More dialogue screens

[Vault Dweller]

A simpler alternative would be to have the line "A fellow loremaster? What a surprise!" from the PC, to which Feng responds with "Eh? What do you know about lore anyways?" Then the PC could go '[lore] You glance at a shield on the wall. "Well, I know that your shield there is a cheap copy of the original. Where'd you get that, Turania marketplace? Five gold, maybe?" '

Something like that.

Then again, tracking reputations does rule.

That's in the game. (See the char screen)

 

[wesleyclark]

Screen 2:

1. Kill the loremaster anyway, get to use the line from "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly", and get hunted pretty much like a dog until you die or get out of this town.
2. You get this line if you managed to meet the Lord and convince him to get rid of Feng. Then you can kill Feng without any consequences and get some bonus points with the assassins.

VD,

What would have happened had the assassin gotten the lord's approval to take Feng out, but as a big Eastwood fan chose 1? Would he still have been mob-bait?

 

[Vault Dweller]

No, the trigger is the Lord's permission (or lack thereof), not the line. The only difference is that the second line leads to a fork that includes a peaceful option. The first line doesn't.

 

[mathboy]

You said it would be different with longer speeches, in what way?

I'd suggest moving the line between NPC and PC speech down so it extends the bottom border of the picture and let the PC have his speech options in the big empty space below the picture all the way to the right border of the screen. And have the NPC speech where almost all is now.

 

[Jed]

Looks fantastic as is, VD. I like the serif font as well. I'd imagine it's more clear when it's not a screenshot. I wouldn't change much if anything from the current direction. When do we get a demo?

 

[Vault Dweller]

You said it would be different with longer speeches, in what way?

Just need more space for longer speeches, to fit them in.

I'd suggest moving the line between NPC and PC speech down so it extends the bottom border of the picture and let the PC have his speech options in the big empty space below the picture all the way to the right border of the screen. And have the NPC speech where almost all is now.

We've had something like that, but it didn't work very well for shorter conversations. It seemed unclear what you are replying to. It worked better without that picture, but a lot of people seemed to like it, so we'll have to figure something out. Or replace longer speeches with "bla-bla-bla... you are the chosen one...bla-bla-bla". That would definitely work.

Looks fantastic as is, VD.

Thanks, Jed.

I'd imagine it's more clear when it's not a screenshot.

A bit more clear. We'll replace the font with something that looks similar but Torque-friendly.

When do we get a demo?

When it's done, and considering the amount of work, it won't be anytime soon. Now that we've switched to 3D, there is a lot of stuff I want to do - animations, more characters, more details, etc. I want to do it right.

 

[Volourn]

Cool dialogue.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Holy fuck! It's a rare sighting of Volourn outside of the Site Feedback forum. How have you been, Volly?

 

[RGE]

He won't. An equal is a threat. One of his quests is getting rid of another loremaster. He would respect a person who may have a good understanding of lore though. If you prove that you are as good as him, you are as good as dead.

Eek! And yikes! And... I thought it was governments who liked to clamp down on information trading, while the scientists themselves don't mind sharing information in order to further their own studies. But I'm sure that crazy Feng got his rationale for murderin'.

It sounds as if the dialogue will be even more complex than I first thought. There's almost a puddle of liquid fear under my seat. :shock:

 

[Hazelnut]

You said it would be different with longer speeches, in what way?

Just need more space for longer speeches, to fit them in.

I'd suggest moving the line between NPC and PC speech down so it extends the bottom border of the picture and let the PC have his speech options in the big empty space below the picture all the way to the right border of the screen. And have the NPC speech where almost all is now.

We've had something like that, but it didn't work very well for shorter conversations. It seemed unclear what you are replying to. It worked better without that picture, but a lot of people seemed to like it, so we'll have to figure something out. Or replace longer speeches with "bla-bla-bla... you are the chosen one...bla-bla-bla". That would definitely work.

Regarding using the full width for the options, so you can get one option on each line, why not try putting the picture on the right rather than the left so that the speech txt and the options are left justified. And if that's not enough, try moving the speech txt down so the start line changes depending on the speech length rather than the end line.

Gotta keep the picture IMO.

Oh, and if you dare to cut down the long speeches to "bla-bla-bla... you are the chosen one...bla-bla-bla", I'll..., I'll..., well, I'll sulk!!

 

[Vault Dweller]

But I'm sure that crazy Feng got his rationale for murderin'.

He does. He got himself a nice position as a pet-loremaster of a local Lord, whose protection allows his to deal with locals as he sees fit, so he really likes to keep things the way they are, and murder is a small price to pay for a peace of mind.

