In Progress [LP CYOA] Tower

[Baltika9]

It's also pointed out clearly in the update that Sophie is the only one left alone right now, which is also a pretty good sign that calling for help will not do her much good if something happens.

Yes, because treave never stokes our paranoia with ambiguous descriptions. /s

The whole point of the situation is that we are a novice who has no idea of how this battle will develop. I say take the initative and force the enemy to react.

Call me cautious but I think our best move is to see to Sophie's protection here. Elizabeth

Fair enough. I think that 2D is a waste of initiative and the opportunity to prove ourselves to a potential mentor. As well as a waste of Elizabeth Points, which may or may not exist.

 

[Tigranes]

The swamp is I think the big point of worry. If we go help Elizabeth and come back quickly, sure, it would put us in a good position, but we do have to take the risk of leaving Sophie undefended and grandma hopefully doing OK against an unknown and unforeseen enemy. (Gma may know what it is, she may not, she may be prepared for it, she may not).

The clear source of danger right now is here, not over there. Everything you mention just now, baltika, about seems far more secondary and tangential concerns.

 

[Absinthe]

Yes, because treave never stokes our paranoia with ambiguous descriptions. /s

Saying Sophie is the only one left alone is not an ambiguous description.

The whole point of the situation is that we are a novice who has no idea of how this battle will develop. I say take the initative and force the enemy to react.

I don't think we should look at our goal as being trying to win the battle here. Tlalli will handle that. We just need to minimize casualties.

Fair enough. I think that 2D is a waste of initiative and the opportunity to prove ourselves to a potential mentor. As well as a waste of Elizabeth Points, which may or may not exist.

Try 2A then. It's a tad riskier (and more likely to get us injured) but if you want initiative that can help settle this, that's probably the way to go. Although with 2A I might favor brass knuckles over revolver, since there's less risk of friendly fire that way. My concern is that we're really the side character to this fight and we should recognize our role as such. If we try to act like we're the hero here we're more likely to fuck something up than if we try to keep our side out of harm's way.

 

[hello friend]

Tlalli has indicated earlier that she's fairly confident in facing a shapeshifter one on one, but that she can't chase one successfully. The one shapeshifter is in melee range, thus it is less likely it will be able to run off. It's still a possibility. Elizabeth has, as others have pointed out, great mobility and a fearsome guard dog. Sophie is a sitting duck. Every other plan seems to rely on the fact that nothing will go wrong, guarding Sophie is a way of hedging our bets. If this Tlalli character was looking for an apprentice with potential, I'm sure she'd rather have a cool headed apprentice who could be expected to gauge danger and manage risks accordingly - be a smart hunter - rather than be a 10yo little dipshit who'll mindlessly zerg the biggest and baddest animal he sees at the first opportunity. Being small and weak, the brass knuckles don't seem like the greatest equaliser. We're tough as shit, though. We might get lucky or be able to delay. We're good at using the slingshot. Pebbles don't seem all that great against a monster, but hey a high velocity dense projectile is not nothing. We might get lucky. Revolvers seem a little risky as well, we might fuck up but presumably Tlalli won't give a 10yo a gun without at least a little crash course. High damage potential, and sweet loot as well. The sword, while being (imo) the coolest option, is also the worst one. It'll be unwieldy to use and we'll just cut ourselves up with it. I think the safest bet is the sling, but it is also the most boring bet. Guns, man. Who doesn't like guns?

 

[Baltika9]

I don't think we should look at our goal as being trying to win the battle here. Tlalli will handle that. We just need to minimize casualties.

My concern is that we're really the side character to this fight and we should recognize our role as such. If we try to act like we're the hero here we're more likely to fuck something up than if we try to keep our side out of harm's way.

Every other plan seems to rely on the fact that nothing will go wrong, guarding Sophie is a way of hedging our bets.

Thank you for stating the bold part, this identifies the source of our disagreement and should help us avoid arguing in circles, as we are wont to do.

I think that this is the time for us to be aggressive and approach the situation with a mindset for victory, not to sit on the sidelines. I say this not because I want to chase glory, but because the original plan fell apart and Tlalli might not have the entire situation under control anymore. I have confidence that she can take down her shapeshifter, but should Bernard not handle the one him and Elizabeth are chasing, then they are in trouble. As impressive as he is, Bernard is just a leopard.

