Interview Monster Hunting In The Witcher 3: Returning to the Roots of the Witcher Concept

[Cool name]

Sorry, let me highlight my post for you:

The alternative is either a set of contextual fighting animations and moves for your character that are only possible in that fight (which would be a ridicuilous thing to implement for a one off setpiece)...

So where are we getting the budget and development pipeline for all these animations for that are purely contextual to bossfights and wouldn't be used in the rest of the game?

If memory does not fail me most of the animations are not exclusive to the Colossi. They are also used for plataforming around.

In any case how about they take the budget from what they did spend on all those customized animations and cinematics they did use for QTEs? Oh, shi...!

Also, this is now apparently the Playstation 2 Codex? The Codex troll is very appropriate there obviously. As is Crooked Bee brofisting that.

I could not care less about the plataform a game is released on. You did mention big monsters. SoC has the biggest ones. It does not need QTEs.

Edit: Also, the Kayran fight in the Witcher 2 does the same thing as those fights, with your character trying to hold onto a moving limb (only it does so with a QTEs).

The difference is that in SoC it is actual gameplay. As in, you know... Interactive and pro-active? There are many ways to kill the Colossi. You do pretty much make your own way through them, improvise when shit does not go your way, etc. The game does allow even for some pretty creative tactics. It is not a cinematic with 'press X not to die' and 'press X to be awesome.'

Edit: The famous 'sword jump' against the third one. More awesome than most QTEs, only one way to reach the top, and not forced down your throat because the developers thought it was AWESOME. Wander > Geralt, even if he runs like a girl.

Spoiler

 

[Indranys]

Meh another PR trash.
Less talking and more proving CDPR.
I really have a bad feeling about Witcher 3.
Almost as bad as Hitman Absolution one.

Square Enix: "Guys you love Hitman games?? I'll give you new Hitman game which is not Hitman game anymore instead! "
CDPR : "Guys you like Skyrim and Witcher?? Ride the horse to open tundra! Fetch Flowers and shits! Kill 10 trolls! Look that beautiful marker on your map!
And pound some girls in Witcher 3!"

 

[ironyuri]

Edit: Also, the Kayran fight in the Witcher 2 does the same thing as those fights, with your character trying to hold onto a moving limb (only it does so with a QTEs).

The difference is that in SoC it is actual gameplay. There are many ways to kill the Colossi. You do pretty much make your own way through them. The game does allow even for some pretty creative tactics. It is not a cinematic with 'press X not to die' and 'press X to be awesome.'

Believe it or not, BC, a QTE is still actual gameplay. If it means interacting with the game's system in any way, that is a gameplay mechanic, even if it is fairly simplistic.

There are two ways to kill the kayran (several depending on strategy), but two primary ones:

You (use the the trap if you want at the beginning of the fight), attack the orange glowing spots on the tentacles until they are destroyed, rinse and repeat until all tentacles are destroyed while avoiding the kayran's attacks.

You destroy the kayran's tentacles until roughly 50% of them are destroyed, then climb the pillar at the left of the screen to launch a jumping attack into its head (I can't remember if this is managed by a QTE or not).

You posted those Colossus videos with no context whatsoever, and having not played them, what else am I to assume about them? I would have argued that if the animations involved in those fights were restricted to those instances and nowhere else, then it is a problem, but if the game itself involves climbing and platforming mechanics, then it is actually novel to use those mechanics as a part of the boss-fight itself, thus turning combat into a hybrid platforming-fighting system.

The Witcher (&2) were primarily hack and slash games, so to avoid the uncanny valley effect of running up to a twenty foot tall boss monster while you hack and slash at its shins/undercarriage, the devs used QTEs to punctuate elaborate animated sequences, and I see nothing wrong with that. If the game had platforming mechanics, then I would question it if they didn't implement climbing onto the kayran in some way. If they implemented one-off climbing mechanics during the kayran battle I would question why I couldn't climb trees, walls, over fences, up buildings in the rest of the game.

The basic point being: systems need to be consistent. QTEs expedite the problems of hack&slash focused systems when they encounter large-scale boss fights. They are not sophisticated solutions, but one solution. I'd much rather a couple quick and dirty QTEs than a twenty minute boss fight where I hack and slash the legs of an HP bloated monster and wait for it to fall spraying blood out of its head as if I hadn't only been trimming its toe nails.

 

[Infinitron]

Or you can just not have such boss fights at all...which is apparently what they're going to do?

 

[Metro]

Boss 'encounters' work better in games like this -- rather than worry about designing some individual monster/person that is super overpowered you are free to make a scenario with a lot of moving parts.

 

[Mrowak]

Is it a shitty minigame?

