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Interview Master Creating help to break Action RPG drought!
- Thread starter Section8
- Start date
Fez
Erudite
- Joined
- May 18, 2004
- Messages
- 7,954
Long ramble of early impressions: The visuals and engine. I find them excellent and they run well without lag problems even in big fights. The anomalies look great and sometimes make for good puzzles. The combat against man and beast so far is fun and reminiscent of the Hitman games for me, but it does need balancing and tweaking. The AI can sometimes be a joy in combat when it seemingly starts flanking and sneaking on you (and not committing suicide by walking straight into an obvious anomaly). The atmosphere is great, it feels like I am in a post-apocalyptic environment and for the most part the immersion in that isn't being broken. The way the NPCs wander, talk and play guitar by the fire are all similar to the Gothic NPCs too.
The counterbalance to this is the AI sometimes doing colossally stupid things, the respawning waves of bandits and other enemies (sometimes right in front of you where it is jarring), various random bugs of the mundane sort, impossible or too tight timing on the quests (I've "failed" a few quests because I was forced to walk miles to the other side of the map to get the reward for completing the quest. That's right, even if you kill the big foozle within the 24 time limit you have to come back and claim it or you take the hit as if you failed completely or didn't even bother. Same with retrieving items for people and such, so you might arrive five minutes late with some treasured heirloom that someone has been looking for for ages and then be ignored as the quest has officially failed. Sucks. Sometimes the quests are generated for areas you cannot get to fast enough yet because of the plot or sheer distance and so on and you have no indication of these before accepting, sometimes these random quests are forced on you without you having any say in the matter too. I had one happen where an outpost broadcasted an open request to all free Stalkers around for help against an impending mutant attack, I ran straight there but every time I was too late and the people at the outpost easily wiped out the attack and I personally was contacted and had heaps of abuse poured on me by the local leader of that faction, despite the fact I didn't choose to accept the mission and it wasn't directed at me in the first place. This happens whether you are at the other end of the map for the duration or in the outpost at the time. I tried reloading it several times, but I was simply too far away to get there in time to make a difference. Sucks.
The middle ground where it is debatable would be the carry limit and the lack of traders, by that I mean that I'd like it if the average Stalker would be willing to buy whatever you had, even if it was a less favorable exchange than the true traders it would work fine for me. As it is all the Stalkers don't want anything but consumables and artefacts. I hate having to load up on a couple of guns and then spend hours walking back to the trader while wheezing like an asthmatic. Same goes for trying to salvage special items.
It's early days for me yet, so my opinion might change or I may discover some aspect, but I'd love it if there were vehicles to speed up the dull journeys, even if they were in game terms "teleporters" like the town to town travel in Morrowind. The combination of long walks and too-frequent respawning makes for an irritating journey and all the harder to store any loot you have - especially the unique or rare loot like weapon upgrades and so on. Being able to hire people into a squad as backup or pack mules would be great too, but maybe that comes later on. The shops could also be a lot better as right now my vast wealth seems useless. The economy seems broken in that I have heaps of items to sell (so much so in that it is a chore and seems increasingly pointless to gather loot), but nothing worth buying as I found the best gun so far lying on the ground, the traders sell tiny ranges of items and they are rarely useful. I was also given the best armor I can find so far as part of the plot (after spending ages looking for some and only getting a slight upgrade). I know there are several suits of armor in the game that they could have given me or made available, but I was forced into wearing this shitty leather coat I got at the start for ages before leaping ahead to this Stalker suit that blows all that other stuff away. It should make available the more gradual upgrade cycle so you can spend some of that money, where are all these other people getting all that equipment otherwise and why are they bothering to gather that money if it is useless?
If you like FPS combat and the Gothic games you probably would like it more about it than dislike. I know it can't be all that bad as I haven't quit in frustration despite numerous random deaths.
The counterbalance to this is the AI sometimes doing colossally stupid things, the respawning waves of bandits and other enemies (sometimes right in front of you where it is jarring), various random bugs of the mundane sort, impossible or too tight timing on the quests (I've "failed" a few quests because I was forced to walk miles to the other side of the map to get the reward for completing the quest. That's right, even if you kill the big foozle within the 24 time limit you have to come back and claim it or you take the hit as if you failed completely or didn't even bother. Same with retrieving items for people and such, so you might arrive five minutes late with some treasured heirloom that someone has been looking for for ages and then be ignored as the quest has officially failed. Sucks. Sometimes the quests are generated for areas you cannot get to fast enough yet because of the plot or sheer distance and so on and you have no indication of these before accepting, sometimes these random quests are forced on you without you having any say in the matter too. I had one happen where an outpost broadcasted an open request to all free Stalkers around for help against an impending mutant attack, I ran straight there but every time I was too late and the people at the outpost easily wiped out the attack and I personally was contacted and had heaps of abuse poured on me by the local leader of that faction, despite the fact I didn't choose to accept the mission and it wasn't directed at me in the first place. This happens whether you are at the other end of the map for the duration or in the outpost at the time. I tried reloading it several times, but I was simply too far away to get there in time to make a difference. Sucks.
