Review Nevwerwinter Nights 2 double review whammy

[Volourn]

" I think NWN2 has a far superior narrative arc than BG2... "

DSon't be retarded. NWN2's story arc is retarded. Unlike even NWN1 which had a much better story arc; it was nothing more than collect x sahrd and 'u r special b/c you have a sword shard up your ass (actually your chest; but the point stands).


"Compared to Baldurs gate 2 for example the AI pathfinding is actually better."

No.


"The problem I have with the whole Bhaalspawn storyline is that the second part of the series mostly felt like one big giant sidequest."

Nope. The BG series is about discovering your heritage, and that's exactly what you do in BG2 through your interaction with Irenicus. They just didn't hit you over the head.


"Narratively speaking, not within the context of the engine, or the game play, NWN2 is very much like BG2."

No, it isn't. Only morons think so.


"which are perfectly legimate *in a certain context*."

Moron.

 

[Pseudofool]

I agree with this, and moreover, I think NWN2 has a far superior narrative arc than BG2...

Would you please remind me, in what part of BG2 storyline were you asked to save the world from CERTAIN DESTRUCTION and assemble shards of THE GREAT SWORD that will help you SAVE THE WORLD? NWN2 story is very weak, it have good points, but when this githzerai bitch said that i am the only one who can save the world i've nearly fallen asleep in front of my monitor...BG2 storyline may not be one of the greatests in history, but at least it's not ruining the gameplay with it's cinematic(c) and immersive(tm) stupidity.

The problem I have with the whole Bhaalspawn storyline is that the second part of the series mostly felt like one big giant sidequest. .

Thats exactly why i like it so much: noone is annoying you with retarded "save the world" requests, you are fighting for yourself.

Irenicus certainly had Amn's destruction in mind; and if he obtained the power hte Bhaal Spawn I'm sure he'd just slip away into some tower. Give me break. Your memory is working with rose-colored glasses. Most of the save the world stuff happens in the Thorne of Bhaal. And for much of NWN2 YOU ARE NOT SAVING THE WORLD, it's only about half way through ACT2 that that narrative becomes important.

 

[Volourn]

"And for much of NWN2 YOU ARE NOT SAVING THE WORLD, it's only about half way through ACT2 that that narrative becomes important."

Bullshit. the whole game is about 'saving the world'. Dumbass. BG2 was *never*about saving the world. It was about learning about your character, and dealing with a mad man who wanted to mess with you.

 

[Pseudofool]

" I think NWN2 has a far superior narrative arc than BG2... "

DSon't be retarded. NWN2's story arc is retarded. Unlike even NWN1 which had a much better story arc; it was nothing more than collect x sahrd and 'u r special b/c you have a sword shard up your ass (actually your chest; but the point stands).

Ever read a book, or is your concept of narrative restricted to CRPGs? NWN has much worse fed-ex quest, go get four parts of cure, go get four parts of those stupid old rocks. What makes the arc of NWN2 compelling is the gradual progression of you going from harbormen to adventurer to city watch to squire to accused criminal to captain to knight captain to hero. The Twist about the trial deviates pretty strongly from typical CRPG storytelling, and I think for the better.

"The problem I have with the whole Bhaalspawn storyline is that the second part of the series mostly felt like one big giant sidequest."

Nope. The BG series is about discovering your heritage, and that's exactly what you do in BG2 through your interaction with Irenicus. They just didn't hit you over the head.

No it's not, it's about trying to find out why so many people are trying to kill you. Your heritage (cough) is not based within culture but in some bastardizing God, GIVEMEABREAK.

"Narratively speaking, not within the context of the engine, or the game play, NWN2 is very much like BG2."

No, it isn't. Only morons think so.

You're adhominen attacks are so convincing. I really wonder whom you think you're talking to. Just who are you convincing? The little minions in your head. L e t m e s i m p l i f y the similarities for you.

Blood of Bhaal = Sword in Chest
Discovering Bhaal history = Discovering Gith history
Going from Chased after turd to hero = going from chased after turd to hero.
BG1 Badguy (can't think of name. "K..") = Lorne (from same home town)
Irenicus = Garius
King of Shadows = Bhaal

"which are perfectly legimate *in a certain context*."

Moron.

Really why is this comparison so abhorrent to you. Narcissism? Obsessive Compulsiveness? Are you just stubborn? One could argue that "all comparisons about any two things are legitimate "in certain contexts""--ever heard of concepts like analyst, argumentation, critical thinking??

 

[Volourn]

Youa re an idiot. Bring true evidence to the table, or I will continue to laugh at your stupidity.

Your comaprison is lame espicially since Bhall only makes one semi nminor appearnace in the game and its in a dream. How the ehll do you compare Bhaal to KOS is eyond me. Not to mention your other comaprison. Retard.

Garius is the equivelant of Irenicus?

Bhall blood is the equivelant of asss word?

You gotta be kiidn'. Nah. Youa re simply retarded.

Retard.


"What makes the arc of NWN2 compelling is the gradual progression of you going from harbormen to adventurer to city watch to squire to accused criminal to captain to knight captain to hero."

What you menat to say is it's what makes NWN2's story arc so linear. You simply have no choice. Way less choice than you have in NWN1 which is pretty scary since NWN2 uses more dialogue skill checks. L0L


"Yopu, Khelagr, I dunno wnat you to come with me!"

"OK." *END OF GAME, kHELAGR IS STILL THERE*


Or better: *do all these evil chaotic things, and Nasher still backs you*

Whatever.


NWN2's story arc is really linear,a nd the story is simply good. It's a little worse than NWN1's. The only thing NWN2's story does better is that you actually have a choice in the end to be good, or bad. R00fles!

 

[Hamster]

Most of the save the world stuff happens in the Thorne of Bhaal.

First of all, unlike BG2,main story in Throne of Baal was mostly as bad as in NWN2, i never said otherwise. Except there was no world saving in ToB, eeeevil god just rules his eeeevil domain, not destroys the world, small relief but still...

Irenicus certainly had Amn's destruction in mind; and if he obtained the power hte Bhaal Spawn I'm sure he'd just slip away into some tower.

Irenicus ultimate goal was to become a god and burn a few cities in process. The main difference between destroyng city and destroying world is that if you don't give a fuck about this city you can just leave and seek adventures somewhere else. Of course you won't be able to do so in crpg, but it still gives you a feeling that you are adventuring on your own and not watching bad interactive movie. To give the players who don't want to save anyting some motivation in storyline authors of Bg2 introduced the need to aquire your power for Irenicus, so defeating him will be a personal matter.
To sum it up, in BG2, while you are still forced to save Imoen, Amn, that elven city or whatever, it's not nearly as iriitating as in Oblivion or NWN1-2 due to better story.

 

[Volourn]

You aren't forced to save Imoen.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

Thats exactly why i like it so much: noone is annoying you with retarded "save the world" requests, you are fighting for yourself.

But the same "fighting for yourself" feeling could be achieved without taking a big step aside from the story. My character, personally, never fought to save the world - From the very first game the idea behind him was "So i am a Bhaalspawn? Cool. Now where do i sign for godhood?"

So the story was already prepared for a "me, me, ME!" character out to take godhood whatever the price, or anything along those lines. Now take BGII story, change a couple of things, throw in a couple of Bhaalspawns, and you have the same tale without it being a side quest. Hell, make they kill Imoen and you have a pretty tale of either "The hunger for power" or "Revenge." Or make it more complex and mix the too, if you want, with a fucked up power hungry character whose "sister" death kills the little humanity he had left and gives you the chance to actually roleplay his descent to insanity and his becoming into something completely inhuman. The side step was not necessary in the least, and it was actually counter productive to the story being told - That of the Bhaalspawns, their conflicts, their fates, and their heritage.

Blood of Bhaal = Sword in Chest
Discovering Bhaal history = Discovering Gith history
Going from Chased after turd to hero = going from chased after turd to hero.
BG1 Badguy (can't think of name. "K..") = Lorne (from same home town)
Irenicus = Garius
King of Shadows = Bhaal

Are you conscious that such guidelines describe quite a lot of stories?