I think that it is more important to control the battlefield variables we are aware of, namely the two shifters. We have no guarantee that there are more of them in the bushes.

I think it's unlikely that Tlalli's opponent can slip past her melee skills, fire snake and her decades of experience. We have an opponent who is wounded, but not disabled, fighting the leopard and Elizabeth ('a cornered animal is more dangerous' comes to mind). I would prefer we focus on these two opponents and try to defeat them, instead of letting them dictate the terms of the engagement.

The swamp is I think the big point of worry. If we go help Elizabeth and come back quickly, sure, it would put us in a good position, but we do have to take the risk of leaving Sophie undefended and grandma hopefully doing OK against an unknown and unforeseen enemy. (Gma may know what it is, she may not, she may be prepared for it, she may not).

The clear source of danger right now is here, not over there. Everything you mention just now, baltika, about seems far more secondary and tangential concerns.

The update does state that it's 'another shifter,' both from Sophie's words and the description for D.

Try 2A then.

Yeah, I'm warming up to it. If I flop, it'll be to AA. I want to be like gramma.

 

[Tigranes]

I get that the plan was for us to catch up to team Liz/Bern (oh wow i see) and finish the shifter, so that part of the battlefield has deviated from the plan too. Now let's say we take a gun - do we have reason to be confident that we can go there and quickly wrap up the situation? Just go in and shoot and hope we can aim, and then bring them back?

 

[Baltika9]

Now let's say we take a gun - do we have reason to be confident that we can go there and quickly wrap up the situation? Just go in and shoot and hope we can aim, and then bring them back?

That's what I'm thinking yes. I think our aim will be alright at close range, we exhausted this discussion over the last two pages. With three on one (Bernard, Elizabeth and us with a revolver vs. a wounded shifter), I think we can dispatch him quickly.

If necessary, Elizabeth has the boots of free movement (I assume they work as advertised) to help her relocate quickly and buy either Elizabeth or Tlalli time with her grenade, or just a distraction, until we or Bernard arrive for backup.

 

[Absinthe]

The problem is that you leave Sophie undefended, which is a very dangerous prospect imo, since she's the one person who can't defend herself.

 

[Baltika9]

The problem is that you leave Sophie undefended, which is a very dangerous prospect imo, since she's the one person who can't defend herself.

We already covered this: Sophie is only in imminent danger if you assume that Tlalli won't be able to hold down her opponent with all of her tricks and experience, or if there's a third shifter hiding in the bushes. Neither are impossible, but I think that if we finish the shifter that's going after Elizabeth, we'll be able to react as needed.

I'll pipe down now, to let others catch up and let the willing express their viewpoints.

Edit: another thing we ought to consider is whether or not the situation can spiral out of control if we sit back. If, for instance, the wounded changeling overpowers Bernard and goes for Elizabeth, or decides to tag-team Tlallia, then we are in deep trouble as well.

 

[Esquilax]

Guys, let's take the choice of weapon out of the equation for a second and take a look at the battlefield as a whole. While I try to avoid spamming, I think I'm presenting a point here that only Tigranes has alluded to so far. Tigranes Baltika9 Nevill Absinthe Lambchop19 ItsChon Azira Kz3r0 baud

“A second one! Be careful!” shouts Sophie suddenly. “It’s coming from underneath!”
...
Another beast appears, leaping out of the swamp like a fish from water. Tlalli is already whirling around, swinging her macuahuitl at the new enemy. Her strike cleanly cleaves one of the fins, and she follows up with a kick that sends the huge beast flying. It transforms before it hits the ground; the flesh shrinks, the fur recedes into straggly black hair, the snout shortens into a more human-like visage which is still grotesque in the rows of jagged teeth lining its mouth.

The hag raises its bent and scrawny limbs and makes an ululating curse, glaring murderously at Tlalli. The water begins to rise, turning the swamp into an even worse mire.

treave, did Grandma Tlalli give us any info on these shifters? Do they live in swampy environments and lurk inside there?