It sounds as if the dialogue will be even more complex than I first thought. There's almost a puddle of liquid fear under my seat. :shock:

Yep, very complex. I wanted to give a good and interesting alternative to "kill your way through" approach, something more deeper than maxing out your persuasion skill and choosing the best line. Something tactical, where you really need to think whom you are going to talk to, and what you are going to say.

Regarding using the full width for the options, so you can get one option on each line, why not try putting the picture on the right rather than the left so that the speech txt and the options are left justified.

That actually sounds good. We'll try it, thanks.

 

[Atrokkus]

Yep, very complex. I wanted to give a good and interesting alternative to "kill your way through" approach, something more deeper than maxing out your persuasion skill and choosing the best line. Something tactical, where you really need to think whom you are going to talk to, and what you are going to say.

You can't even imagine how im glad to hear that.

(as a side note: the interview thing will be postponed a bit, cuz i have some pretty busy shit going on in personal life)

 

[Major_Blackhart]

VD, this sounds, as usual, very pleasing. I'll definitely be sure to recommend this to a few of my buds once it comes out.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I apologize for the thread digging but I just wanted to comment quickly on this.

The screens look very good. The dialogue options all seem to have a Falloutesque feel I've always liked. It's not surprising to see you're trying to follow this route in that regard, and I'm glad you're doing so. I only have one pet peeve, and that's how some options (or rather, their nature) is indicated to the player. Perhaps telling the player one option involves a skill check could be done in a way so that information is not used on the same line as the dialogue itself? Maybe you could make it so the background of a given answer has a slightly different hue that would correspond to a given skill; or you could make it so at the edge of the answer block, there would be a clickable area or icons which when clicked, dropped down and informed the player what kind of check the answer is using.

Or, remove the information that the answer uses a skill check entirely so it becomes cleaner.

Also, instead of asterisks, I think something like parenthesis could work better when giving the player a character option (as is the case of your dialogue option to show him the map). But since regular parenthesis may be used for regular dialogues, maybe you could use ["text"] or {"text"} instead - if you go with the suggestion, that is. Maybe even use italicized text for this particular kind of description.

Speaking of which, how do you feel about dividing the dialogue screen so as to show the NPC's image and dialogue on the upper part, and the PC's image and dialogue options on the lower part (I'm assuming Torque can handle multiple viewpoints for such a thing, but Im not sure)? I'm only asking this because there seems to be a large amount of space unused, though it can also be due to the dialogue being rather small in the examples.

Also, a scrolling option for dialogue might come in handy. That, or a dialogue recap option as seen in Fallout.

Looking good. I'd recommend this to my buddies if I had any.



Speaking of which, we should work on some game together in the future.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The screens look very good. The dialogue options all seem to have a Falloutesque feel I've always liked.

Thanks.

Perhaps telling the player one option involves a skill check could be done in a way so that information is not used on the same line as the dialogue itself?

Perhaps that should be an optional feature, as our dialogue database can easily turn the [] on and off.

Maybe you could make it so the background of a given answer has a slightly different hue that would correspond to a given skill

That worked well in BL, but BL had a handful of dialogue skills, while we use all the skills. That would be too many combinations to remember, not to mention that the dialogue window would look like a Christmas tree.

or you could make it so at the edge of the answer block, there would be a clickable area or icons which when clicked, dropped down and informed the player what kind of check the answer is using.

Something like ToEE rolls info? Sure, we can do that too, but how convinient would that be?

Also, instead of asterisks, I think something like parenthesis could work better when giving the player a character option (as is the case of your dialogue option to show him the map). But since regular parenthesis may be used for regular dialogues, maybe you could use ["text"] or {"text"} instead - if you go with the suggestion, that is. Maybe even use italicized text for this particular kind of description.

It seems to me that most people disliked the asterisks, so we'll have to replace them with something like italics. I thought that * would be a familiar concept to most players though.

Speaking of which, how do you feel about dividing the dialogue screen so as to show the NPC's image and dialogue on the upper part, and the PC's image and dialogue options on the lower part

Doesn't sound too bad to me. Most people seemed to like the current setup as that was a requested feature, but I'll play with the concept.

I'm only asking this because there seems to be a large amount of space unused, though it can also be due to the dialogue being rather small in the examples.

That's an average dialogue sample. Some NPCs have a lot to say, so the space is reserved for that occasion. I agree that the window design should be tweaked though.

Speaking of which, we should work on some game together in the future.

It's a date! :wink:

 

[Atrokkus]

What I really want to see in this game is a book-like style of writing, as in Torment. I mean, if you talk to a person, you not just read what he has to say, but also read his description, mimicks etc, because the graphic engine won't allow the player to see that for himself. Even Fallout did this, partially, by employing talking heads, but that's a somewhat limited approach, plus much more technically complicated.

 

[Vault Dweller]

That's in the journal. Each NPC has a page or two, where the description, your impressions of him/her, your dealings, etc is recorded. The info is based on your choices, obviously, and your stats. If you are smart enough to figure out that an NPC is full of shit that would be recorded; if your Per is high enough to notice something about his manner, that would be recorded. Etc.

I love me a good journal and this journal is very good even if I do say so myself.

 

[Atrokkus]

You never cease to impress me. Great stuff.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

That worked well in BL, but BL had a handful of dialogue skills, while we use all the skills. That would be too many combinations to remember, not to mention that the dialogue window would look like a Christmas tree.

Something like ToEE rolls info? Sure, we can do that too, but how convinient would that be?

I meant something like this. Part 1 shows the slightly tinted block over the text. At the end is the icon which when clicked would drop down the info regarding what kind of check was being made, seen in part 2. Of course, it should be retractable.

Number 3 is just a suggestion of a standard pop up using your game's interface to show players if any check is being made when they hover the mouse pointer over any given dialogue choice.

It's a date! :wink:

Cool beans. I'm toying around with some mech and some cyberpunk concepts (only slightly based off Battletech and Shadowrun to name a few sources - but without the freaking elves and magic), see what I can come up with. If we ever get there, I'd suspect those would be my prefered themes. I know I'll never develop any games but I still get a kick out of creating this stuff.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I meant something like this. Part 1 shows the slightly tinted block over the text. At the end is the icon which when clicked would drop down the info regarding what kind of check was being made, seen in part 2. Of course, it should be retractable.

That's what I thought. My point was that you have to click on the arrow every time to see the skillcheck, which isn't very convinient. Now, in ToEE case, the roll info was very specific, you didn't need to see it all the time, and there were 2 different levels of complexity one could access. All we have to show is the name of the skill that triggered the response. Not enough to justify all that clicking.

The idea was to let players know quickly what skills are being used, kinda reward him for bumping the lore or critical strike or whatever skill up, to show players that all skills affect dialogues (that's also important as many players would expect only traditional speech skills to have any influence). From that point of view [] do a fine job. Anything that forces players who want to know those things to click on something, hover the mouse, etc would complicate things unnecessarily. In my opinion, of course.

So, the best solution would be to give players an option to enable/disable []. Disagree?

Cool beans. I'm toying around with some mech and some cyberpunk concepts (only slightly based off Battletech and Shadowrun to name a few sources - but without the freaking elves and magic), see what I can come up with. If we ever get there, I'd suspect those would be my prefered themes. I know I'll never develop any games but I still get a kick out of creating this stuff.

That's how it starts. First you create stuff just for kicks, then you make a game to go with it. As for the themes, cyberpunk sounds fine with me. I'm more of a sci-fi guy, I just thought that a fantasy game would be easier to do for a first project.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

So, the best solution would be to give players an option to enable/disable []. Disagree?

No, I see your point. Sounds fine that way.

That's how it starts. First you create stuff just for kicks, then you make a game to go with it. As for the themes, cyberpunk sounds fine with me. I'm more of a sci-fi guy, I just thought that a fantasy game would be easier to do for a first project.

True, that. Hopefully the project will give you plently of insight for your future projects

 

[Atrokkus]

Hmm, one question about the journal "impressions" that you mentioned: what about things like "his cheeks flush" or "his hands were twitching" or something like that? I mean, the player should see that at the moment of speech, not after the dialog is over and he opens his journal. Or the journal is accessible from dialog-screen?

 

[Kraszu]

Or the journal is accessible from dialog-screen?

That would be strange too, very unatural.

 

[Atrokkus]

Like, PC taking notes while talking O_O

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hmm, one question about the journal "impressions" that you mentioned: what about things like "his cheeks flush" or "his hands were twitching" or something like that?

Nope, not at the moment. There is some minor stuff like *chuckles* (see the screens in this thread) to show the mood and reaction, but nothing like this stuff, for example:
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/avernu ... sation.jpg

I mean, the player should see that at the moment of speech, not after the dialog is over and he opens his journal. Or the journal is accessible from dialog-screen?

Nope, nothing is accessible when you are in the dialogue mode.