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Myth: A New Age CYOA

Discussion in 'Choose Your Own Adventure Land' started by Fangshi, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. Erebus Arcane

    Erebus
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    I don't know, but my point was that a dwarf who can't use his explosives probably isn't very useful.

    I guess we could ask one of the armored dwarfs to come with us, but we have no way of knowing if they're actually decent in a fight.

    Also, there's the fact that we can only communicate directly with two of them, which will make coordination difficult if something bad happens.
     
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  2. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    The item they are looking for is quite important to them and dates from before the fall of their kingdom to the ghôls. Now that they are in the process of reclaiming their homelands they think they need it back. They do not trust you enough to tell you about it yet, they are in your debt but this is a matter of dwarven honour and all that. You could try to persuade them to turn back or wait at the tower but each of them is committed to their task, fully prepared to die to see it through and Thaïs' normally high CHA does not work as well when she is dealing with non humans and does not speak their language so there is that as well. They will probably try and continue no matter what you do but I can add an option to try and convince them if people want, just let me know (best case you would probably still have to take three or four of them).

    You don't know what they are up to. There are less of them around and they are less interested in what you are doing but there are still enough of them to make travel dangerous. It might be the case that most of them are now in the center of the old city looking for a way to attack the abomination but Derryth has no way to track their movements. If you wanted to send the dwarves back to the tower though you would probably have to go with them or send a mage to light the paths, keep the shadows away from them and to let them through the wards.

    The shadows or the dwarves? The shadows will not rest till the abomination is removed or destroyed. The dwarves will require a mage escort to get to the tower but beyond that should be able to manage.

    The tunnel is very narrow and you have no idea what is down there, too many people and you begin to actually harm your chances of success by getting people stuck. Someone like Gareth effectively blocks the tunnel for everyone behind him and to switch positions you would have to climb over him. The mages however are all thin and light enough to squeeze past eachother if they have to but it would be tight.

    The reason the dwarves are not listed in the options is because there is no way for me to know if you ultimately say yes or no to them. If you want to send a shield dwarf or a regular dwarf you can provided you take them with you, but only Ari and Bari speak Bruig well. The regular dwarves all know enough to follow your orders if they have to, the shield dwarves do not or can not speak Bruig and you doubt you will be able to order Jari to do anything. He seems to be of the dwarven nobility and you are a commoner and a human. Only time will tell how he will behave around you.

    No way for you to know how long the tunnel is or if it is this narrow all the way.

    They do have satchel charges and you could try to use them to open a hole but I can not guarantee that it will not cause a cave in since the building is quite old and may have unseen weaknesses. If they had the time to do a proper survey of the building's foundations maybe but they do not. And if there is something down there an explosion would probably wake it up and draw it out.

    All you know is that Serpent says he smells/senses mandrake roots, you have no idea if they are growing naturally or not.

    If B wins you simply won't tell them you have the roots. They may find out later and again they may get upset for the same reasons as in D but that would be related to choices in future updates. If you do not use the roots in 2 until you explore the tunnel a couple hours later they may be upset that you did not do everything you could to help their friends since some of them may die if Serpent can not stabilize them all. They are not likely to attack or anything, they understand why you would hold back support and you are not dwarves so they do not actually expect "honour" from you but it would upset them in all likelihood.

    They want to find the imperial offices of the Smiths of Muirthemne, it is the reason why they are taking the tunnels. If you choose to take the tunnels then you will have to pass through the offices of the Smiths on the other end to get to the vault so it would be on the way. Beyond that it is hard to say.

    The only humans he has ever met are Amena and your group and his entire idea of the surface is based upon what Amena has read to him.
     
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  3. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Great, now we are dealing with the dwarven nobility that does not even speak the language of us lowly human commoners. Lovely. If Dwarven Fortress have taught me anything, it's how to treat their nobles. Usually it involved magma pits.

    I love it how they get upset over lack of supplies, should we choose not to share. They have to be thankful they are still breathing.

    Does 3A involve looting the Dwarven Quarter for supplies? Because if we are taking care of this group, I don't think they have a right to object.
     
