Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Incline MMO devs get fired the most.

Kane

I have many names
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
22,283
Location
Drug addicted, mentally ill gays HQ
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Tan Densdale from Twisted Pixel has nothing better to do than looking at other people, specifically where and why they were fired.

s7cTtilW2elACrtttfRe2NZ-KRkXtN4b-uzuRWSzSCh8O75Er5QgY6BsgiCENKxL9I3sC3f3qkcyM3meOiknN6sZ1SVEcdhLVfHHo4g5YSCyqTvjBwdyzEgY


The result of his study:

"Looking at the the raw number of people affected, MMO teams laid off more developers than console teams," Teasdale argues. He notes that 38% of video game industry layoffs hit MMO studios, although only 26% of MMO studios did any firing. Layoffs in Boston and Austin, including the closure of 38 Studios, accounted for a third of all industry layoffs, which could look good or bad depending on the total number of studios in those two cities relative to the rest of the industry (info hard to come by and not included in the study).

One upshot of the report was that MMO studios tended to lay off fewer people when firings happened in comparison to social, mobile, and console studios. "While this probably isn't a surprise, it's a clear indication that it's way harder to survive as a social or MMO developer than a console developer," he concludes. However, the analysis does not break down the types of employees laid off, such as designers vs. support, community, and temporary contractors, roles common in the MMO industry.

Teasdale readily admits his work has some limitations. "We can't normalize the data to show how much console gaming shrank as a percentage compared to other segments, since we don't know have a breakdown of 'total console developers' or 'total MMO developers'," he writes. "There were more console closures, but there are more console studios to start off with." He was also forced to define studios by their primary focus, meaning that a hypothetical 60% MMO/40% PC studio that laid off its PC workforce was likely counted among MMO layoffs.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/na
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
I thought this was some great conspiracy to bring Master of Orion down. You had me scared there for a second Raw.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
18,754
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Massively Master of Orion Online, f2p but with microtransactions to make the turns calculate faster.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
It's not like we are getting next MOO MHC.
I was thinking more along the lines of people who worked on MOO were fired more over their careers than the average video game developer.
 

Terpsichore

Arcane
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
1,789
Location
why
Trying to implement mechanics that are bound to fail while attempting to appeal to everybody and when it all crumbles down, blaming it on developers that only follow your retarded agenda.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
2,815
Location
Third Reich from the Sun
Can't say that I'm very surprised, well apart from the title which lead me to believe that the people who worked on MOO get fired more on average. There seems to be a great deal of companies that seek to capitalize on the success of world of warcraft mainly by creating similar games but with X feature! X is so amazing you should play our exactly the same game but with x! No wonder people are not willing to switch games in large enough numbers to the different game since is just the same old with a new paint job. After all why would they abandon their characters and all they've done just to start over from the beginning in basically the same game? The mmo genre has absolutely enormous potential with highly player driven content and game play, to bad that everything is the same grind grind grind and go kill computer controlled monsters idiocy, with the rare few different ones like EVE being few and far between.

In the end almost everything ends up being this

RspQ2Tx.png
 

SuicideBunny

(ノ ゜Д゜)ノ ︵ ┻━┻
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
8,943
Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Torment: Tides of Numenera
mmo devs also deserve it the most, so.... not sure what you are saying here.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,721
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
Thread title is misleading, raw needs to learn the difference between getting fired and being laid off, he's confirmed as being one of "them".
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,721
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
That kind of thinking contributes to the decline, at least in terms of MMO quality (to which many will reply that that which cannot incline can never decline).

- Many prospective young programmers see this kind of article and conclude (through similar ignorance) that the MMO industry must be a black hole because people get fired from it all the time

- Many prospective young programmers go in a different direction, like mobile shit games or consoletardware

- MMO's focus more on microtransactions and empty content in an effort to make up for lack of talent thus lack of quality thus lack of subscriptions

Conclusion: raw is responsible for the crappy state of the MMORPG industry.
 

Kane

I have many names
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
22,283
Location
Drug addicted, mentally ill gays HQ
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
- Many prospective young programmers see this kind of article and conclude (through similar ignorance) that the MMO industry must be a black hole because people get fired from it all the time

Actually Crispy, if those prospective young programmers are as prospective as you claim them to be, they would have read the article in full and would have noted that the employment situation in the mobile and console market is just as shit and they would have realized that the most stable job are to be found at classic, trusted & true, codex approved PC developers. :smug:
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,313
It's good to see that even though MMOs are 99% a PC phenomena that even Professional Gaming Journalists are sensible enough to distinguish between them.

That said, looking at absolute numbers is a farce, what matters is the relative rates of being fired.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Sorry, but pretty much all the numbers in this thing, even from a cursory look, are very partial - so partial as to be worthless for any general conclusions.

The headcount is the least accurate of the lot, since unless all sectors have exactly the same # of employees it means nothing. MMO devs may get fired the most in absolute numbers, but we have no information on proportions. In other words, the information as presented in the OP is worthless. Of course, the other data presented in that link is also partial, but:

While more developers were laid off from MMO studios, more console studios had layoff events. On average, console developers also laid off larger chunks of their teams in those events.

Given MMO teams are probably larger than others, it's plausible to suggest that we are seeing actually a higher proportion & greater frequency of bloodletting in console games, but MMO teams simply have more people. Though that can't be confirmed with the data given.

If you only look at studios that closed their doors in 2012, console developers are also in the top slot:

As the report itself admits, this data is also largely worthless because we dont' have a total count of console developers or MMO developers. So saying 50% of all closed studios were console doesn't mean much.

If you take the studios that scored above a Metacritic 80 but still encountered layoffs, over half of them are MMOs.

Given the small number of studios which get over 80 anyway, and that the number of 80+ that laid off are a total of 10, once again you can't really draw much from this. 6 out of 10 were MMOs - in one year. Meh. The report suggests that MMO/Social studios find it harder to prevent layoffs when making highly rated games, but there's insufficient evidence to actually say that.

In conclusion, we've learnt very little. Kudos to the guy who made the report, since some numbers are better than no numbers and he put in the work to get these, but they're far, far from being enough to say whether MMOs are being hit the most.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
I don't really see how this is surprising.

MMOs have a massive investment cost because you are basically making 5 games at once - they have to be bigger than just about any other type of game, and even if you can take shortcuts here and there due to the standards of the genre, it's still a fuckton of work to get one made. Once an MMO is out however, you switch over to maintenance mode and instead of reassigning your massive team to make another MMO, instead you need to focus on hiring support staff and doing incremental content updates and patches (cash items, bug fixes, balance tweaks). Since you don't know an MMO is going to do well until its initial sales come in, there's no point keeping 100 extra employees around doing nothing while you wait and see if an expansion is viable.
 

abija

Prophet
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
2,916
You can't discuss how surprising it is when you don't even know if it's true. As someone pointed out a couple of posts ago you need fired devs / total devs in each segment not what is shown in that piechart (which would be better used as "one of these is not like the other" card).
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
The chart is stupid. They have categories for PC, console, and MMO... But,a ren't MMOs usually onN PC with some on console? That's fukkin' whack and therefore the chart can't be taken seriously.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
The chart is stupid. They have categories for PC, console, and MMO... But,a ren't MMOs usually onN PC with some on console? That's fukkin' whack and therefore the chart can't be taken seriously.
p0AqDam.gif
Can someone explain the pink thing? I'm always behind on the latest memes.. :?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom