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Lord British: we haven't yet mastered true storytelling

Crooked Bee

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Richard Garriott aka Lord British said:
I don’t think we’ve yet mastered the techniques of true interactive storytelling.

http://gametheoryonline.com/2011/02/01/interactive-fiction-video-game-storytelling-movie

Interactive fiction and adventure gaming fans should be sure to check out the latest episode of Game Theory with Scott Steinberg. Our new documentary film “Interactive Fiction: The Art of Video Game Storytelling” (seen here) reveals what’s next for virtual narrative. The movie, featuring today’s top writers and game designers, provides an in-depth look at the past, present and future of video game storytelling.

In the film, the field’s biggest names chart virtual narrative and scriptwriting’s evolution from the days of point-and-click adventures to today’s sprawling online, downloadable and massively multiplayer online (MMO) games. Beginning with the early days of text adventures from Infocom and progressing from Sierra and LucasArts’ golden age heyday to the rise of CD-ROM, next-gen consoles and cutting-edge blockbusters like Heavy Rain, yesterday and today’s greatest designers share their thoughts on film.

The video, which features exclusive and never before seen footage, includes commentary by industry legends including Ultima creator Richard “Lord British” Garriott, Gabriel Knight scribe Jane Jensen, Revolution Software founder Charles Cecil and The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy designer Steve Meretzky. Also featuring interviews with key talent behind hit franchises like BioShock, Assassin’s Creed and Uncharted, it offers an uparalleled look at the state of virtual storytelling.

LOL, "evolution". LOL, "to today's sprawling ... MMO games". LOL, "cutting-edge blockbusters like Heavy Rain". And that's supposed to be the path to the "true interactive storytelling" Mr. Garriott is talking about? No thanks.
:rpgcodex:

So, er, why am I sharing this shit with you? :oops: Well, I dunno, but it's Lord British, yay!

Uhm, discuss!! Or not. Whatever.
 

J_C

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I don't know why, but at first I read that the title of the topic is: We haven't yet masturbated true storytelling. Is there something wrong with me?
 

Achilles

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Not really, you just have the gift of reading between the lines.
 

Metro

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Funny thing is the height of 'interactive storytelling' was probably stuff like UO, an online world that while fixed to a particular universe/setting, gave the player base a lot of freedom in terms of controlling the world, freedom of choice, structuring society, etc. I suppose EVE is a lot like that, too, although I've never played. Now granted I didn't watch the video but I have a feeling what they're talking about for the future is arguably less interactive where you just push a couple of buttons every so often and have the game guide you through a CGI-like movie for the duration. Honestly some games have devolved to the point of Dragon's Lair except that the 'realistic graphics' are not nearly as good as what Don Bluth did with pen and paper decades ago.
 

Daemongar

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Well, he's probably right. While Serpent Isle is considered a classic, there are so many ways it could have taken us to the next level. Take the Frigidazzi part: it always kind of left me cold.
 

Jaesun

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Daemongar said:
Well, he's probably right. While Serpent Isle is considered a classic, there are so many ways it could have taken us to the next level. Take the Frigidazzi part: it always kind of left me cold.

:lol:

Serpent Isle was however Spektor's project. Gariott was not involved in making it.
 

Crooked Bee

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Metro said:
Now granted I didn't watch the video but I have a feeling what they're talking about for the future is arguably less interactive where you just push a couple of buttons every so often and have the game guide you through a CGI-like movie for the duration.

Okay, now that I've actually watched the video I posted, here are some snippets. To me it doesn't look like they're talking about the UO kind of interactive storytelling, but judge for yourself.
(It's a rough transcript, not exact quotes. If there are any mistakes here, blame my bad English.)

The premise is, interactive storytelling has
"become something of a long-lost art in the last couple of decades. But suddenly a new chapter is being written - videogame makers are rediscovering the power of prose. Let's examine where the virtual storytelling's tale began."

Richard Garriott, "Founder: Origin and Portalarium":
"At the very beginning it didn't exist. Ultima 4 was one of the first true attempts at in-depth storytelling in games, where the gameplay was not only about leveling-up and beating the next monster, but also about an in-depth interaction with the story. That carried on into other fantasy RPGs."

Bob Bates, "Co-Founder, Legend Ent.":
"There was a moment when gaming changed my life." [That was the moment when he first played Zork.] "Imagination and writing could meet in gameplay."

