Game News New screens and movie of Ashes: Two Worlds Collide

[Spazmo]

Tags: Ashes: Two Worlds Collide

The folks behind <a href=http://ashes.lalista.org/>Ashes: Two Worlds Collide</a> have put up some screenshots and a video of their final graphics wizardry.<blockquote>...to grow a brand new world! The final Ashes world, in this case. And the roots are not just metaphorical, because mr. ShadowMoses engineered all kinds of trees and plants to replace the "fake 3d" billboards we used previously. So the world is being molded into its final shape, and the creation process begins with wilderness, that we'll later populate with constructions and cities. So take a peek at what we're doing, witness the fact that we're still alive and coding - with a few new screenshots and ... our first shy attempt to a movie! At last you can have a sample of how the graphics, sound, music and gameplay of Ashes are blended together to give it its unique taste of oldschool nostalgy rendered in 3d. Don't miss a chance to send out some comments this time, we really need some more than ever!</blockquote>Man, this makes that other guy's game--what is it, Ass Dweller?--look like crap!

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Wow, the game's really starting to come together. Good thing too because it would suck if we lost a promising title like this to the evils of game development.

 

[Mefi]

Only thing that bothers me about what their site says about the game is the bit about the guards starting to chase you as soon as you're in a town as your reputation follows you.

I hope that doesn't mean omniscient guards who know all your crimes as soon as you commit them.

But it does look like an interesting game if they manage to finish it.

 

[Jora]

Gorgeous and very atmospheric.

 

[FrancoTAU]

I'm hoping that means if you really built up your rep by committing genocide on neighboring towns. Either way, drop those guys a line about it. They'll listen... they're good people.

And wow, that is a big graphical improvement. It's not Oblivion quite yet but it's moved up from looking like a DOS era game to the late 90s era graphics. The really obvious outlines of the actual people still bugs me out a bit though. It almost makes them look like paper cut outs.

Still looking foward to it and hope it doesn't become vaporware.

 

[Jora]

The really obvious outlines of the actual people still bugs me out a bit though. It almost makes them look like paper cut outs.

That's the stylistic effect they're trying to achieve.

 

[Screaming_life]

Only thing that bothers me about what their site says about the game is the bit about the guards starting to chase you as soon as you're in a town as your reputation follows you.

I hope that doesn't mean omniscient guards who know all your crimes as soon as you commit them.

You can get away with murder or other crimes if no guards see you BUT if you continue to kill people in cold blood your wanted level will increase. Why? investigation. The wanted level works a bit like with GTA's star system.

This isn't final but it's want we hope to do:

1* = Guards won't seek you but talk to them and they'll ask you to pay a fine.

2* = If you are near to a guard he will approach you and ask for a fine

3* = If spotted by a guard he will either ask for a fine or send you to prison. If you refuse you automatically get a 4th star.

4* = Guards will try and kill you on sight

5* = Bounty hunters are sent after you and will ambush you.

Reducing stars isn't easy... or at least not cheap! Possible methods *might* include: confessing, receiving a blessing or perhaps paying someone to divert the investigation away from you.

The really obvious outlines of the actual people still bugs me out a bit though. It almost makes them look like paper cut outs.

The outline can be disabled fairly easily by setting OUTLINE=0 in each item file (txt) would probably only take about 30 mins or something. People outlines though are hardcoded. It's probably something that could be moved to the char files but whether we bother wasting our time with it i don't know... most likely we won't.

In the end we like it and it does add a stylistic touch which as much as is realistically possible, makes it stand out. We'd never be able to keep up with gfx tech but style can add that certain something that helps make up it... even if just a tiny bit.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

1* = Guards won't seek you but talk to them and they'll ask you to pay a fine.

Ehh, that worked really stiffly in morrowind. Hopefully you'll do better. For instance, it could work well like this:

You approach the guard and ask him for directions. He starts to talk and then he stops and goes "Hey, aren't you the guy who blah blah blah." He explains that your crime was pretty minor, and could be "handled" if you pay him say 10gold or whatever to keep his mouth shut about it.