I have a feeling that we've stumbled onto these creatures' natural habitat, and there might be more of them. One burst out of the swamp, and is fleeing, presumably wounded, and headed in the direction of Liz and Bernard, who are lying in wait:

But Tlalli handled both forms with ease, overpowering the beast with inhuman strength and intercepting the monster’s fire with her own burning winged snake. It did not take long before the shapeshifter decided to flee, herded by Tlalli towards the spot where Elizabeth and Bernard were waiting.

Okay, so this shapeshifter, is doing exactly what Grandma wants - heading in the direction of a trap, courtesy of Liz and Bernard. If Tlalli thought that Bernard wasn't capable of handling it, this wouldn't be part of the plan. They don't need any help. That rules 2C out.

As for protecting Sophie, I think that 2E does exactly that. Yeah, the goal is to protect Sophie, but you have to think to yourself - well, where are these creatures coming from? Well, duh, the swamp. So it's much smarter to cut them down/shoot them down as they emerge rather than wait for them to be fully prepared/ready to attack while we're already with Sophie. 2E is preemptive, and stops the problem before these creatures manage to reach Sophie.

Weapon-wise, I gotta say, I don't like the revolver. I'd prefer our guy to have more primitive weaponry - I think it fits the character concept a bit better.

1B
2D

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Guys the ranged weapons are only useful if you have ammo. Can't run out of ammo for fist or blade.

 

[Baltika9]

Thank you for breaking us out of our circlejerk, Esquilax.

If Tlalli thought that Bernard wasn't capable of handling it, this wouldn't be part of the plan. They don't need any help. That rules 2C out.

Not quite. The original plan involved Tlallia finishing the lone hsifter off by herself:

Tlalli quickly runs through the plan she thought up. It seems that the shifter is lurking in a swampy area nearby. After Sophie sets sight on the shifter, you will map the surrounding area with your book, which will help Tlalli determine where the quarry will likely flee. That is where Elizabeth will get into position, moving deeper into the swamp by using her boots; the swampy terrain meant that Tlalli wouldn’t be able to keep up easily once it decided to run. Tlalli hands Elizabeth a small bronze orb, telling her that all she needs to do is to toss it at the shifter when the monster is chased that way. It’ll weaken and slow the shifter down enough so that Tlalli can put it down for good.

Unless we are confident in the leopard's ability to do the job itself, then I think we ought to reinforce Elizabeth to compensate for Tlalli's absence. In the absence of a pissed off grandma with a sharp stick, an angry ten year-old with a gun will have to do.

That said, I do like E, but it will only work if there's another shifter. Else, we will pass up our ability to help anyone and we'll look pretty dumb to boot. It's a gamble, but the pay off is huge.

I also want to retract a point i made previously:

and the opportunity to prove ourselves to a potential mentor.

We don't need to prove anything to her. She's already impressed enough to take us hunting and she even gave us weapons. This implies trust and cofidence.

I'd prefer our guy to have more primitive weaponry - I think it fits the character concept a bit better.

Meh. I want granny's gun, but a stick is nice too. We can be her mini-me!

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

As for protecting Sophie, I think that 2E does exactly that. Yeah, the goal is to protect Sophie, but you have to think to yourself - well, where are these creatures coming from? Well, duh, the swamp. So it's much smarter to cut them down/shoot them down as they emerge rather than wait for them to be fully prepared/ready to attack while we're already with Sophie. 2E is preemptive, and stops the problem before these creatures manage to reach Sophie.

Again, I would caution against "have your cake and eat it too" options.

It never works out.

I get that you're assuming we have a ranged weapon and would be waiting like a sniper, except our accuracy sucks. It would be better for us to be on the ground near whomever we are trying to protect.

Especially since 1C appears to be winning and we have never shot a gun in our life.

 

[treave]

May as well ask treave whether we can make it to Elizabeth's group before the shifter arrives.

You won't make it there before the shifter arrives - even Tlalli wouldn't have if things were going fully to plan.

treave, did Grandma Tlalli give us any info on these shifters? Do they live in swampy environments and lurk inside there?

She did not tell you much, but you know she was only expecting one, and that she started tracking this thing on a different floor.

 

[Baltika9]

May as well ask treave whether we can make it to Elizabeth's group before the shifter arrives.

You won't make it there before the shifter arrives - even Tlalli wouldn't have if things were going fully to plan.