The middle ground where it is debatable would be the carry limit and the lack of traders, by that I mean that I'd like it if the average Stalker would be willing to buy whatever you had, even if it was a less favorable exchange than the true traders it would work fine for me. As it is all the Stalkers don't want anything but consumables and artefacts. I hate having to load up on a couple of guns and then spend hours walking back to the trader while wheezing like an asthmatic. Same goes for trying to salvage special items.
It's early days for me yet, so my opinion might change or I may discover some aspect, but I'd love it if there were vehicles to speed up the dull journeys, even if they were in game terms "teleporters" like the town to town travel in Morrowind. The combination of long walks and too-frequent respawning makes for an irritating journey and all the harder to store any loot you have - especially the unique or rare loot like weapon upgrades and so on. Being able to hire people into a squad as backup or pack mules would be great too, but maybe that comes later on. The shops could also be a lot better as right now my vast wealth seems useless. The economy seems broken in that I have heaps of items to sell (so much so in that it is a chore and seems increasingly pointless to gather loot), but nothing worth buying as I found the best gun so far lying on the ground, the traders sell tiny ranges of items and they are rarely useful. I was also given the best armor I can find so far as part of the plot (after spending ages looking for some and only getting a slight upgrade). I know there are several suits of armor in the game that they could have given me or made available, but I was forced into wearing this shitty leather coat I got at the start for ages before leaping ahead to this Stalker suit that blows all that other stuff away. It should make available the more gradual upgrade cycle so you can spend some of that money, where are all these other people getting all that equipment otherwise and why are they bothering to gather that money if it is useless?
If you like FPS combat and the Gothic games you probably would like it more about it than dislike. I know it can't be all that bad as I haven't quit in frustration despite numerous random deaths.
Sir_Brennus
Scholar
I can't believe we do the "ALL ACTION CRPGS ARE BULL" dance again.
We did it already for LEGEND - HAND OF GOD" and dev Jan L. posted some promising details, do you remember ???
- dialogue system
- dynamic quests
- quests that could be solved soley by talking
Where's that in D1+2, TQ, DS1+2?
More important: And where is that in FATE or MYTHIC? Point me to those quests - I will follow.
I think those guys try something different. If you want to bash something too formalistic than bash LOKI, which never wanted to do something different.
Or even better: Bash HELLGATE LONDON cause it's a trainwreck I can't wait to see crashing.
We did it already for LEGEND - HAND OF GOD" and dev Jan L. posted some promising details, do you remember ???
- dialogue system
- dynamic quests
- quests that could be solved soley by talking
Where's that in D1+2, TQ, DS1+2?
More important: And where is that in FATE or MYTHIC? Point me to those quests - I will follow.
I think those guys try something different. If you want to bash something too formalistic than bash LOKI, which never wanted to do something different.
Or even better: Bash HELLGATE LONDON cause it's a trainwreck I can't wait to see crashing.
Sir_Brennus
Scholar
Kraszu said:
I don't. I really dispise them. Nearly as much as TES and UU.
Kraszu said:
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14256
Jan Beuchner wrote
Crichton
Prophet
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2004
- Messages
- 1,220
This debate seems stupid, even by codex standards, without some sort of set time-period (i.e. ever, or within the last 10 years or of the stuff not yet released) and/or some sort of adjustment for how many developers there are on each side.
Just counting vaguely recent RPGs that I found playable on both sides we have
N. America:
IE games
Arcanum (gold star for goodness)
fallouts
Bloodlines
Deus Ex
KotOR games
NWN2
Europe
Gothic games
In non-RPG land, the other side of the pond gets credit for the wonderful paradox games and the max payne games. That's almost enough for me to forgive "fable".
How many RPG developers are there on both sides? Enough to expect more than three worthwhile RPGs from europe? I dunno.
I really couldn't care less as to which side has the worse clicky-click diablo-style games. For me, trying to decide whether hellgate will be worse than silverfall is like trying to decide if it's better to be drowned or burned alive.