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  4. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Just the building/warehouse not the whole Quarter. I can add looting the whole Quarter as an option if there is interest but it would take a few days to do and would probably attract monsters.

    They won't object to you taking practical supplies (preserves, equipment, herbs) and the like if you agree to escort them as you will then be officially working for them. But they won't let you rob the place of gold or riches or anything like that and they will expect that you respect their dead and leave any personal effects you may find behind. Anything less would be seen as extremely bad form on your part and they would say something about it (from their perspective the place is a graveyard or tomb not a ruin), where things go from there would be up to you.

    They do not care about the tunnels or the offices on the other end though so you really are only limited while you are in the Dwarven Quarter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
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  5. Grimgravy Augur Patron

    Grimgravy
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    ACAC(Miosguin) A
     
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  6. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    A B>D ABA
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
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  7. Rex Feral Liturgist

    Rex Feral
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    1. B - these dwarves should kiss our ass for saving them, and they come with terms and objections. Fuck them.
    3. C - plunder everything, take everything that isn't nailed to the floor and bring it to the tower, however since everyone wants to take the dwarves I guess we an't do this. Yet. So I'll go with A, If 1.B doesn't win.
    4. C Derryth and Garreth, or Derryth and Miosguinn
    5. B. quicker usually means more dangerous

    Now since none of you guys waant to leave the dwarves behind I guess I'll put some conditional flops

    If 1.B doesn't have a chance of winning I go with:

    1. C
    2. B
    3. A
    4. C Derryth and Miosguinn>Derryth and Gareth
    5. A
     
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  8. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Since it is always a good idea to do math with a hangover let's see what the current count is...


    Current Tally: (number in brackets is the maximum possible vote for that option)

    1.
    A) 10 votes
    B) 1 vote
    C) 1 (2) vote(s)

    2.
    A)
    B) 4 (6) votes
    C) 4 (5) votes
    D) 3 (4) votes

    3.
    A) 11 (12) votes
    B)
    C) 1 vote

    4.
    A) (1) vote
    B) 2 votes
    C) 9 votes min/max votes: Miosguinn 4/5 votes, Gareth 3/4 votes, Brigit 2/3 votes, Amena 1/2 votes
    D) 1 vote

    5.
    A) 10 (11) votes
    B) 1 vote

    The polls will stay open for another 24-48 hrs depending on how things go (ties and whatnot).
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
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  9. Absinthe Prophet

    Absinthe
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    For 2, I'll make a ranked vote of D>C>B.
     
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  10. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    I'd suggest B and D voters unite behind one of these choices. We either treat the newcomers as our people, or we don't. And chances are, they will part ways with us once they get what they came here for, so they won't be staying with us forever. They treat us as mercenaries for hire, they make demands and rules for us to follow - but we don't get the payment upfront and they might lack the resourses to pay us even after they find their artefact. I see no reason to expend any resourses on them at the expense of people who actually might stick with Derryth after the adventure - if they stay alive, that is.

    In any case, they promise you payment once you get to the surface, they don't have your rewards with them. That means that in order to receive the payment, you don't need all of them alive. As long as one of them gets their artefact back to their clan, their mission - and yours - is complete.

    I'll change my vote to B>D. I do not want to waste any more resourses on them than necessary, and frankly, I think conventional medicine would be good enough for them. We burn through the roots and energon cubes with an alarming rate, I am afraid we might not have enough to make the trip back safely.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
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  11. tuluse Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
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    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    1) A - seems like it would mutually beneficial

    2) B - this is an arrangement of convenience not a brotherhood, we're not the red cross

    3) A - I just can't help myself

    4) C
    - I think this should be Brigit, but if she can't win, Gareth is my 2nd. Also, this looks like an obvious DM trap, but I guess one way to deal with a trap is to just walk straight in with your eyes wide open

    5) A - What could go wrong? :troll:
     
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  12. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    One day later the Current Tally with flops looks like this:

    1.
    10 votes for A
    3 votes for C

    2.
    5 votes for B
    7 votes for C
    1 vote for D

    3.
    13 votes for A

    4.
    2 votes for B
    10 votes for C: 6 votes for Miosguinn, 2 votes for Gareth, 1 vote each for Brigit and Amena
    1 vote for D

    5.
    12 votes for A

    I will probably close the polls in 24 hrs or so barring unresolved ties and the like.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
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  13. Absinthe Prophet

    Absinthe
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    Azira, Jester, for #2, D does not seem to be winning. It's a tie between B, and C, so would you care to settle it?