That would be much more realistic than just going up to guard and him going "SCOUNDREL! PAY 20 GOLD!" Still, there should be some minor/rookie guards looking around for you.

Also, how will the investigation work? Like, will guards in other cities automatically know about the crime once it reaches the "investigation" level or will you give it a few days for the news to reach them?

 

[Screaming_life]

1* = Guards won't seek you but talk to them and they'll ask you to pay a fine.

Ehh, that worked really stiffly in morrowind. Hopefully you'll do better. For instance, it could work well like this:

You approach the guard and ask him for directions. He starts to talk and then he stops and goes "Hey, aren't you the guy who blah blah blah." He explains that your crime was pretty minor, and could be "handled" if you pay him say 10gold or whatever to keep his mouth shut about it.

Yeah that would be nice. Essentially it's the same except you ask a question first, followed by the "HEY IT'S YOU!" line which just happens to be preceeded partly by the normal response to the question... yeah it's a cool idea, and should be simple to do. The bribe option should probably be some kind of skill check (pay half the normal fine)... and a threaten option would be nice.

Also, how will the investigation work? Like, will guards in other cities automatically know about the crime once it reaches the "investigation" level or will you give it a few days for the news to reach them?

"Investigation" isn't as advanced as it may sound. There will certainly be no "real" investigation. As for delayed news, i don't know. It may be conviently just as long as it takes to walk there!

 

[galsiah]

Ehh, that worked really stiffly in morrowind. Hopefully you'll do better.

I second that. How about this:
At one star, the guards aren't really sure that you are the guilty party, so they don't try to apprehend you. However, once you start talking to one, it occurs to him that you might be the guy guilty of ???, so he asks you if you're guilty / accuses you. At this point you could have an option to admit it - so pay the fine etc. -, or to deny it, requiring some form of successful stat check to bluff your way out of it.

Successfully bluffing would allow you to avoid paying for the time being - or perhaps to avoid paying at all if the guard could be convinced it really wasn't you (easily passed stat check / harder stat check??), and failing would probably increase the fine.

Basically I'd like it to make sense. I can't see how the guards would not bother to apprehend you, unless they weren't sure you were the guilty one. If they're not sure you're the guy they're after, it makes sense that you'd stand a chance of talking your way out of it.

If, on the other hand, one star crimes simply aren't important enough for the guards to bother with, what would the reaction be to a refusal to pay a fine because you don't want to yet, or can't pay at that time? It wouldn't make much sense to me for automatic jail / attack to be the consequence - if the guard were going to react that way, why wasn't he actively pursuing the player in the first place?

Anyway, just a thought. I'll be happy with anything that makes sense.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Heh, I had no idea how time would work in the game or whatnot so I just threw a figure out there. Omniscient guards aren't cool in the least. A neat thing to do would be once the crime was commited (and if it was spotted) send out "dispatchers" or whatnot to alert other towns and places. Something like that. It could be something as simple as pigeons or whatever. As long as it's noticeable and gives the player the impression that his crimes are being broadcast so he won't just flip out when he goes to the next city and is immediately slaughtered by guards.

That's just me, though. If that's too tought to implement or whatever, I undestand.

 

[Screaming_life]

How about this:
At one star, the guards aren't really sure that you are the guilty party, so they don't try to apprehend you. However, once you start talking to one, it occurs to him that you might be the guy guilty of ???, so he asks you if you're guilty / accuses you. At this point you could have an option to admit it - so pay the fine etc. -, or to deny it, requiring some form of successful stat check to bluff your way out of it.

Successfully bluffing would allow you to avoid paying for the time being - or perhaps to avoid paying at all if the guard could be convinced it really wasn't you (easily passed stat check / harder stat check??), and failing would probably increase the fine.

I like it.

Admit => standard fine
Bluff [fail] => increased fine
Bluff [success] => avoid fine... with possibility to have the star removed [critical bluff! ]
Bribe [fail] => increased fine
Bribe [success] => half standard fine, star removed
Threaten [fail] => bumps up to 4*
Threaten [success] => avoid fine, stars removed

Success could be influenced by guard rank as well.

