Men of War II - series revival by original Men of War devs

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Because the "Real-Time Strategy" genre consists of games at the tactical, not strategic, level.

 

[ArchAngel]

I put all real time games into strategy group, especially when it is basically RTS.

 

[L'ennui]

How is the Men of War series a RTS game, though? Is Close Combat an RTS because the action unfolds in real-time? I think the demarcation between the tactical and the strategic layer (or the oft-forgotten operational level) in military parlance makes it quite clear that these games are not "strategy" in the sense we commonly associate with RTS games. You are not deciding the overarching objectives of your group/faction/country, nor are you choosing which approach would be best to achieve any given geopolitical objective. You are there, on a field of battle, tasked with leading your forces to secure maximal effect on the local battlespace. Tactics.

 

[adddeed]

Are they still using the same game engine since 2004 and Soldiers Heroes of WWII? Looks like it to me.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Infinitron]

More from RPS guy: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/me...-complex-but-still-accessible-to-a-war-newbie

Men Of War 2's tactics are impressively complex, but still accessible to a war newbie​

In the trenches

At Gamescom I sat down with a lovely ice cold beer and two lovely lads who ran me through military real-time tactics sequel Men Of War II in a 45-minute hands-off presentation. As a total freshman to the series, I was a little intimidated by the prospect of sinking my feet into the trenches of a dense strategy bonanza, especially as things kicked off with a literal history lesson.

But after watching and absorbing one of the game's early missions, I can genuinely say that I'd be confident enough to give it a go when it comes out. Even perhaps, confident enough to say that I'd genuinely enjoy it quite a bit as a total newbie.

What makes these particular men in Men Of War 2 so special? Well, it's the fully-fledged sequel to the first Men Of War, which came out in 2009 and the original creators Best Way are back on development duty (and it's just been announced that the release is delayed to next year, largely due to the Severodonetsk-based Best Way needing more time after development was stopped by the war in Ukraine). I can tell some of you want to chime in with, "I'll have you know that there were loads of sequels!", and I appreciate that. But these were, like, pseudo-sequels. Assault Squad 2, Men Of War: Vietnam, Men Of War Redtide; none of them had a "2" on the end, which is the magic number as far as this preview is concerned. With my slightly aggressive history lesson over, we can move on to lots of clicking on tanks.

The hands-off gameplay dropped us in an early mission which saw one large group of men versus another large group of men (I don't remember the nations, forgive me, but it's WWII-based, so that gives you an idea). The mission was a multi-step process of advancing into enemy territory, fending off sudden tank-waves, and then ultimately overwhelming the opposition. The demoists had popped the difficulty on easy to keep things watchable and explainable, but I'm told there are plenty of difficulty options for those looking to heap on the pressure.


And if you're new, the campaign won't just parachute you into war without any warmup at all. Men Of War 2 has a bunch of intro sequences that'll get you up to speed with the game's real-time wrangling. I didn't get to see these missions in action, but I'm hopeful they're a dummy's introduction to the series' returning features the "Front Line" and "Direct Control", as well as, like, the UI itself, which holds lots of little complexities.

Yet, as the demoists explained things, I understood that the frontline was determined by your ground troops, which disperse a fog of war depending on if they can push back the enemy forces or not. That line could wobble or lean heavily into one portion of the battlefield if you'd made inroads in only some small spots, but not others. As our little dudes gained ground in the demo, it struck me that I was invested in their livelihoods.

The ability to directly control any of your forces helped with immersion, too. At the click of a button you can to zoom in on any unit and control them from a view that's not first-person, but more of a close-up third-person perspective. For instance, you can control the trajectory of a mortar strike, man a light machine gun, then follow it up with a bit of a drive about in a tank. The demoists were keen to point out that it doesn't suddenly transform you into a one-man army, as you're still subject to the game's authenticity. Firing mortars isn't a simple point and click, but a lining up of crosshairs and timing things right in a mini-game-esque sequence. Tanks aren't indestructible, and you can't rattle off infinite ammunition like you're some Call Of Duty super-soldier.


And the vulnerability of your units creates some fantastic stories. You become invested in the little dude who rides around on his horse storming opponents with a bit too much enthusiasm. That squad nestled in the bushes? Yep, they're on a mission to resupply a tank with shells; they'd better not die. Plus the level of detail you're able to dig into is – I'm not even exaggerating – kind of astonishing. It feels like you'll forever discover little nuggets of extra info on anything and everything, including strategies or units or the battlefield itself.