What are the distances between the groups? Is Sophie close enough to Tlalli so that the latter can react if she kills her opponent quickly?

 

[Esquilax]

Guys the ranged weapons are only useful if you have ammo. Can't run out of ammo for fist or blade.

They all, I'm sure have their respective strengths and weaknesses. And to be honest, would have the same potential for either ranged/melee weapons anyways, so it makes sense to just pick whatever weapon you think is the coolest.

If you want our Hunter to have a little bit of cowboy in him, go with the revolver. If you like a more primal, Tarzan kind of vibe, like I do, the sword/slingshot seems more in that direction. If you are a dedicated member of the Zhang Jue Appreciation Society (which should be everybody, btw), go with the knuckles.

Tlalli quickly runs through the plan she thought up. It seems that the shifter is lurking in a swampy area nearby. After Sophie sets sight on the shifter, you will map the surrounding area with your book, which will help Tlalli determine where the quarry will likely flee. That is where Elizabeth will get into position, moving deeper into the swamp by using her boots; the swampy terrain meant that Tlalli wouldn’t be able to keep up easily once it decided to run. Tlalli hands Elizabeth a small bronze orb, telling her that all she needs to do is to toss it at the shifter when the monster is chased that way. It’ll weaken and slow the shifter down enough so that Tlalli can put it down for good.

Unless we are confident in the leopard's ability to do the job itself, then I think we ought to reinforce Elizabeth to compensate for Tlalli's absence. In the absence of a pissed off grandma with a sharp stick, an angry ten year-old with a gun will have to do.

That said, I do like E, but it will only work if there's another shifter. Else, we will pass up our ability to help anyone and we'll look pretty dumb to boot. It's a gamble, but the pay off is huge.

Okay great, then that was within Grandma's expectations anyways. When the monster comes Liz's way, throw the orb, then she'll come and finish it off. That's all part of the battle plan.

Again, I would caution against "have your cake and eat it too" options.

It never works out.

I get that you're assuming we have a ranged weapon and would be waiting like a sniper, except our accuracy sucks. It would be better for us to be on the ground near whomever we are trying to protect.

I don't think that this is a "have your cake and eat it" kind of argument I'm presenting, though. Or at least, I hope not! As these LP's have shown many times in the past, sometimes one choice is better than the others. My argument is this: Shapeshifters are emerging from the swamp > The swamp is the focus of the battle/danger zone > Therefore, keep an eye on the swamp and shoot/stab anything that comes out of there, before it gets the chance to reach Sophie. It's pretty simple and not overly complicated. Obviously, I'm basing this on the assumption that these things are emerging from the swamp, but I don't feel like I pulled that one out of my ass either, as I based it off the update.

Besides, as an unskilled marksman, I'd rather get a shot off at something that is still trying to get it's bearings from a position of relative safety than when it's running straight for us/Sophie. We're a Hunter, and we ought to think like one. Hunters are patient, they wait for the right moment.

 

[Baltika9]

Tlalli quickly runs through the plan she thought up. It seems that the shifter is lurking in a swampy area nearby. After Sophie sets sight on the shifter, you will map the surrounding area with your book, which will help Tlalli determine where the quarry will likely flee. That is where Elizabeth will get into position, moving deeper into the swamp by using her boots; the swampy terrain meant that Tlalli wouldn’t be able to keep up easily once it decided to run. Tlalli hands Elizabeth a small bronze orb, telling her that all she needs to do is to toss it at the shifter when the monster is chased that way. It’ll weaken and slow the shifter down enough so that Tlalli can put it down for good.

Unless we are confident in the leopard's ability to do the job itself, then I think we ought to reinforce Elizabeth to compensate for Tlalli's absence. In the absence of a pissed off grandma with a sharp stick, an angry ten year-old with a gun will have to do.

That said, I do like E, but it will only work if there's another shifter. Else, we will pass up our ability to help anyone and we'll look pretty dumb to boot. It's a gamble, but the pay off is huge.

Okay great, then that was within Grandma's expectations anyways. When the monster comes Liz's way, throw the orb, then she'll come and finish it off. That's all part of the battle plan.