If, on the other hand, one star crimes simply aren't important enough for the guards to bother with, what would the reaction be to a refusal to pay a fine because you don't want to yet, or can't pay at that time? It wouldn't make much sense to me for automatic jail / attack to be the consequence - if the guard were going to react that way, why wasn't he actively pursuing the player in the first place?

I think i'd liken the 1* more to your notoriety than the severity of the crime.

But honestly i don't know how we'll implement it, it's too early to say... but these are good ideas.

A neat thing to do would be once the crime was commited (and if it was spotted) send out "dispatchers" or whatnot to alert other towns and places. Something like that. It could be something as simple as pigeons or whatever. As long as it's noticeable and gives the player the impression that his crimes are being broadcast so he won't just flip out when he goes to the next city and is immediately slaughtered by guards.

Messengers - npc's with schedule: go to place X and "talk" to the head guard = "ALARM"
It's the kind of thing that is bound to go wrong.

Not sure how the pigeon thing would work and not sure it would be that noticeable would it? (where do they fly from? what distinguishes them from normal pigeons? would the player even see it?)

 

[Naked_Lunch]

That was just an example, I guess. Something like that. Have them light big ol' fires like in that scene from LOTR. As long as message across that you did something so awful they have to alert the other towns in the area about it. That sort of thing, y'know. Plus, you could make it so you can sneak into the tower and light the fires yourself, setting off a false alarm and catch the guys off guard when you really DO commit the crime. Hehe, that's probalby just wishful thinking though

 

[Mefi]

Thanks for the explanation Screaming_life.

 

[Severian Silk]

If you could intercept the messengers, that would be cool too.

I.e., the authorities send a runner to the neighboring town informing them to keep a lookout. However, you're waiting in the woods and intercept the messenger before he gets to his destination. After some time, the runner fails to return and they send out three armed guys on horseback to deliver the message and determine the fate of the runner.

 

[Claw]

[Threaten [fail] => bumps up to 4*

I'd say bump to 3* rather, if the player's still uncooperative, it'll go to 4 anyway.

I think i'd liken the 1* more to your notoriety than the severity of the crime.

Yeah well, but I agree with galsiah, if the guards didn't bother to appoach you, they just don't seem to care. Maybe at 1* only local guards will approach you, and guars will remark you look like "that guy" and advise you pay the fine. If you ask why, they'll explain how the wanted system works. If you say you're not it, they'll leave you alone for the time being. Also, make sure that guards don't appear like a mindless swarm. If there are several guards nearby, only one should approach you, they should remember it and not bother you again for a while. Use a small radius of awareness (or something) to trigger it, so Guards don't come running after you.
2* should from the description of it only me midlyl harsher, Guards everywhere may approach you and give their friendly advice. At level three, they'll spot you sooner, come in groups (i.e. one guard approaching you won't stop the others) and threaten, as described. Because to me, only at this point (according to your initial description) it makes sense for them to behave agressive.

Going from 1* to 2* should go fairly quick. 3* to 4* should go faster, but overall the system should favour a harsh reaction. You don't want guards nicely asking criminals to pay therir fine without consequences, and from your initial description it doesn't sound like you want guards to haul you off into prison for every little thing, but the first stars should really be just a small buffer before you reach the point where you're treated like a real criminal.
In fact, maybe you'll want to put a level in where guards will haul you off into prison right away rather than ask for a fine. Asking for a fine sounds like a pitiful way to treat a criminal. You know, if you can bribe them, that's a great way to deal with it. It's like a fine, but with a different feel to it.

 

[LlamaGod]

I think it would be fun if more statistically values or race choices played into how severe fines and guards are to you, on top of the said dialog options.

It would add to roleplaying.

Like if you have a really high strength, guards wont be as nuts about getting after you.

or races, even. 'Lousy orcs always causing problems!'

Stuff like that.


I do really want dialog options when it comes to dealing with the law though, for obvious reasons but also because I think it would be nice give to thieves a reason to delve into dialog abilities.

Usually in RPGs, thieves can get their way around NPCs thought various ways and get the best of their class while getting most of the options a dialog-only player would.

 

[Jora]

Like if you have a really high strength, guards wont be as nuts about getting after you.

or races, even. 'Lousy orcs always causing problems!'