Corey May, "Writer, Assassin's Creed II":
"King's Quest I -- I fell in love and became a rabid Sierra fanboy. ... The mechanics were fairly simple, and so the story was kind of "elevated"."

Jane Jensen, "Creator, Gabriel Knight":
"Back in the day PCs were much slower and rarer, so it was kind of "nerds" who had them in their homes. It kind of got subsumed by the action crowd when PCs became fast enough. So [those nerds] remained out there like hungry baby birds asking for things and I gave them that. Now we see that within the casual gaming space there's a new demographic growing."

Being a nerd is good for you, apparently.

Corey May:
"In the early 90s there was an increasing interest in graphics. And so you had many games that were focused on creating things from visual perspective, but not as interested in interesting characters or interesting stories. There wasn't as much recognition at the time that context was important. ... A lot of the japanese RPGs ... they kind of opened the door for a lot of the 3rd person games, the action-adventures that became the next wave."

So jRPGs and graphics whores are indeed to blame, huh?
:rpgcodex:

Charles Cecil, "Co-Founder, Revolution":
"What happened when Playstation came out was 3D, and the publishers were obsessed with 3D. ... And in many ways the publishers were out of touch with the audience."

3D is teh evil. :twisted:

Richard Garriott:
"Three or four years ago a number of the Action RPGs with the heavy story thing began to show up again, in many ways in a much more sophisticated ways than the way I invented it in the middle Ultimas. But still rarely with the elegance of a book or a movie. I don’t think we’ve yet mastered the techniques of true interactive storytelling. And I mean that not just in dialogue, not just in cutscenes, but really in the entire experience unfolding and how you emotionally become engaged in what's going on."

I'm pretty sure Lord British means Fallot 3 and *gasp* Oblivion here. :roll: And OMG, "emotionally engaged".

Corey May:
"I'll start with everyone's favourite, Uncharted 2, and what they did apart from the brilliant writing and interaction in general -- they've managed to merge gameplay and narrative. So it's not that often that you stop just to watch a cutscene; a lot of times you're participating in playing as the story is being told.
Bioshock has some really good things. They made the environment, the city of Rupture a character. ... We can continue to play through the game and hear the story being told. ... Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: building relationships with interesting personalities."

:roll:

"In the era of HD, isn't it strange to see the resurgence of storytelling?"

Bob Bates:
"Stories are how we as humans explain the world. You know, when we see a sequence of events happen, even if those events are not interconnected we will invent connections that just make sense out of what happens. It's not surprising that the storytelling is back. I don't know if it ever left, it's just that we're not very good at it still.

Yeah, more games like Heavy Rain, and we're good.

Jane Jensen:
"It's like comic books or rap ... it's an art form of the people. ... I think interactivity can be as profound and entertaining an experience as any that we have, including film and books. It doesn't have to be about being childish ... it can also be profound and meaningful."

Like in ... where? :? Surely you don't mean "Grey Matter" when you say "profound", right?

Steve Meretzky, "Game Designer":
"In movies and other visual media the storytelling rule is don't tell, show. In a game, the rule is, don't show, play. Tell the story through playing."

Yeah, "play" as in "gameplay", not as in "cutscenes", goddammit.

Corey May:
"There's room for all kinds of narrative experience. I don't think they all have to be AAA big budget titles. For example, Braid ..."

Yeah, Braid sure is better than Assassin's Creed II, Mr. May.

Bob Bates:
"We still haven't resolved some of the fundamental issues of storytelling -- the issue of giving the player agency, which is a fancy way of saying, letting the player do what he wants to do vs. having the player do what the character he's playing for example might do. Say, if you're playing a kind and gentle person and that's the nature of the character, and then you give the player the choice to kill a kitten, where does that leave you as the storyteller? You're saying, "This is a kind and gentle person who kills kittens." And that can be difficult."

A king and gentle person who kills kittens? Well, that's not a problem: just be sure to spare a few coins to the local beggar, and your karma is back to normal in no time.
:thumbsup:
 

Destroid

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Old people are by and large too pragmatic, compromising and lacking in passion to be highly creative.
 

Gondolin

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J_C said:
I don't know why, but at first I read that the title of the topic is: We haven't yet masturbated true storytelling. Is there something wrong with me?

Hmmm, there could be some truth in that "it causes blindness" thing after all.
 

