My Oblivion Review

[thras]

I got into Bethesda's games with Arena. I was a teenager back then, and thought the game was a lot of fun. I liked solving puzzles, I liked the combination of magic and swordplay, I liked being able to travel across a large and diverse area.

I bought Daggerfall when it came out. I played it for a while and hated it. First, there were more bugs than game. Second, the random dungeons were worse than godawful. They were all exactly the same, but jumbled up. The skill system was poorly thought out. It was like they had come up with the system independently of how it was supposed to play.

I then bought Morrowind when it came out. It had some interesting parts, but for the most part it was boring as hell. It didn't feel as adult and scary as Daggerfall. All of the dungeons were one or two room creations. The massive amount of walking just to get anywhere was incredibly boring -- there wasn't anything interesting for you to see, just lots of cliffracers. The skill system was again designed independently of how it would actually play. You aren't rewarded for trying new things, you're rewarded for doing the same damn thing a million times. Wonderful--if I were obsessive-compulsive. The artwork was dreary and uninspired. I couldn't stand looking at it for long. And for the pitiful size of the dungeons, there wasn't much to differentiate them from each other. Also, gameplay boiled down to killing things. No puzzles, no interesting spells (lots of boring spells), all the quests had one answer. Some things were interesting however, especially the mystery of the Dwemer. There was some depth to the game. (Not what I recalled from Daggerfall and Arena however. Shops didn't even close at night.)

Then Oblivion came along and I got it. The combat was better. Dungeons were better. (Still awfully limited, with three basic patterns and no real puzzles. It's horrible how little story depth there is to them. The closest I've come to feeling like I was in a real place was reading the inscriptions on the tombs when I picked up Uriel Septim's armor. So artificial.) The magic system was still boring. The skill system was still brain-damaged. The gameplay was still only about killing. The story and artwork were uninspired to say the least. The leveling system sucked the fun out of character progress. The developers nerfed enchanting and the only actual interesting spells from Morrowind (which didn't have a great magic system itself, just direct damage and damage over time spells -- boring -- but it did have levitation). I don't understand why developers were so concerned about making god-charcters impossible in a single-player game. I don't understand what levitation would have taken away from the game.

What I don't understand about Bethesda is the wasted opportunity at every turn. Their games are always 80% of the way to being interesting and fun. Why don't they go the extra step and make a masterpiece?

And why does everybody fawn over their games? I'd like to see how their marketing budget gets spent.

 

[Elwro]

I think the best way to describe Oblivion is "bland". Morrowind at least had some originality in it. Oblivion is so generic it hurts, while reminding the player every 5 minutes that he's a baby. There are some quite interesting things in there, but the majority of the game is bland and uninspired.

 

[Micmu]

"bland", "static", "unimmersive", "childish" and "arcady".

 

[whatusername]

"not-an-rpg"

 

[Twinfalls]

The thing that puzzles me is the arc of change from Morrowind. What had me looking forward to Oblivion and holding out some hope even towards its release, was the two expansion packs for Morrowind. With Tribunal and that other wolfy, snowy one, they seemed to be 'hitting their stride', or at least getting up off the floor. Both quest and world design were more interesting and atmospheric. What then happened?

 

[Micmu]

What then happened?

Fable's and Dungeon Siege's success.

 

[Texas Red]

Utterly lame, *too* simple and boring character system.

 

[thras]

I'm actually surprised at how many people talk about Morrowind like it was a great game. The only way it could seem that way is when compared to Oblivion. Morrowind had nearly all the faults of Oblivion, just not quite as pronounced. And it had lousy dungeons.

 

[Stalin]

IWhat I don't understand about Bethesda is the wasted opportunity at every turn. Their games are always 80% of the way to being interesting and fun. Why don't they go the extra step and make a masterpiece?

Did you fail to notice the sales records the game broke? well then the opportunity was perfectly realised: a game thatcan be played without an effort and appeals to all games fans except for a hardcore, ever dwindling, constantly complaining and AGING fan base that is no longer necessary.

 

[Monica21]

I'm actually surprised at how many people talk about Morrowind like it was a great game. The only way it could seem that way is when compared to Oblivion. Morrowind had nearly all the faults of Oblivion, just not quite as pronounced. And it had lousy dungeons.

I think (hope?) that most of the people on the ESF who argue for Morrowind against Oblivion do not consider Morrowind to be the best RPG ever. At least I don't. I do like Morrowind, but the atmosphere, lore, and story are what I like. And there are several NPCs that are far more memorable than any of the NPCs in Oblivion. Not necessarily the gameplay. And most of the caves in Morrowind were pretty boring, but I think the Dwemer ruins were done well. There are at least beds and cabinets, so you'd expected to have seen people living there. Not just long hallways of nothing like the ruins in Oblivion.

 

[Stalin]

Morrowind. Sure you could run around in a pretty enviroment but god it was sooo boring ....no one had anything interesting to say and the combat was like trying to stuff a watermelon up your own arse

 

[Twinfalls]

On its own merits, Morrowind possesses acres of suckage.

As a follow-up to Daggerfall, Morrowind is landlord to a galaxy-spanning estate of suckage.

Yet it seems Oblivion sucks even more.

 

[whatusername]

I have to say, the wiki dialogue was kinda cool!

 

[Monica21]

Morrowind. Sure you could run around in a pretty enviroment but god it was sooo boring ....no one had anything interesting to say and the combat was like trying to stuff a watermelon up your own arse

It's not that pretty, because 2/3 of the gameworld are the Ashlands. A select few NPCs had interesting things to say, like Hannour Zainsubani and Divayth Fyr. And I never paid attention to combat, because I think it's the most boring part of an RPG, no matter how well it's done.