In AC III, whenever you had to track down an animal (a "monster") to kill it, the game would have you "investigate" a middle-sized area, marked as a green circle on your minimap, for "clues" as to the monster's whereabouts. You didn't really have to investigate anything in any meaningful way though. You just had to find a "clue" (conveniently marked with a magnifying glass icon) and the game would then direct you, via the minimap/quest marker, to the next "investigation" area where you had to repeat the same "exciting" procedure - and so on. Eventually it would lead you to the cave/bush/whatever where the monster was hiding.

If Witcher 3 goes for quantity over quality ("20% more filler quests than in Skyrim!"), I fully expect these monster investigation quests to be similarly meaningful and exciting.

Yeah I am afraid Assassin's Creed 3 would give them "ideas". When I heard "investigation" I immediately thought about the main quest from TW1 Act2, which despite its clunkiness was quite captivating, had a number of outcomes and really captured the detective "feel". But then I thought how difficult it would be to prepare something along those lines for the whole continent. In the end I think it will be some gimmick, like you said, or simply getting the right book (which you will be able to conveniently buy from the merchant in the village) and reading about the monster. Meh.

That said I think my and a few other people's whining giving them constructive criticism about TW2 on their forums caused them to at least acknowledge some of the faults the community has been divided over (Kayran suddenly became something they are pretty ashamed of, they are going to scrap rolling, "signs" are going to have different effects as you improve them, there are going to be different sword-strikes, etc.). There is hope.

 

[SuicideBunny]

I hate this open world approach. I've yet to see an open world game that delivered in story plot memorable characters.

all the main fallouts are open world games.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I hate this open world approach. I've yet to see an open world game that delivered in story plot memorable characters.

all the main fallouts are open world games.

That's a bit misleading. They are open world games in the sense that you can go anywhere and discover things along the way. But they're not open world the same way as TES or Gothic, where there's one continuous world to traverse. Ultimately Fallout1&2 are composed of a bunch of discrete locations separated by empty space and random encounters - not unlike BG2 for example.

 

[odrzut]

Searching for the books about monsters/curses, etc should be much more important than in TW2. And books should be as expansive as in TW1, or even more. And reading a book should require meditation for the whole night, so Geralt can't just buy every book from the book store, read them on the spot, and sell them back. That way players would need to ask wizards/other witchers/priests for hints about which books to read.

Properly done investigation quest require huge amount of dialogs, which means huge amount of voice overs, which is expansive. So they need a way to cut the costs somehow. Even changing parts of each quests from spoken (asking people nearby) to written (writing letters to people asking for hints in which books to search info about monster that does X and Y) would help. Less work for developers per quest == more and better quests.

So I hope it will feel a little like "Call of Cthulhu" pen&paper RPG - searching for the title of the book you need is half of the quest. And that may require killing some other regular monster for some old librarian.

 

[SuicideBunny]

That's a bit misleading. They are open world games in the sense that you can go anywhere and discover things along the way. But they're not open world the same way as TES or Gothic, where there's one continuous world to traverse. Ultimately Fallout1&2 are composed of a bunch of discrete locations separated by empty space and random encounters - not unlike BG2 for example.

open world and continuous world are two separate things.

 

[Darkforge]

I kind of liked the investigation into the witch burning you do in Witcher 2, and the ritual and such. hopefully they expand on this sort of thing. I liked the sequel but the combat was pretty awful in retrospec with that god damned super roll

 

[RK47]

Or you can just not have such boss fights at all...which is apparently what they're going to do?

Yuri fighting the good fight, but Infinitron picked the right dialogue options as usual. Both BROs still.

 

[RK47]

I kind of liked the investigation into the witch burning you do in Witcher 2, and the ritual and such. hopefully they expand on this sort of thing. I liked the sequel but the combat was pretty awful in retrospec with that god damned super roll

Hahah I remember that too, too bad the actual ritual sucked dick when put in practice.
All that talent points you spent can be rendered irrelevant when you're inside the ritual itself.

 

[Carrion]

TW2's investigation quests weren't that good, except maybe the short one they added in the Enhanced Edition involving the bastard kids, and even that was really just a nice little puzzle. Basically you just got a list of things to do and that was it. No chance of failure, no real decisions to make, not really that much investigation to speak of either. Go to A, talk to B, find C. They were still fun quests, but Geralt pretty much solved them for the player right away. TW1's Act II was great, though, and if they include at least some elements of that (chance of failure, multiple outcomes, solutions that cannot be found in the journal), I'll be very happy.

 

[mondblut]

Or you can just not have such boss fights at all...which is apparently what they're going to do?

Exactly. If having a 20 feet high boss mandates QTEs, circus hopping and other retarded crap, how about we stick with 6 feet high bosses?