Just counting vaguely recent RPGs that I found playable on both sides we have
N. America:
IE games
Arcanum (gold star for goodness)
fallouts
Bloodlines
Deus Ex
KotOR games
NWN2
Europe
Gothic games
In non-RPG land, the other side of the pond gets credit for the wonderful paradox games and the max payne games. That's almost enough for me to forgive "fable".
How many RPG developers are there on both sides? Enough to expect more than three worthwhile RPGs from europe? I dunno.
I really couldn't care less as to which side has the worse clicky-click diablo-style games. For me, trying to decide whether hellgate will be worse than silverfall is like trying to decide if it's better to be drowned or burned alive.
zioburosky13
Educated
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2007
- Messages
- 79
Sir_Brennus said:
My point is Russian can make uber game too :D
Comparing so long period of time make no sense, in Europe there is much less developers and it past the difference was even bigger. I don't care if game is from Europe or elswere but concerning upcoming titles some from Europe look promising mostly The Witcher and Dragon Lord.
I know but I was referring to: "I can't believe we do the "ALL ACTION CRPGS ARE BULL" dance again." Anyway what was wrong whit Gothic games? Let say G2.
I know but I was referring to: "I can't believe we do the "ALL ACTION CRPGS ARE BULL" dance again." Anyway what was wrong whit Gothic games? Let say G2.
Sir_Brennus
Scholar
Crichton said:
Crichton
Prophet
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2004
- Messages
- 1,220
I count the last 10 years as "vaguely recently" if you'd like to talk about what good games are going to be released this year and next, we're going to have to take a little jaunt in the TARDIS. There's no point in speculating about it.
There's also no point in talking about how many shit games are produced in any given place, which is why I only list the games I found worth playing, if you found 136 RPGs worth playing in that period, then you'll never want for shit to swallow so don't worry about who's producing what.
As for Divine Divinity, I've played the first half four times. I can never make it to the 2nd half because all the mindless clicking on orcs/skeletons puts me to sleep. I agree that's it's just like U7, but that's no complement in my book.
Sir_Brennus
Scholar
Crichton said:
I could do with a nice DMC car
Well, for the past few years (which is 2004-2007) in my book, in think these European products can be considered "good"
Fall, The (Extended Edition) 2004
Kult - Heretic Kingdoms 2004
Sacred 2004 + Underworld
Star Wolves 2005
Gods: Lands of Infinity 2006
Hammer & Sickle 2006
Star Wolves 2 2006
Night Watch 2006
For you there may be no "classics" in this list, but I am sure about the upcoming WORLD OF CHAOS which will ship next week and is developed in Hungary.
Do yourself a favour and examine the following screenshots
http://www.bhvftp.com/www/woc-game.de/templates/images/galerie/003.jpg
http://www.bhvftp.com/www/woc-game.de/templates/images/galerie/001.jpg
http://www.bhvftp.com/www/woc-game.de/templates/images/galerie/woc_screenshot01.jpg
What do you think?
Crichton
Prophet
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2004
- Messages
- 1,220
I wouldn't put down anything on that list as worth playing except maybe star wolves, and it's not an RPG.
I would strongly advise not getting excited about any game that hasn't been released to avoid quigs/fable syndrome. There's just no way of telling what the whole game is going to be like from the little out-of-context snippets the devs release. As for the screens, they're rather low res by g3/obivious standards and many people look as if they're floating, but the art direction looks ok, so I'd rate the graphix about on par with oblivious.
edit: missing "not"
I would strongly advise not getting excited about any game that hasn't been released to avoid quigs/fable syndrome. There's just no way of telling what the whole game is going to be like from the little out-of-context snippets the devs release. As for the screens, they're rather low res by g3/obivious standards and many people look as if they're floating, but the art direction looks ok, so I'd rate the graphix about on par with oblivious.
edit: missing "not"
enchanted_eyeball
Novice
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 27
Sir_Brennus said:Crichton said:
I could do with a nice DMC car
Well, for the past few years (which is 2004-2007) in my book, in think these European products can be considered "good"
Fall, The (Extended Edition) 2004
Kult - Heretic Kingdoms 2004
Sacred 2004 + Underworld
Star Wolves 2005
Gods: Lands of Infinity 2006
Hammer & Sickle 2006
Star Wolves 2 2006
Night Watch 2006
For you there may be no "classics" in this list, but I am sure about the upcoming WORLD OF CHAOS which will ship next week and is developed in Hungary.