    I'm favoring C right now since with our current trio the odds are high that we will successfully harvest additional roots.
     
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  14. Jester Arbiter

    Jester
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    Guess we use it for more respect points.
    Flop 2C
     
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  15. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

    Smashing Axe
    Joined:
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    Divinity: Original Sin
    B>C (No hope for B, but eh, whatever)
    C - While I don't want anything to do with these dwarves, I think it best to share supplies with them if they do accompany us, if only to inspire some sort of kinship. No guarantee though, these are dwarves flouting imperial law. They could be ruffians who stab us in the dark.
    A - Always good to stock up on supplies.
    C Moisguinn
    A
     
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  16. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Alright, polls closed.

    Final Talley:

    Absinthe 1a 2d>c>b 3a 4c(G>M>B>A)>a
    Baltika9 1a 2b 3a 4b 5a
    Kz3r0 1c 2b 3a 4d 5a
    Anabanana 1a 2c 3a 4c(A) 5a
    Erebus 1a 2c 3a 4c(M) 5a
    Zero Credibility 1a 2c 3a 4c(M) 5a
    Azira 1a 2d 3a 4c(B) 5a
    Jester 1a 2c 3a 4c(G) 5a
    Grimgravy 1a 2c 3a 4c(M) 5a
    Nevill 1a 2b>d 3a 4b 5a
    Rex Feral 1b>c 2b 3c>a 4c(M>G) 5b>a
    tuluse 1a 2b 3a 4c(B>G) 5a
    Smashing Axe 1b>c 2c 3a 4c(M) 5a


    1.
    10 votes for A
    3 votes for C

    You will take the dwarves with you.

    2.
    5 votes for B
    7 votes for C
    1 vote for D

    And you will even use up your mandrake roots.

    3.
    13 votes for A

    You will search the building for supplies.

    4.
    2 votes for B
    10 votes for C: 6 votes for Miosguinn, 2 votes for Gareth, 1 vote each for Brigit and Amena
    1 vote for D

    You, Serpent and Miosguinn will go walk into a trap collect mandrake roots... ;)

    5.
    12 votes for A

    You will take the lower tunnels.


    Update should be out in about 12 hrs, earlier if I get a spare moment.
     
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  17. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    I wanted to try something a bit different with this update. I guess we will see how well it works.

    Chapter 8: The Perfect Time

    "Alright, alright," Serpent has been pestering you for the better part of the last hour, "You can go explore the tunnel but I am coming with you and we are bringing someone else too," you just are not yet sure who exactly.

    Serpent runs off to prepare and you begin the search for the third member of your expedition. The dwarves have for the most part warmed to your group, Jori and his two bodyguards still keep their distance but the other seven have made every attempt to demonstrate their gratitude.

    Ari and Bari even offered to give you their gold wedding bands to pay for the two mandrake roots you used to heal their wounded. You gave them your answer and sent them on their way.

    At any rate it is time to see who wants to climb down a dark, narrow, potentially monster filled tunnel. As you wander through the camp you come across Thaïs, Ari and Bari in deep conversation, seems she is asking them about the Smiths and Bari and Ari are giving a history lesson...

    The dwarven pathfinder thumbs through one of his books as he speaks, "Well from what we know the Smiths were skilled magic users and artificers. They had the ear of the Emperors for centuries and wielded considerable political power until the whole order was exterminated by Imperial decree during the time of Connacht."

    Your quartermaster hazards a few questions in response, "But why wipe them out if they were so useful? So powerful? Did they anger the Emperor?"

    His wife cuts in, "Seems the Smiths were worshipping something they should not have, some sort of Elder God or something. They traded their independence for power and when the Emperor found out he snuffed out the whole order. He made an example of them and their minions, strange spider creatures and cultists. But that comes with the territory now doesn't it, worshipping the Dark Gods has its risks."