Except Talli is tied down with another shifter, and Elizabeth is a good distance away from her:

May as well ask treave whether we can make it to Elizabeth's group before the shifter arrives.

You won't make it there before the shifter arrives - even Tlalli wouldn't have if things were going fully to plan.

Again, that part of the battle is not going according to plan. Whereas the original plan involved Tlalli backing up Bernard and Liz, the situation now has only Liz and Bernard against that shifter. I think it would be best if we took care of the known variables first, before focusing on the unknowns.

 

[Kz3r0]

The two most logical courses of action are either protecting Sophie or help Elizabeth to quickly dispatch her opponent.
Helping Tlalli can get us stuck unless we are sure to kill the target very quickly, acting as an observer is pointless, we are not a sniper.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

What are the distances between the groups? Is Sophie close enough to Tlalli so that the latter can react if she kills her opponent quickly?

And if Tlalli doesn't kill her opponent quickly?

Sophie is far more vulnerable than Liz. Liz's boots will give her a movement advantage over all of us and she has a lethal animal as her guardian and not a busy old lady or a dumb 10-year-old that thinks this is a romance option choice and is about to ditch her.

Plus, strategically, Liz is a worthless target. If they take out Sophie on the other hand, we won't be able to see them coming anymore and we'll be screwed.

Also, it would really suck if Sophie died. She didn't even want to come along. It was Liz who suggested it. Even if Sophie just gets taken, we won't be able to see them and we'll have no way to find her. Dead.

 

[Esquilax]

Again, that part of the battle is not going according to plan. Whereas the original plan involved Tlalli backing up Bernard and Liz, the situation now has only Liz and Bernard against that shifter. I think it would be best if we took care of the known variables first, before focusing on the unknowns.

Ah, right. There was the assumption going in of only one shifter, and now Tlalli got tied down with a fight with the second one.

That being said, I nevertheless feel like we gotta adapt. I get that we can't just look at unknown variables and try to account for them, but in my mind, there is just way too much evidence of more shifters being present:

But Tlalli handled both forms with ease, overpowering the beast with inhuman strength and intercepting the monster’s fire with her own burning winged snake. It did not take long before the shapeshifter decided to flee, herded by Tlalli towards the spot where Elizabeth and Bernard were waiting.

“A second one! Be careful!” shouts Sophie suddenly. “It’s coming from underneath!”

Another beast appears, leaping out of the swamp like a fish from water. Tlalli is already whirling around, swinging her macuahuitl at the new enemy. Her strike cleanly cleaves one of the fins, and she follows up with a kick that sends the huge beast flying. It transforms before it hits the ground; the flesh shrinks, the fur recedes into straggly black hair, the snout shortens into a more human-like visage which is still grotesque in the rows of jagged teeth lining its mouth.

The hag raises its bent and scrawny limbs and makes an ululating curse, glaring murderously at Tlalli. The water begins to rise, turning the swamp into an even worse mire.

We came in assuming one shifter, but a second one emerged from the swamp. Curiously, the water began rising at the end of the update, leading me to believe that whatever danger is happening or likely to happen, it's going to come from the swamp.

If Sophie is in danger, it's extremely unlikely that something would come up behind her - if something is coming after her, it'll come from the swamp. Tlalli has one shifter under control: leave her to it. The second shifter is heading in Bernard and Liz's direction: while not as adept as Grandma, Bernard is capable enough and Liz has the orb. That leaves us to take care of anything that might come out of the swamp. Given that we've already had one shifter spring out of there, and an ominous clue at the end, which leads me to believe that that area is where we need to focus our attention.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

My argument is this: Shapeshifters are emerging from the swamp > The swamp is the focus of the battle/danger zone > Therefore, keep an eye on the swamp and shoot/stab anything that comes out of there, before it gets the chance to reach Sophie.

These things are apparently fast. I don't have faith in our ability to kill something before it does anything.

And what if it doesn't come from the swamp? We know Tlalli started tracking her target on another level, so they clearly aren't tied to the swamp in any way that would force them to be there. What if it comes from a place closer to Sophie and out position is too far away to do anything with any accuracy?

Also, if we have a gun, we want to keep Sophie behind us when we fire. Frankly, I doubt we'll even be able to get off a shot and will fumble with a safety or similar, but if we do and hit Sophie, well, that would suck even worse.