Do yourself a favour and examine the following screenshots
http://www.bhvftp.com/www/woc-game.de/templates/images/galerie/003.jpg
http://www.bhvftp.com/www/woc-game.de/templates/images/galerie/001.jpg
http://www.bhvftp.com/www/woc-game.de/templates/images/galerie/woc_screenshot01.jpg
What do you think?
I'm actually following this....
here is the official site:
http://www.woc-game.com/
Let's see what happens, although I have a lot of doubts, since it comes from a very small company, from a very small country (mine) with very little money, and it doesn't have "ki113r grafixz" and it looks like it's not mouse-click reflex based and there is something about hex-based /character ability-limited based combat.
http://www.bhvftp.com/www/woc-game.de/t ... ie/003.jpg
There is nothing more typically German than not wanting to be German. That's a fact. I heard that somewhere.Sir_Brennus said:
That doesn't speak in your favour.
Now you've outdone yourself. Firstly, you apparently missed the point since your opinion isn't relevant to Kraszu's statement. Secondly, UU is pure, digitalized awesomeness.
Super. Another RPG with the "The story is key" philosophy. I'm sure the story will be totally real and epic and shit, and by that I mean crap.
Oh, and is there any reason you didn't linkify the images themselves?
Sir_Brennus
Scholar
@ Claw
That must be the dumbest post I've ever read on the Codex.
UU is BS for reasons unbearable for feeble minds like you. I concede the fact that UU1 is slightly superior to UU2. I own them both (original), I played them both and with the wisdom of playing CRPGs from 1985 till today I come to the following conclusion: They. are. bull.
The post from MC should show just one point: Not a typical ACRPG, because dialogues contain decisions and are means to solve quests. Show me that in D1... (read the above post until you understand it, or should I write it in die Heimatsprache, to make it more easy for you, mate?)
The reason I don't link the pixies is one: It is a fucking FLASH site and you can't link the pictures. If you are too dumb to google it for yourself
http://www.legend-game.de/index.php
So, stuff your postcount where your mouth is and try to make a constructive comment in a serious discussion.
[EDIT]: okay, I edited because my original post sounded to hard.
@Claw, no offence taken?
That must be the dumbest post I've ever read on the Codex.
UU is BS for reasons unbearable for feeble minds like you. I concede the fact that UU1 is slightly superior to UU2. I own them both (original), I played them both and with the wisdom of playing CRPGs from 1985 till today I come to the following conclusion: They. are. bull.
The post from MC should show just one point: Not a typical ACRPG, because dialogues contain decisions and are means to solve quests. Show me that in D1... (read the above post until you understand it, or should I write it in die Heimatsprache, to make it more easy for you, mate?)
The reason I don't link the pixies is one: It is a fucking FLASH site and you can't link the pictures. If you are too dumb to google it for yourself
http://www.legend-game.de/index.php
So, stuff your postcount where your mouth is and try to make a constructive comment in a serious discussion.
[EDIT]: okay, I edited because my original post sounded to hard.
@Claw, no offence taken?
Elwro
Arcane
Don't be afraid, we're all hardened veterans here.
What? I'm talking about the woc screenshots:Sir_Brennus said:
Was that too much work?
I missed your original post, I'm adraid. Don't worry about offending me though. I've learned to be patient and understanding towards the mentally challenged.
See, insulting someone's intelligence is hardly a great achievement. Carry on if it makes you feel better.
Mainly that the story usually isn't terribly impressive and that this "philosophy" is usually used to justify limitations of the PC's freedom. It's overused.Gambler said:
A good story doesn't let much room for freedom and nonlinearity. RPGs can live without a strong story with many twists and turns - some of the best aren't really great storywise - but not without atmosphere, a believable world and well written characters. So nothing is wrong with RPGs with a good story, but it shouldn't be "the key".Gambler said:
Sir_Brennus
Scholar
Claw said:
Let me see, I gave everyone the visible choice of looking at the thumbnail or the pic. Why is your Link-as-pic version better. Ah, I see: You discovered a new function of the forum software... Nice one. Now go and play with your little toyies again.
Claw said:
What interests me here is one question: Did you learn it by mumbling to yourself or by calling your mother names? Both I am "adraid".
@Topic
Besides Claws' BS everybody should have understood now, that MC is trying to create something different in the ARPG genre. If it's any good is left to be proven.
BTW: You can have story focus AND good atmosphere. Feel free to play KRONDOR once again.
Sol Invictus
Erudite
Why should action RPGs have dialogue choices? The whole point of action RPGs (an offshoot of roguelikes) is to beat things up, not talk your enemies to death. If I wanted to play that, I'd just play Fallout, Baldur's Gate or some other RPG.
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