 

[Azrael the cat]

Have to say - this might be the storyfag in me, but I've only ever liked boss fights that involve taking on other characters in the gameworld who you have previously interacted with (preferably extensively). Deus Ex did this perfectly with Navarre/Hermann/Simons (Page was a let down precisely because you had so little interaction with him). Otherwise give me opposing parties with similar range of abilities and decent AI. I've always preferred that shit to 'oh noes a really big set of hp!'

 

[Cyberarmy]

Or you can just not have such boss fights at all...which is apparently what they're going to do?

Exactly. If having a 20 feet high boss mandates QTEs, circus hopping and other retarded crap, how about we stick with 6 feet high bosses?

I think Dragons Dogma did this well with its grabbing mechanic but it wont suit Witcher considering we mostly use two handed swords.

 

[mondblut]

I think Dragons Dogma did this well with its grabbing mechanic but it wont suit Witcher considering we mostly use two handed swords.

I don't know and largerly don't care wtf "dragons dogma" is, but I am pretty certain I want no "grabbing mechanic" in the games I play.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I don't know and largerly don't care wtf "dragons dogma" is, but I am pretty certain I want no "grabbing mechanic" in the games I play.

You can manually climb bigger monsters to hit their weak spots(poking a cyclops in the eye) and you can hold/even carry smaller humonoid types. As long as your stamina allows.
It is a good mechaic after years of slaying giants by only hitting their toes/knees.

 

[Shadenuat]

These weak points, like in Agassi's video, are placed very conveniently. If I'd make a monstrous golem towering houses, I would probably not design it so a single moderately dexterous human can stab it in three weak joints and kill it.
Wounds that a dagger or small sword would do to a giant would be close to human stabbing himself with a toothpick. We don't die after being stung by bees or insects, unless there are ton of bites or poison involved.
Giant creatures could be killed with whole parties, magic, traps or poisons. Like pygmy hunting large animals just poisoning them or cutting legs and waiting 'em to bleed out.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Yeah, i always find that funny, creating such a powerfull golem with on/off buttons everywhere on it screaming "Stab me! Shoot Me!"

For once i would like to hunt a powerfull demon with rune preparation and many traps/tricks. Infınty Engine games gave me a little of that feeling with blessing/casting spells and laying traps/skulls before combat.

 

[Cool name]

These weak points, like in Agassi's video, are placed very conveniently. If I'd make a monstrous golem towering houses, I would probably not design it so a single moderately dexterous human can stab it in three weak joints and kill it.
Wounds that a dagger or small sword would do to a giant would be close to human stabbing himself with a toothpick. We don't die after being stung by bees or insects, unless there are ton of bites or poison involved.
Giant creatures could be killed with whole parties, magic, traps or poisons. Like pygmy hunting large animals just poisoning them or cutting legs and waiting 'em to bleed out.

The sword is magical. No, really. It is.

"The story of Wander begins with him entering the forbidden land, traveling across the long bridge at its entrance on his horse, Agro. Prior to entering, he had stolen a magical sword, which is the only weapon capable of slaying the colossi of the forbidden land."

And it would go against the theme to have entire armies and parties and stuffies. Shadow is mostly about how far a guy is willing to go for love and how much he is willing to screw everyone else and lose his own soul to get what he wants. The Colossi...

Spoiler

... aren't war machines as much as they are kind of innocent bystanders who do chill out and mind their own business in the forbidden land until you get there and slaughter them all because Dormin did put a hit on their heads and you do get to write your own check.

In any case Shadow of the Colossus was the first game to ever attempt that. And the only one. Do cut them some slack. They went far beyond the call of duty. The fault is on everyone else who did decide QTEs where better because most players would not notice the difference, just did want to feel AWESOME, or was simply easier instead of building upon those foundations.

 

[Shadenuat]

The sword is magical. No, really. It is.

I suspected as much, that's why I made a more general point. Games use that mechanic now cause of rule of cool.

 

[tuluse]

The basic point being: systems need to be consistent. QTEs expedite the problems of hack&slash focused systems when they encounter large-scale boss fights. They are not sophisticated solutions, but one solution. I'd much rather a couple quick and dirty QTEs than a twenty minute boss fight where I hack and slash the legs of an HP bloated monster and wait for it to fall spraying blood out of its head as if I hadn't only been trimming its toe nails.

Yeah that's the point. There are better ways of doing it, and Shadow of the Colossus is one. QTEs are not fun.

 

[tuluse]

The sword is magical. No, really. It is.

I suspected as much, that's why I made a more general point. Games use that mechanic now cause of rule of cool.

If we're going to approach this realistically, you only have to get deep enough to sever an important artery. A sword that can kill a human can also kill an elephant.