One example of the game's attention to detail lay in the tanks, which are vulnerable powerhouses all composed of parts that need maintaining: hull, motor, tracks, big shooty barrel. Destroy a tank's tracks and it won't be able to move, which means you might be able to ambush it with a bunch of units and butcher the poor driver. Maybe you could commandeer it too, if you had an engineer who could repair it. Where lots of stats and addendums might be needless complications in other RTS and RTT games, Men Of War 2 turns them into endless opportunities that are actually comprehensible for newbies like me.


Genuinely, the more I saw of the game, the more it felt like a gradual unrolling of The Scroll Of Possibility. The demoists faced the might of the tanks head-on, taking control of a massive one and blasting them to smithereens. But they could've destroyed the bridges, rendering the tanks unable to cross the river before mortaring them from a distance. They could've dug trenches to block the amoured advance, or tucked units away in houses to spring a trap. Even better, the entire campaign is playable in co-op, which seems like a great way to learn the game's intricacies with a mate in tow and discover even more angles of attack.

So, as a total strategy baby I was taken by Men Of War 2. It's an RTS with a lot of history and serious complexity, but it's helped by systems that don't require you to dig too deeply if you don't want to. Opportunities abound for those who want to keep things simple or for veterans who relish micro-manage every little thing. It's definitely shaping up to be a good time and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I may even give it a proper whirl.

 

[Bigg Boss]

This is looking like a buy unless they do something horrible.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.pcgamer.com/men-of-war-...heroes-with-the-tactical-nuance-of-commandos/

Men of War 2 aims to balance the spectacle of Company of Heroes with the tactical nuance of Commandos​

Best Way's sequel is shaping up to be an impressive WW2 RTS.

It's summer 1941, and Operation Barbarossa rolls its way east. The Wehrmacht is pouring into Soviet-occupied territory, and I've been given the task of holding the Germans back. Which is fine, great, peachy even. There's just one small problem: I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

The opening mission for Men of War 2's preview demo—one of three available—has dumped me into the thick of an entrenched battle between the Soviets and the Nazis, across a wide, flat frontline crisscrossed with trenches and sprinkled with pockets of both friendly and enemy forces. Taken aback by the scale of the battle, I cautiously move my soldiers to man a couple of nearby mortars, and use them to drive the Germans out of their hidey holes.

"Good," says Men of War 2. "Now take these artillery guns and hold off the main offensive."

Main offensive? Oh, shit.

Across the frontline, a thunderhead of German armour rumbles into view—dozens of tanks accompanied by dozens more soldiers. I frantically manoeuvre the artillery—some of which are drawn by horses, by the way—into even-ish positions across my line, then decouple them from their transports. Immediately, they begin raining hell on the German armour, turning tanks into smouldering husks and scattering ragged bodies from obliterated half-tracks.

I'm flying entirely by the seat of my pants, but a glance at the minimap tells me that the German armour is pushing deep into my right flank. I move one of the guns from the centre to stop this rapidly growing salient, and a well-placed shell instantly halts an entire column of armour behind a freshly wrecked tank. At this point, the tide of the battle turns, and it isn't long before the Germans are in full retreat. I'm about to sit back and bask in the glory of my (very fortunate) victory, but then the commander tells me to take a bunch of tanks and destroy the bridges that the Germans have just fled across.

Shock and awe​

Men of War 2's opening demo mission showed me two things. First, Best Way's strategy sequel is no slouch in the fireworks department. The battle I just fumbled my way to victory in represents one of the most impressive spectacles I've seen in any strategy game. From the way-tracer fire from rifles and machine guns kicks up dirt at the feet of enemy soldiers, to the way shells thud into enemy armour and burst buildings, sending splinters and rubble flying. When its combat engine is in high-gear, Men of War 2 is dramatic, cacophonous, and exhilarating.

Second, and this may seem counterintuitive, but Men of War 2 is shaping up to be surprisingly accessible. While my introduction to the game was rather fraught, most of my comprehension problems came down to a lack of proper tutoring. Don't get me wrong, there's a still a lot of depth to grapple with—this is a game that lets you take control of both individual soldiers and entire armies. But what I needed to do was always clear, while how to do it was always easier to fathom than I anticipated.

Take the frontline mechanic, which is one of Men of War 2's big new features. The frontline is a demarcation of territory that dynamically adjusts based on the position of infantry units. In game terms, your frontline affects factors like where you can call in reinforcements, or your ability to build defences like trenches and fortifications. But it also provides an at-a-glance overview of a battle, letting you see where you need to shore up your defences, and where your opponent might be vulnerable to attack. Moreover, while each individual unit can perform a wide range of different actions, from throwing items like grenades and knives right down to switching the fire mode on their weapons, the UI for all this is fairly pared-back and straightforward, meaning it doesn't take too long to figure out the basic functionality of units.

Balance the scales​

Yet it's important to stress that, while Men of War 2 can play effectively at this larger scale, it isn't specifically about that. It aims to offer similar tactical chewiness at a smaller scale too. The demo's second mission whisks players away from the Eastern front to the hedgerows of Normandy, where you're given command over a trio of Sherman tanks and tasked with escorting a convoy through German-occupied territory. It's a more stringent exercise in resource management, and also highlights the depth of the game's vehicle simulation. In typical fashion, your tanks are strong at the front but vulnerable at the rear, but taking hits from tank shells or panzerfausts can also wreck your tracks, disable your gun, and even kill off specific members of the tank crew, affecting its function.

This mission also provides a fine opportunity to test out Men of War 2's Direct Control system, which lets you personally assume agency over a specific unit. I order two of the Shermans to assault a German checkpoint, while jumping into the driver's seat of the third. When an armoured German relief unit appears on the flanks, I'm able to draw the fire of the enemy tanks and direct my shells into their flanks, while the other two Shermans safely pummel them from a distance. While it's hard to judge how useful direct control will be when there's a larger number of units to manage, it's useful for getting the upper hand in skirmishes or positioning units exactly where you want them to be.

The third mission zooms in further still, putting you in control of a single squad of US paratroopers who must seize control of a nearby German communications station. They're massively outgunned, however, so their first task is to steal an armoured car patrolling the nearby forest. My first attempt at this mission is a slow stumble toward failure. I heedlessly attack the patrolling car, hoping the woods will serve as cover. But trees aren't the best protection against heavy machine gun fire, and not only do I lose two of my five squaddies, a rogue grenade thrown by a surviving paratrooper blows the car up. I manage to nab a half-track parked further up the road, but this proves insufficient to push the Germans out of their entrenched position at the station, and I end up losing the mission.

Duck and cover​

For my second attempt, I'm more cautious, using my squad's ability to build fortifications to erect a small wall of sandbags by the road. This provides ample cover from which to take out the crew of the armoured car. I then use the car to eliminate the crew of the half-track as well, meaning I have two armoured vehicles to assault the communications station with. I take the station with ease, suffering zero casualties.

Together, the three missions highlight the flexibility at the heart of Men of War's 2 systems, how your low-level decisions can snowball into a scenario that makes or breaks your entire mission strategy. The effect of your choices is always visible. That it is visible in such explosive style is a welcome bonus.

What's important now is that Best Way ensures that the onboarding helps players grapple with the game's depth. While I muddled through the scenarios to a reasonable degree, it wasn't without some frustration. Managing infantry is particularly tricky—not because they're especially complex to command, but because they are so incredibly vulnerable, and a single misplaced move can see half your forces shredded by an MG42 or blown into the stratosphere by an 88.

Players need to be equipped not just with tooltips and basic instruction, but proper tutorials that provide detailed tactical overviews, like how to approach a fixed gun emplacement with an infantry squad. But if the Ukrainian studio can make Men of War 2 sufficiently easy to learn, I can see myself spending many hours mastering it.

 

[Infinitron]

The second Dev Diary of Men of War II takes you behind the scenes of the highly anticipated sequel - learn more about some of the exciting gameplay, tech, and other innovations that players can expect in the highly-anticipated RTS follow-up.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Infinitron]

 

[adddeed]

Love the series (peaked with Faces of War i think), but they've been making the same game (with the same engine) since 2004. Really have no interested in this.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

That wasn't much.

 

[Alienman]

I have a feeling this will be DOA.

 

[cpmartins]

You should play Soldiers Heroes of WWII and Faces of War.
Campaign missions are a lot of fun. Faces of war has all kinds.

The most fun I ever had in coop. Nothing beats trying to cook a nade, then getting shot and dropping the damn thing on your feet killing your entire squad.
Good times.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Still didn't touch these games. Only briefly played first game (Soldiers) and standalone addon Outfront - Behind Enemy Lines.

Both Steam and Epic logo in the video?
Seems fishy...

 

[bobocrunch]

hope they take a note from gates of hell and add a conquest mode, makes the singleplayer a lot more fun when theres a strategic layer to setting up for the battle and minimizing losses

 

[Alienman]

hope they take a note from gates of hell and add a conquest mode, makes the singleplayer a lot more fun when theres a strategic layer to setting up for the battle and minimizing losses

That has been my long last dream, but all the Men of War games so far has been the same. Kinda incredible when you think about it.

 

[Victor1234]

It helped that some of the Gates of Hell devs were former modders from the MOW Dynamic Campaign Generator mod. What is included in GoH is much less advanced than the mod was, I think because they don't have enough maps yet to make it work on GoH. That strategy layer even had an auto-resolve ability, specific bonuses for terrains and unit types, supply lines, commando missions, etc.