    Well you have heard enough for today, you take advantage of a momentary pause in the conversation to interject, "Thaïs, I don't suppose you could tell me where everyone is?"

    Thaïs gives you a sly smile, "Well... Brigit and Gareth went off to check the building so we probably won't see them till tomorrow..."

    Well, you may have to dock their pay for running off but at the end of it all you are happy for them, "Ah, young love and all that. How about everyone else?"

    "Tyrvard has enlisted the kids and our new friends," she gestures to Ari and Bari who both bow low, "To properly search the building for supplies so that is what they are doing, they are probably all spread out throughout the warehouse. Jari and his shield dwarves are in one of the old offices while the Children are in their tent like usual."

    "Well then, don't suppose you want to come crawling through dark tunnels with Serpent and I?" you flash her a smile.

    "If you really need the help sure. However, Bari and Ari have agreed to teach me some Dwarven. Perhaps if we learn Jari's language we can begin to win him over."

    Bari pipes up, "I am afraid, Miss Thaïs, that my Lord Jari simply does not trust strangers. I fear your efforts will all be for nothing."

    You consider Thaïs' idea for a moment and it seems sound, besides you already know who you want to take with you. You answer Bari, "No, I think Thaïs has the right idea. Even if your lord does not trust us we can better work together if at least one of us speaks your language. Don't let me keep you from your lessons."

    As you turn to leave Thaïs asks, "And where are you going?"

    You reply without breaking your stride, "To convince the dear doctor to risk his life for some roots of course."

    --------------------------------------------------

    It was not easy but eventually you coaxed Miosguinn out of his tent and the three of you set off single file down the dark and narrow tunnel. You walk in near silence. You lead with Miosguinn in the middle casting basic concealment spells to mask your presence. Ten minutes in and the roof of the tunnel begins to slope downward, twenty minutes in and the three of you are bent near in half to avoid the low roof, thirty minutes in and you are forced to crawl and all the while Serpent swears you are getting close.

    Forty minutes in and you finally come out into a proper chamber. Serpent was right, you can see a whole sack of roots across the room... strapped to the dead body of a Journeyman. The room is filled with bodies, maybe ten in total, all reduced to bones and dust but there is no sign of what may have killed them.

    The room itself is close to a perfect cube, fifty meters across. The tunnel comes out a few dozen meters from the actual entrance to the room long since collapsed. At ten meter intervals along two of the walls are small alcoves with suits of armour in them. There is an altar at the opposite end of the room with a large statue behind. Most of the corpses are piled around the altar, "Hmmm... looks like the room is trapped..."

    Serpent comes out of the tunnel behind you and takes a look around the room, he sniffs the air a little, "Well I was right about the mandrake roots, but you are right this is obviously a trap."

    "Well then we are all in agreement," Miosguinn brushes the dust off his robes as he joins the two of you at the edge of the chamber, "I imagine if we set off the trap then those suits of armour will set to work murdering us. I count seven still in one piece and I am not sure we could beat them cleanly."

    You are inclined to agree. You speak, more to yourself than to either of your companions, "Possibly but look at how the bodies are arranged, most of them died close to the altar. I think the trigger for the trap is on the far side of the room, probably the altar or the statue..."

    You do not like the situation but you came all this way and you won't turn tail at the first trap you encounter, "We are going to cross the room. You two stay close and Misoguinn keep those illusions up. Do not step anywhere but where I step, there may be other traps as well."

    Your initial concerns prove correct, three arrow traps, two spear traps and a small pit trap litter the room all attached to pressure plates or trip wires but your years of experience safely see the group to the far side.

    Serpent grabs the roots and you consider looting the nine gold plates on the Journeyman's armour. You search the rest of the bodies but find little of real value, old weapons, armour that you can not use, and expired rations. They do have some money which you promptly pocket but beyond that there is very little of interest or use.

    You turn your attention to the alter and the statue. Smeared in dried blood on the altar are the words Beware the Guardians. Seems you were right, the statue and altar must be the means by which these suits of armour, clearly Stygian Knights, are triggered.

    The statue takes the form of a young and handsome warrior and looks to be solid bronze with a little latch in the abdomen. It holds a length of chain with a key in the shape of a sword on the end of it which slowly swings back and forth. On the altar are twelve holes arranged in a circle and text that spirals inwards towards the center of the circle.

    It reads:

    The statue before you

    Holds chain that was made

    For keeping the time

    With its pendulum blade

    The mid hour of night

    Is farthest away

    From where the eyes of the statue

    In its head lay

    Hours of daytime

    And hours of night

    Here are the same

    I shall shed that light

    Each hour is named

    After person or thing

    Your job is to find me

    I am not hiding

    With the silence of grave

    A death come too soon

    The master of Shadow

    Stands thirteen past noon

    Past him stands the Gypsy

    And somewhere between, a valiant sight

    A Knight of the realm

    And a Dragon who fight

    Merchant, a trader

    His wares beside him in Wagon

    Crouches as far away as he can

    From the infamous Dragon

    The mystical Gypsy

    With her tarot cards

    Steadies his wares

    Lest they crash into shards

    The beast of red scale

    And long crimson tongue

    Is caught right between Knight’s blade

    And the shadowy one

    Across from the Castle

    Stands the Giant of rock

    The Hydra of nightmares

    Stands across from the Cock

    The Cock is a rooster

    With feathers of red

    Which stands next to Gypsy

    Who gives it its bread

    The Peasant sleeps poorly

    He tosses and screams

    For his is the hour

    Of ghosts in his dreams

    My place is not tricky

    Find where I lie

    I stand where not mentioned

    Which hour am I?

    You turn your attention back to the compartment on the statue. You test it to see if it is locked and it is but when you touch the handle you think you hear a faint voice. Unfortunately you can not make out what it is saying.

    If you had to guess you would say that picking the correct choice will open the compartment releasing whatever treasure is inside but picking the wrong answer will probably activate the Stygian Knights. If that happens hopefully Miosguinn can mask your presence while you make your escape.

    If experience has taught you anything these sorts of traps often hold powerful treasure but maybe you are pushing your luck. You have the roots, maybe you should just head back. Serpent and Miosguinn are looking to you for an order on how to proceed, time to make a choice.

    Now I am not sure how good the Codex is at puzzles but this is a dungeon crawl and it is my belief that there should be some so here is what I will do. If no one can solve the puzzle then I can have Derryth try and do it herself, she has high Wis and Int but it will be a check to see if she can figure it out so there is no guarantee of success.


    1. Do you try and solve the puzzle?

    A) Yes - You want whatever treasure is hidden in the statue.

    B) No - You don't want to risk it.

    C) Maybe - You will write down the riddle and work on it as a group at your leisure. You can then come back later... hopefully.


    2. If you chose to solve the puzzle then how do you want to go about it? If you want Derryth to try and solve it herself then vote for option A. If you would rather try and solve the puzzle yourselves then vote for option B and provide your answer to the puzzle. The twelve holes are arranged like the face of a clock so simply type the time that corresponds with your answer. For example twelve o'clock or six o'clock.

    A) Derryth will try and solve it without voter input

    B) The voters will provide Derryth's answer. Type your answer, the one with the most votes wins.

    C) Get Serpent and Miosguinn to help decipher the puzzle. (This increases your odds but will still involve a check)


    3. Ari and Bari offered to give you their wedding bands to pay for the mandrake roots you used to save their comrades. What did you tell them?

    A) You took the wedding bands, they will more than pay for the roots.

    B)You could not bring yourself to take their rings.

    C) You don't want the rings, instead you tell the dwarves that they owe you a favour to be collected at your discretion.


    4. The Journeymen were an order of healers founded by the disgraced Heron Guard after the fall of Old Muirthemne. When Alric reformed the Empire they were disbanded and once more became Heron Guard. Each Journeyman carried nine solid gold tiles taken from the ruins of the place, a symbol of the weight of their shame and duty failed. The tiles are worth a lot if you want to take them, or you could respect the importance of the tiles and leave them.