Important item = The one ring
Discovering a story = Discovering the one ring/sauron/blah blah story
Going from chased after turd to hero= Getting to Rivendel or whatever it was called in one piece and then becoming the ring bearer
First Chapter Boss that seems cool but is a weakling in comparation with what is to come= The Balrog
Second Chapter Sidestory Boss = Saruman
Uber Boss = Sauron

That structure is nothing very original, really. And i am only using that one story to give a well known example, as that same storytelling structure is older than prostitution. Well, almost.

 

[Pseudofool]

Thats exactly why i like it so much: noone is annoying you with retarded "save the world" requests, you are fighting for yourself.

But the same "fighting for yourself" feeling could be achieved without taking a big step aside from the story. My character, personally, never fought to save the world - From the very first game the idea behind him was "So i am a Bhaalspawn? Cool. Now where do i sign for godhood?"

So the story was already prepared for a "me, me, ME!" character out to take godhood whatever the price, or anything along those lines. Now take BGII story, change a couple of things, throw in a couple of Bhaalspawns, and you have the same tale without it being a side quest. Hell, make they kill Imoen and you have a pretty tale of either "The hunger for power" or "Revenge." Or make it more complex and mix the too, if you want, with a fucked up power hungry character whose "sister" death kills the little humanity he had left and gives you the chance to actually roleplay his descent to insanity and his becoming into something completely inhuman. The side step was not necessary in the least, and it was actually counter productive to the story being told - That of the Bhaalspawns, their conflicts, their fates, and their heritage.

Blood of Bhaal = Sword in Chest
Discovering Bhaal history = Discovering Gith history
Going from Chased after turd to hero = going from chased after turd to hero.
BG1 Badguy (can't think of name. "K..") = Lorne (from same home town)
Irenicus = Garius
King of Shadows = Bhaal

Are you conscious that such guidelines describe quite a lot of stories?

Important item = The one ring
Discovering a story = Discovering the one ring/sauron/blah blah story
Going from chased after turd to hero= Getting to Rivendel or whatever it was called in one piece and then becoming the ring bearer
First Chapter Boss that seems cool but is a weakling in comparation with what is to come= The Balrog
Second Chapter Sidestory Boss = Saruman
Uber Boss = Sauron

That structure is nothing very original, really. And i am only using that one story to give a well known example, as that same storytelling structure is older than prostitution. Well, almost.

My point was only to justify the comparison, not to demonstrate it's prostituted narrative--which I think is a grosse and unfair generalization. But clearly, as a far as a narrative goes BG and NWN2 ARE comparable.

 

[Top Hat]

Has there ever been an RPG where your character is supposed to condemn the world to destruction?

 

[RK47]

Arcanum

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Gothic 3?

 

[Vault Dweller]

[shameless hype] AoD [/hype]

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Has there ever been an RPG where your character is supposed to condemn the world to destruction?

Uh... Disgaea, I think. If that counts.

 

[Jasede]

Terranigma, but that's an action-adventure.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, but that's not a REAL rpg.

 

[The_Pope]

Elric of Melniboné did it, has anyone made a game about it?

 

[elander_]

NWN2's story arc is really linear,a nd the story is simply good. It's a little worse than NWN1's. The only thing NWN2's story does better is that you actually have a choice in the end to be good, or bad. R00fles!

What about character dialogs and sub-quests? Don't lie.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Elric of Melniboné did it, has anyone made a game about it?

There was an isometric RPG in development, but it was cancelled.

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

On a side note, can anyone of those who've played NWN2 tell me whether it's possible to finish the game without those annoying companions? I very much prefer playing all those BioWare Infinity/Aurora games without them (with the exception of Planescape: Torment) - in BG2 I put them in my party only to access their quests and tell them to sod off afterwards. But, since they're supposed to be 'crucial' to the storyline in NWN2 (or at least that's the impression I've got from all of 'em interviews), it'd seem that they are in fact needed to move the plot forward. Anyone?

 

[Volourn]

A. They're not really crucial except ina couple of cases where just a couple of scripts could have cjanged that.

B. You can't get rid of them. The game explodes if you do.

 

[AlanC9]

Irenicus certainly had Amn's destruction in mind; and if he obtained the power hte Bhaal Spawn I'm sure he'd just slip away into some tower.

Surely you mean Suldanesselar, not Amn. Irenicus didn't care enough about humans to want to destroy their realms.