Stuff like that.

I agree. It's always a good thing to implement racism in an RPG.

 

[LlamaGod]

Like if you have a really high strength, guards wont be as nuts about getting after you.

or races, even. 'Lousy orcs always causing problems!'

Stuff like that.

I agree. It's always a good thing to implement racism in an RPG.

It would give you another reason to think about when making a character and would offer more roleplaying.

 

[Jora]

And it boosts immersion.

 

[FrancoTAU]

That's cool. I think really looking into dialogue/stat checking for dealing with the law would be awesome. Really gives an incentive for thieves and other unsavory characters to distribute some points into other stats other than agility/dexterity.

The InstaAwareness of guards in other towns doesn't bother me all that much. I just hope 1 or 2 stars fades with time and/or distance like GTA though. It'd be pretty silly that another town would know about your petty thievery.

 

[sheek]

Doesn't look very good.

 

[Screaming_life]

[Threaten [fail] => bumps up to 4*

I'd say bump to 3* rather, if the player's still uncooperative, it'll go to 4 anyway.

Yes, better.

I think i'd liken the 1* more to your notoriety than the severity of the crime.

Yeah well, but I agree with galsiah, if the guards didn't bother to appoach you, they just don't seem to care.

Yes but rather than it being a case of them not caring it's more that you are simply not *known* to them - You don't figure highly on their most wanted list, they may have only glanced at your "face" - bigger fish to fry.

But when you talk to them, suspicion is raised and maybe they even *check their list*

Thats how it is in my head anyway. Higher stars reflect their awareness of who you are, 4* and you're known to either resist arrest or the culmination of your crimes is worthy of death. 5* - people fear you and the guards are prepared to go to extra lengths to protect their citizens/save face/bla bla.

In fact, maybe you'll want to put a level in where guards will haul you off into prison right away rather than ask for a fine. Asking for a fine sounds like a pitiful way to treat a criminal. You know, if you can bribe them, that's a great way to deal with it. It's like a fine, but with a different feel to it.

Yeah, good idea.

Like if you have a really high strength, guards wont be as nuts about getting after you.

You, the party or the specific party member?

I like the idea though... taking it a bit further a strong char could have less heat on him at lower star levels but more at higher - recognising him as a threat - "shit we can't ignore this guy anymore, we better go all out"

The InstaAwareness of guards in other towns doesn't bother me all that much. I just hope 1 or 2 stars fades with time and/or distance like GTA though. It'd be pretty silly that another town would know about your petty thievery.

Potentially but it implies that sleeping/wasting time is a way around it, the player might become too obsessed with it: "i'm on two stars, better sleep for a week"

Also there is the issue of the 3 different empires, they might/could have different responses to dealing with crime. Zero tollerance in the True Faith for example.

 

[mathboy]

Potentially but it implies that sleeping/wasting time is a way around it, the player might become too obsessed with it: "i'm on two stars, better sleep for a week"

Why not make it a bit risky to sleep, if in town and with guards after you? Maybe that nice lady across the street from your room starts wondering why you haven't been outside your door for a week and asks the guards to see if there's something wrong with you.

 

[Claw]

Yes but rather than it being a case of them not caring it's more that you are simply not *known* to them - You don't figure highly on their most wanted list, they may have only glanced at your "face" - bigger fish to fry.

But when you talk to them, suspicion is raised and maybe they even *check their list*

Still sounds like they basically don't give a damn, and that's perfectly sensible, but the transistion is too abrupt. They really must consider it a minor matter to show that little interest in enforcing it, you don't even mention any repercussions for the first two levels.
Anyway, my suggestions were aimed at a more natural feeling, regardless of the details. You should certainly avoid a situation where talking to a guard is a sure way to be apprehended while you can walk past right in front of them unbothered. There should be a chance they approach you if you pass in front of them.

How does prison work by the way? Do you actually get to play inside prison, maybe break out? I would find it interesting if the player may be sentenced to death after being arrested.

PS:
I've just seen the video. Very nice, looks like Ultima VII in 3D imo. Do you think it'd be possible to create some screenshots without the outlines for comparison?