 

[Darkflame]

I liked Morrowind... reminded me of an Ultima Underworld without walls but with crappy dialogue. There is so much room for improvement, but the CS adds alot of replayability. Morrowind with UWs dialogue system would have been amazing, and would have taken maybe 50 more hours to implement than the current "every NPC has the same dialogue system". A karma system would have been better too (since Fame never did anything).

 

[Texas Red]

Morrowind. Sure you could run around in a pretty enviroment but god it was sooo boring ....no one had anything interesting to say and the combat was like trying to stuff a watermelon up your own arse

It's not that pretty, because 2/3 of the gameworld are the Ashlands. A select few NPCs had interesting things to say, like Hannour Zainsubani and Divayth Fyr. And I never paid attention to combat, because I think it's the most boring part of an RPG, no matter how well it's done.

You forgat Vivec. I really liked the way he described the future that represents House Hlaalu(democracy reference) or what it is like being a god.

At least Morrowind didnt have the generic story about an evil sadist wanting to conquer everything for no reason. In my opinion Dagoth Ur should have had his way. The Tribunal should have died. Despite being demigods of Morrowind, they failed to protect it from becoming a weak province of Empire.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Cant Bethesda be sued for fals advertising?

 

[Stalin]

having played Mistmare (or at least tried to) I can safely say no they can't

 

[denizsi]

I don't understand what levitation would have taken away from the game.

Could be that speedtree trees look fucking awful from sharp angles nearby.

 

[Mr Happy]

TES have NEVER been very good RPGs judging element-wise (though daggerfall was probably the closest). But they did have other things going for them. Daggerfall, and to a slightly lesser extent Morrowind, had excellent, and very interesting worlds. Plus, the lore of the series was the most developed out of any game I can think of. But Oblivion didnt even have those things going for it. So, wtf.

 

[User was nabbed fit]

Oblivion appeals to wide audiences because it's 'simple' and easy to get into. It's been dumbed down, and yet fucktard fanboys/people in denial still refuse to believe that.

Something simple/unsophisticated, by definition, is the contrary of a good RPG. I'm willing to bet a buck or two that no future TES game will ever qualify as a proper CRPG, and yet Bethesda will continue using that term to describe its games even as they get simpler and simpler, because the meaning "RPG" has losts all its value in today's gaming world (these days, some people, and may they all burn in hell BTW, call GTA:SA an "RPG" just because it has a few stats), and most people will take it hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

I don't understand what levitation would have taken away from the game.

Could be that speedtree trees look fucking awful from sharp angles nearby.

I think it was because of the combat. One of my strategies in defeating tough opponents (Umbra at level eight, for example) was to jump to a place that the guy couldn't reach me. Then the AI would go stupid and just run around.

Then there was the fact that you could levitate into cities instead of going through the door. Also some dungeons relied on the fact that you couldn't levitate and take the secret passage that would have deposited you near the entrance if you went through the dungeon properly.

Most of those problems could have been fixed with smarter combat AI and who cares if you enter the dungeon from the secret back passage?

What I am really curious about is why was mark and recall removed from the game.

 

[Solaris]

I'm actually surprised at how many people talk about Morrowind like it was a great game. The only way it could seem that way is when compared to Oblivion. Morrowind had nearly all the faults of Oblivion, just not quite as pronounced. And it had lousy dungeons.

Yes, it has always surprised me too.....Morrowind in my estimation was the beginning of the rot. Oblivion only backed up my worst fears that they have hit rock bottom (in a rpg sense)...but money-wise tho, I guess they aint complaining

 

[golgotha]

Sad part is that I enjoyed Morrowind, as I wasn't expecting an RPG. I went into it fully expecting an Action/Adventure so I wasn't disappointed by the game elements. Well, maybe I thought the combat and dialog sucked, but the sense of exploration was what drove me. I played Oblivion with the same outlook, and yet even as an Action/Adventure its a piss poor game. The level scaling is horrid. Yes, Morrowind had it as well but it was nowhere near this visible. There's absolutely no reason to explore in Oblivion since you can go to the deepest, darkest, most hostile dungeon and still only expect to find some fur armor simply because your level 5. The quest pop ups, compass, everything.. just killed the exploration, which is the series' strongest point.

 

[Nog Robbin]

I don't understand what levitation would have taken away from the game.

What I am really curious about is why was mark and recall removed from the game.

Levitation was a combined issue with tree suckiness (I've seen people messing around with flight and things go really screwy such as floating bushes etc.), and the apparent major lag that would have been associated had the towns been part of the same contiguous world, and not a seperate cell (as they are in OB). However, I have seen work on a mod to open up the towns (build them into the game world), and apparently the FPS drop is minimal, so, go figure.

Mark and Recall was deemed no longer necessary with fast travel, and was also used most often as an exploit (particularly to Creeper - mark at creeper, go to cave, move everything in the cave to one place, pick up EVERYTHING (despite the fact you can't then move!), and recall to creeper to sell. Instead of fixing M&R so that, for example, you couldn't teleport carrying more than a certain amount (could be based on your mysticism skill - 100% mysticism allowing 100% of strength (e.g. can teleport when loaded to capacity - BUT NOT MORE (can't teleport carrying more than you can move with), and lesser values in the skill meaning you can only recall when carrying a suitable % of your capacity), and that you can't mark interiors such as shops, castles etc. they decided to remove it.
Plus, of course, if you can mark/recall, NPC's should be able to as well - and how annoying would it be if the person you are fighting suddenly teleported away to safey? Obviously they couldn't create a tracking spell or anything (despite the fricking compass working just like one!), or a cancelling spell that negates recalls...

The game went beyond dumbed down - and more towards plain dumb. Some of the gameplay decisions are beyond the rational mind.