In GoH you just have a linear campaign where the only real choice is whether to go for higher risk higher reward mission or easier ones. If you messed up the (albeit simple checker board) strategy in DCG, you had to fight the next battle with no fuel or ammo resupply, or if things went really bad, your allied units could get cut off and surrender, leaving you to face the entire enemy force alone, with terrible odds against you in the tactical battles.

 

[Victor1234]

To get back to the main topic, I hope the game is successful but the devs have a bad record. Call to Arms was their latest and bombed. Gates of Hell was third party devs using the CtA engine. Great but split the community evenly between MoW:AS2 and GoH instead of winning new players.

When MoW2 comes out it'll have to fight for share with those 2 plus Company of Heroes 3. To make it work they need to take the series forward with a big leap, which they've never been able to do in over 10 years. The only real leap was when they let third party devs into the engine to make Assault Squad.

Even though everyone moved on to GoH and Assault Squad 2, do yourselves a favor and run MoW: Assault Squad with the DCG mod. They also did mods for AS2 and the original MOW but those versions have many problems. I can't think of any better WW2 singleplayer RTS experience. It's complicated to install and sometimes the maps bug out on loading so you need to backup every mission but it's worth it.

I've only ever finished one full campaign, running a UK unit from Battle of France in 1940 to end of Korea in 1953 but it was one of my funnest gaming experiences ever. I'm doing a USSR unit starting in 1938 in Mongolia fighting the Japanese, that I hope to run through to the hypothetical Berlin Blockade War campaign in 1948 and a German one that's at the Battle of Greece 1940 right now.

Aside from the fun and variety, I think you really get a sense of the back and forth technology pull even during the war because the equipment side is really well done right down to availability of SMGs and radios. I haven't seen AT infantry go through that arc of being super useful (AT rifles) to cannon fodder to super useful again (PIAT, Bazooka, Panzerfaust, etc) in any other RTS game.

 

[L'ennui]

Just bought Assault Squad from GOG for like 4 $ and installed this Dynamic Campaign Generator mod. Super cool stuff, fighting as Soviets against the Japanese for now. Runs much better than Call to Arms/Gates of Hell on my venerable laptop.

 

[Victor1234]

Just bought Assault Squad from GOG for like 4 $ and installed this Dynamic Campaign Generator mod. Super cool stuff, fighting as Soviets against the Japanese for now. Runs much better than Call to Arms/Gates of Hell on my venerable laptop.

Glad to hear! Yeah, it's very well done. Good choice, USSR and Germany probably got the most attention as factions in terms of unique units and loadouts.

Meanwhile, I'm not very optimistic about the future of the franchise or Men of War 2. The parent company also does the IL-2 series of WW2 flight sims and they recently got rid of what seems like the only competent guy on the team. He did an exit interview that shows the internal situation to be...chaotic.

https://stormbirds.blog/2022/12/22/...9dwQ-GVCpMmeJj3Ez7ViShIX-RBajilUmemvppaGgmICE

Basically, 1C Company and its subsidiaries went through some changes and half the company in eastern Europe was sold to Tencent and then they invested in other parts. Although I was initially promised nothing would change with regards to IL-2 development, I knew it would and it eventually did. Three events would happen that affected my job. First, a high-level executive left 1CGS who was basically an ally. Second, Albert Zhiltcov was promoted to CEO of the new company. And lastly, the God-awful Russian invasion of Ukraine occurred that turned everything to crap.

Then again, maybe the guy is not as competent as I thought at first....

Are you planning on making a new product?

At the moment I’m making a mobile arcade game of all things. LOL

 

[Infinitron]

 

[tritosine2k]

...

Are you planning on making a new product?

At the moment I’m making a mobile arcade game of all things. LOL

They missed the mobile gravy train sooooo bad. D2 resurrected is proof you can take old 2.5d and 3d engines as backdrop and add custom graphics that just happens to fall in place. Instead they never grew out of the bloom and post process slime shit.

Mobile with 2d and 800x800m maps would be waaaay better than 250x250 with peer 2 peer mp or the other 3d things they tried. You can't have meaningful strategic layer with maps 250m across that has just obvious spawn locations.

Too bad. The part damage physics, weather effects (they had smoke clouds advected by wind ffs) still hold up, even some popamole aspects when tank crew used the hatch occasionally and that also needed undermanned tank "hack". Failed to capitalize afaict the whole good stuff was one man's work and they try to retrofit ever since showw:2. Too bad noone told them to fuck off with free camera and post process slime.