talk to a right person with the info. But... i misclicked something and lost the dialogue. I tried to reach a barkeeper again - but it was futile... Am i doing something wrong?
You can only pursue one artifact quest at a time. When you visit a tavern and speak to the barkeep to start the artifact quest, it removes all the others. iirc, you can't start a new artifact quest while you have one already active.
Oh, damn. I am afraid i broke the game (or caught a bug). As i said, i have started a dialogue with information trader... but then something went wrong, maybe i clicked something, i don't know, but i lost the dialogue and other dialogue about some crappy courier job appeared. Does Artifact quest appears in Logbook, when activated? If i reject the proposition of information trader, then this quest is forever lost or just reseted? The problem i can't now even get a rumour about artifacts, though i click and click and click on the rumours.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,806
Location
The Satellite Of Love
If you talked to the bartender and clicked Accept on the quest, then it should have spawned the artifact dungeon. Your best bet might be to look at each province on the travel map and see if there's a dungeon on any of them - it'll look like a cave and have a randomly-generated name. If you find one, it's the artifact quest, and you can continue from there.
 

JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
If you talked to the bartender and clicked Accept on the quest, then it should have spawned the artifact dungeon. Your best bet might be to look at each province on the travel map and see if there's a dungeon on any of them - it'll look like a cave and have a randomly-generated name. If you find one, it's the artifact quest, and you can continue from there.
Thanks a lot! That was just the case! I was pretty sure, that i didn't have enough money to accept the quest, though... Without you i would have spent hell of a time figuring that out.
 

JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
What is this strange bell/drum sound that appears from time to time in the main quest dungeons? May guess is that indicates right direction.
 

JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
I have beat the game as a spellsword. That was actually surprisingly easy. If you use Spell reflection or spell absorption - you are just a killing machine with infinite mana. And as a spellsword is also rather good in a melee combat you are just a godlike.

Levels, dungeons, labyrinths are not that difficult. If you have some patience you can find what you need in a reasonable time. Passwall spell helps. Surprisingly there are NO traps or puzzles. Only riddles which are rather simple mostly, and if not, you can use magical artefact to pass through.

The game becomes boring to the end, but i wonder have someone beat it without use of magic AND magical artefacts?

For the sake of curiosity, i have downloaded saves from UESP for 23lvl ranger and final quest is VERY hard to beat for a non-spell caster, and character doesn't have a lot of magical artefacts. Probably i will have to buy dozens of potions of health and invisiblity to beat it.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,806
Location
The Satellite Of Love
The game becomes boring to the end, but i wonder have someone beat it without use of magic AND magical artefacts?
I've been going through the TES games without using attacks, or most magical items in this thread:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...-daggerfall-morrowind-oblivion-skyrim.149091/

Although I relied massively on Invisibility in Arena, but I'm convinced it can be beat without any magic or items or physical attacks, especially thanks to the spawn trick where you can have a weak enemy follow you through spawn zones to prevent the stronger enemies spawning. Spellcasting enemies often kill themselves if your magic resistance is high enough and you're close enough to them that they're killed by their own splash damage.

I tried an unarmed-only run (no spell reflect, no invisibility, etc) a few years ago and the endgame does suck, but if you can close the distance to spellcasters quick enough then you still stand a chance. I've never found a non-magic way through some of the endgame spellcaster squads without using the spawn glitch, though - the Liches outside Jagar Tharn's lair are insane and I'm not sure what the devs really expected non-spellcasters to do.
 

JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
I have beat the final dungeon and Jagar Tharn with 23lvl ranger heavily relying on healing potions. How can you manage to beat it with, lets say acrobat, with much less health, no armour and no longswords - thats a question.
 

JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
Am i right in a thought that EVERYTHING in Arena, except the main quest dungeons, is made with procedural generation (towns, villages, side-quest dungeons (wildlands are 100%))?
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,806
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Yep, though the towns are pre-generated and their layouts are consistent between games (though the names of people and buildings, and the quests available, are generated fresh every time). The sidequest dungeons just choose from a number of pre-made floors and stack them together at random. As for the wilderness, I think it does a similar thing, moving you through pre-made blocks arranged in a random order.
 

JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
As for the wilderness, I think it does a similar thing, moving you through pre-made blocks arranged in a random order.

There is is a good piece about Wilderness - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Places

Unfortunately i can't find 100% proof about other areas. It is obvious that proc gen is involved, but i would like to hear it from the developers' mouth or reviews of that time.

I have found only these words of Ted Peterson:"In hindsight, it would have been nice to make the cities more distinctive, but we had to reuse so many assets to populate a continent". (src)
 

JanKrapivin

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
56
Lemming42

Yes, i have tested it in an about ~5 completely new games, for different races and classes. Towns are the same, wilderness areas are the same. Homes in towns are the same and dungeons in wilderness are the same.

Haven's tested side-quest dungeons.
The sidequest dungeons just choose from a number of pre-made floors and stack them together at random'
Are you sure about that? I think they are consistent. Don't think that they would be different from wilderness dungeons.

"In addition to the fixed main quest dungeons mentioned above, each province except the Imperial Province contains fourteen additional dungeons which can be unlocked by being sent to them via certain random side quests. These dungeons are fixed in numbers and locations, but not in names, which is determined at the time of the quest which first unlocks them. Once you've unlocked all fourteen dungeons in a province, subsequent side quests will begin to send you back into dungeons you've already unlocked, which keep their original names." (src)

So, i guess they have the fixed layout also.
 
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