And if we are sane and pick the sharp blade, it should be obvious that we would be better suited being able to place ourselves between her and whatever is trying to attack her.

 

[Baltika9]

We came in assuming one shifter, but a second one emerged from the swamp. Curiously, the water began rising at the end of the update, leading me to believe that whatever danger is happening or likely to happen, it's going to come from the swamp.

It is also possible that the shifter is doing this for the simple reason of putting Tlalli in rought terrain, where it has the advantage. But yes, it's definitely possible that it may be preparing grounds for an ambush. And even if there is no one else coming behind, we're still in a position to assist Sophie if someone does go after her. Alright, consider me swayed.

Flipping my flip-flops to D>A>C E>C. I do want to be like grandma, hitting stuff and doesn't afraid of anything.

What are the distances between the groups? Is Sophie close enough to Tlalli so that the latter can react if she kills her opponent quickly?

And if Tlalli doesn't kill her opponent quickly?
...
Also, it would really suck if Sophie died. She didn't even want to come along. It was Liz who suggested it. Even if Sophie just gets taken, we won't be able to see them and we'll have no way to find her. Dead.

I've addressed this point earlier: Tlalli is a woman with decades of experience, a ranged fire spell and big fuck-off sword-club. It took her less than a second to slice off an ear from her changeling. Tlalli will be okay, which means she can help Sophie be okay.

If they take out Sophie on the other hand, we won't be able to see them coming anymore and we'll be screwed.

The changelings don't know that, though. Also, I'm not agitating for 2C for romance points. We're ten years old, bro.

Helping Tlalli can get us stuck unless we are sure to kill the target very quickly,

Moreover, I'm worried that we'll just be in her way.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

The changelings don't know that, though

How do you know that?

And even if they didn't know it, think like a predator for a moment: who do you target?

The weakest member of the herd. That would be Sophie, since she's on her own.

 

[Esquilax]

These things are apparently fast. I don't have faith in our ability to kill something before it does anything.

Assuming I'm correct (which, granted, if I'm right) I'd rather get a shot at it/a chance to stick this creature while it's just leapt out of the muck rather than when it's charging at us full-speed. It's an even less appealing option to fight these things when they are ready and aware of their surroundings.

And what if it doesn't come from the swamp? We know Tlalli started tracking her target on another level, so they clearly aren't tied to the swamp in any way that would force them to be there. What if it comes from a place closer to Sophie and out position is too far away to do anything with any accuracy?

Sure, that was a bit of curious speculation on my part. Was just wondering if this is their habitat - obviously, as treave said, that's not the case. These things aren't tied to the swamp and it's not their "habitat" for lack of a better word. But nonetheless, both of them came from the swamp, and it seems to be a great place to hide. While it's possible for them to come from elsewhere, they've all attacked us from the same area so far.

I think it helps to put ourselves in the shoes of the shapeshifter: A crazy old-lady Hunter is coming after me? What do I do? I know she's going to track me down eventually, so I try and even the odds by making the battlefield conditions favourable. I allow her to track me down, then get her stuck in a bunch of mucky swamp water with poor visibility, where I also get a few of my allies to to lie in wait as well (after all, where else would they hide?). A swamp seems like a great place to turn a trap against your would-be pursuer.

They could be anywhere, I acknowledge that, but one has already emerged from the swamp that we haven't accounted for, and I reckon that there wouldn't be any other nearby areas where it would be as easy to hide.

Your logic (which makes perfect sense!) is this: Sophie is our eyes and ears on the battlefield > Sophie is vulnerable > Stay close to Sophie and attack anything coming her way. I'm just taking that one step further; my logic goes, Sophie is our eyes and ears on the battlefield > Sophie is vulnerable > Prevent any threats from reaching Sophie. And so far, since all of our threats have come from the swamp, I think that we ought to focus our efforts there.

Anyways, I think that'll be it for my posting on and on about this choice - think I've said my piece. I just felt particularly passionate about this one and wanted to open up the discussion a bit.

 

[treave]

What are the distances between the groups? Is Sophie close enough to Tlalli so that the latter can react if she kills her opponent quickly?

Nothing is ever 100% certain.