    A) You take them.

    B) You leave them on the dead Journeyman.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
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  18. Absinthe Prophet

    Absinthe
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    I can't help but notice your options go 1, 2, 4, 5. What happened to option #3?

    2C - The three of them put their heads together to solve it. I cannot help but imagine that Serpent with his 9 int can provide better analysis and Miosguinn with his Circle's fondness for scouring tomes and high int and wis could also contribute useful insights.
     
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  19. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Question two was originally two separate questions but I rolled three into two. I just forgot to update the numbers but they are now correct.

    Added, it will still be a check though so there is the potential they fail.
     
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  20. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

    Smashing Axe
    Joined:
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    Divinity: Original Sin
    A (What kind of scavenger are we if we don't even brave the first trial we encounter?)
    B (Will try to figure this out later. Too sleep deprived right now)
    B (Loyalty is worth more than a piddly amount of gold)
    A (Large plates of gold are worth more than respect for the dead. Stop if Serpent bitches however)
     
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  21. Absinthe Prophet

    Absinthe
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    Sounds good. 3B 4A as Smashing Axe says. Unless we find the solution now, I'm inclined to go with 1C which is to scribble down the entire riddle and have the group spend a good while definitively solving it before coming back. If no one else, the good doctor should have some spare parchment on his person.
     
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  22. treave Arcane Patron

    treave
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    Codex 2012
    Huh, let's see if this works out...

    Thirteen hours past noon is one on the clock, so let's put Shadow down as one.

    Shadow(1)

    Knight and Dragon are between Shadow and Gypsy.

    Shadow(1) --- Knight --- Dragon --- Gypsy

    The Wagon is besides the Merchant and the Gypsy is by the Wagon, so...

    Shadow(1) --- Knight --- Dragon --- Gypsy-Wagon-Merchant

    Dragon is between Shadow and Knight.

    Shadow(1)-Dragon(2)-Knight(3) --- Gypsy-Wagon-Merchant

    Since Merchant is farthest away from Dragon, I'd assume it is the opposite number on the clock, thus:

    Shadow(1)-Dragon(2)-Knight(3) --- Gypsy(6)-Wagon(7)-Merchant(8)

    Putting Giant and Castle aside for now, Cock is next to Gypsy. And Hydra is across from Cock. If Cock is 5, Hydra will be 11 on the clock.

    Shadow(1)-Dragon(2)-Knight(3) --- Cock(5)-Gypsy(6)-Wagon(7)-Merchant(8) --- Hydra(11)

    The witching hour is midnight, it seems.

    So the Peasant is 12.

    Shadow(1)-Dragon(2)-Knight(3) --- Cock(5)-Gypsy(6)-Wagon(7)-Merchant(8)---Hydra(11)-Peasant (12)

    This leaves us with Castle, Giant and the Answer, with the numbers 4, 9, and 10 left.

    Castle is across from Giant, thus they will be 4 and 10. Which is which I don't think matters, because no matter how you cut it, it leaves us with one last number.

    Shadow(1)-Dragon(2)-Knight(3)-Castle(4)-Cock(5)-Gypsy(6)-Wagon(7)-Merchant(8)-???(9)-Giant-(10)-Hydra(11)-Peasant(12)

    Nine o'clock.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
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  23. Absinthe Prophet

    Absinthe
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    3,202
    I'm afraid we need more riddles and trickier ones at that. This one got solved before I even started figuring it out. Witching Hour is typically either 3 o'clock or midnight, I believe.

    Adjusting vote to 1A2B - Nine o'clock.
     
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  24. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,997
    You need but ask, this is one I use to benchmark groups as it is admittedly not too difficult.

    If there is demand for more then I will break out some of my more specialized books and pdfs and see what I can come up with.
     
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  25. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

    Smashing Axe
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,701
    Divinity: Original Sin
    Hey, could you hit me up with some of those please? I won't vote on any of the riddles that you do use, it'd just be nice to use when I run a PnP game. Also consider that when you're dealing with 10+ players, someone's probably going to work out the riddle no matter what it is, given time.
     
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