Metro

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The problem is the more you want to tell a story the less interactive a game becomes. I never really considered Adventure games as interactive -- you're just along for the ride in a preset story line. Of course it all depends on how you define the word. You could argue a chair is interactive and by logical extension pretty much any computer game. To me real interactivity is synonymous with the 'choice and consequence' most of us come to expect from legitimate RPGs. As such, Bates is on the right track and Garriott is just babbling.

Do the Ultima games tell good stories? Yes. Are they interactive? No. Fallout 3 is more interactive than the Ultimas which all pretty much have only one resolution and one way of playing. Sure you could go on a mass killing spree as the Avatar but that will usually require a reload if you've offed any major/minor plot line characters if you want to actually complete the game. I don't know where he's going with the 'emotionally engaging' thing -- in ~20 or so years of gaming I don't think I've ever been emotionally invested in one. And honestly I think that is less important than creating a cohesive and convincing universe in which the game is based in then adding things that help bring it to life like radio stations, good dialogue, towns/communities, convincing AI/npcs, etc.
 

Metro

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Destroid said:
There is a difference between an interactive game and an interactive story.

How do you divorce the two in the context of a game?
 

Sceptic

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... what?

Are you seriously saying that the game has no interactivity if the story is rigid? That's storyfagginess taken to unprecendeted levels.

Interactivity of the game and interactivity of the story are always divorced. The only cases in which they're not are the pure FMV games a la Critical Path where the ONLY gameplay was picking one option from three, and if correct the next video would play.
 

DraQ

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Sceptic said:
Interactivity of the game and interactivity of the story are always divorced. The only cases in which they're not are the pure FMV games a la Critical Path where the ONLY gameplay was picking one option from three, and if correct the next video would play.
What if only certain modules of the story were predetermined and it was the gameplay writing much of the proper narrative?
 

Drakron

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DraQ said:
What if only certain modules of the story were predetermined and it was the gameplay writing much of the proper narrative?

You mean like Oblivion.

Since that is it, if your actions are not recognized by the game they are pointless and you could be a wandering herbalist in Oblivion but the game would never recognize you as such.

Interaction means your actions are interpreted and there will be response but that does not happen outside specific actions, kleptomania for example were there are not many games were that even taken on effect and "loot everything you can" is the expected player behavior.
 

Sceptic

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DraQ said:
What if only certain modules of the story were predetermined and it was the gameplay writing much of the proper narrative?
Major clarification needed: is that narrative coming out of the game, or being filled in by the player?

Also, I should have clarified I specifically meant games that are around and that we can play. A game with a dynamic narrative being constantly updated by thousands of variables set by player action would be absolutely awesome, but we're not there yet. Closest game I can think of that did this was Alpha Protocol, but even there you were given different pieces of the narrative depending on your choices, rather than the narrative actually changing.
 

Phelot

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The problem with most modern games trying to "storytell" is that they try to do it as a movie... as a VERY long movie, with basic camera angles (imagine watching a movie in which all the dialogue is simply the camera focusing on the face of the current person talking... yeah doesn't sound to good to me either.) poor voice acting, and even poorer bodily acting, potentially ugly characters full of weird graphical glitches, and an assortment of other flaws that all distract you from this "emotional engagement" whatever the fuck that's even suppose to mean.

Basically, half or even more of the development time appears to be wasted on these supposedly "innovative" movie making techniques.

Give me a dialogue box with a nice NPC portrait any day over cinematic experiences that suck.
 

DraQ

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Sceptic said:
DraQ said:
What if only certain modules of the story were predetermined and it was the gameplay writing much of the proper narrative?
Major clarification needed: is that narrative coming out of the game, or being filled in by the player?
I mean the narrative being co-authored, by makers (crucial parts of the story, important characters, dialogue and other things requiring direct scripting), player (decisions affecting both, scripted branches, and influencing the events via mechanics), and events randomly generated by the game itself.

Also, I should have clarified I specifically meant games that are around and that we can play. A game with a dynamic narrative being constantly updated by thousands of variables set by player action would be absolutely awesome, but we're not there yet. Closest game I can think of that did this was Alpha Protocol, but even there you were given different pieces of the narrative depending on your choices, rather than the narrative actually changing.
Personally I'm modelling my ideal around Daggerfall, or rather Daggerfall that wasn't, with added elements from other games.

The problem isn't hat we aren't there yet, the problem is that we are not even going the right way.
 

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