NWN 2 Impressions

[RK47]

bought the platinum edition . will see if MOTB is worth the hype.

 

[Esquilax]

bought the platinum edition . will see if MOTB is worth the hype.

If you do a blind LP of it on the Dex, it will definitely be worth the hype.

 

[RK47]

bought the platinum edition . will see if MOTB is worth the hype.

If you do a blind LP of it on the Dex, it will definitely be worth the hype.

I really hope they fixed the camera....also high level D&D is kinda ass. At least Skyrim is pretty straightforward slashing, but the pre-buffing you got to pull off at epic levels puts me to sleep.

 

[Teepo]

Obshitian's diseased cock.

Obsidian? More like Obsidigay, amirite??

 

[metzger]

The game is good. You guys just hate everything. The character system is good, the dialogues are good, story is good, characters are majestic. Plenty of cool skill- and statchecks. Choices and fucking consequences. The trial is masterpiece. And Jerro's Haven too.

Obviously, most of the haters just couldn't stand the camera. Not enough welcoming, I see.

And yes, NWN2 has it's flaws. Some boring filler combat (mostly in the orc's caves), too long first act etc, but it's not enough to make game total shit. It's still good. Not perfect (like ummm what game?) but good.

 

[Jaesun]

The game is good. You guys just hate everything.

We do?

Joined: 25 Dec 2011

Oh... never mind.

 

[J_C]

The game is good. You guys just hate everything.

Welcome to the Codex! I see you quickly learned the first rule of the hivemind. Hate everything!

No, actually there are lots of games that are (kinda) liked on the Codex, some of them are new games. There are even some console games that are well regarded. So no, we don't hate everything.

But if this gives you comfort, I also like NWN2. Fuck the haters.

 

[Skittles]

The earth is all before me. With a heart
Joyous, nor scared at its own liberty,
I look about; and should the chosen guide
Be nothing better than a wandering cloud,
I cannot miss my way. I breathe again!

Good to be back on the Codex.

OT, I officially gave up on the NWN2 OC last week after being forced to console in, again, a Rod of Resurrection to bring back to life a plot critical character/non-character. I could have reloaded and replayed five to ten minutes of the game, but that would have sucked. That's when I realized I wasn't having fun.

Will try MotB in a few weeks, when I'm less sick of the terrible combat system.

@J_C:

...characters are majestic...Choices and fucking consequences...Not perfect (like ummm what game?) but good.

OAIO

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

Hmm, I actually enjoyed the NWN2 OC thingy despite all its apparent suckage (totally a "good for what it is" type of situation). Mostly because levelling up is fun, I guess, but that's mostly thanks to D20 and several nice prestige classes. Story-wise it's pretty much BSB, but I did get some sort of lulz from some of the party members - plus it's the first RTwP D&D cRPG in which I did not mind actually having to have a party (I usually solo, with the exception of Icewind Dale). The idea of enforced companions is idiotic, though.

There were some gems in the OC, too - like for instance having to deal with your superiors from the Shadow Thieves after you're given command over Crossroads Keep. Having to defend yourself in court was also neat, but made irrelevant due to the stupid "trial by combat" business.

 

[NewFag]

I can barely remember the NWN2 OC despite finishing it two years ago, but NWN1 OC was probably just as shit or shittier since I can't remember a thing. MotB was satisfying.

The game is good. You guys just hate everything. The character system is good, the dialogues are good, story is good, characters are majestic. Plenty of cool skill- and statchecks. Choices and fucking consequences. The trial is masterpiece. And Jerro's Haven too.

Obviously, most of the haters just couldn't stand the camera. Not enough welcoming, I see.

And yes, NWN2 has it's flaws. Some boring filler combat (mostly in the orc's caves), too long first act etc, but it's not enough to make game total shit. It's still good. Not perfect (like ummm what game?) but good.

The TNO review summed up why NWN2 is shit quite concisely.

 

[Xi]

MotB for story. SoZ for non-linear DnD setting (Liked this one the most). OC if you are a masochist.

 

[Kalin]

From what I can recall, Neverwinter Nights 2 had forced party members, bland NPCs, too linear areas and too few characters one could actually interact with, no forced-attack option, a sometimes very cumbersome interface and messy combat. Some characters were rather decent whereas others were plain awful, particularly fake-Annah and fake-Gimli. Party members could not even be killed off, they would just wake up after combat and bother you all over again. Serious thumbs down.

Mask of the Betrayer, which I never did finish, suffered from some of the same problems. As many people have pointed out before me, combat was quite chaotic and difficult to grasp, primarily due to the extreme spell effects. Forced-attack was a no-go, and areas were quite limited and often lacked non-generic characters.

Nevertheless, Mask of the Betrayer had some redeeming qualities. The dialogue was quite decent, and while I would never compare it to that of Planescape: Torment, it was at least vastly superior to that of Neverwinter Nights 2. Some of the companions were also pretty interesting, particularly One-of-Many and the celestial. I was not really all that intrigued by the story or setting, but I did subsequently see the evil spirit eater ending on youtube, and I have to agree with those who praise it. Rarely have I seen such a well-made ending cinematic.

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

Play MotB, it is much better than NWN2 OC. The camera still sucks badly.

 

[Edwin]

The camera still sucks badly.

The first time I tried the game I uninstalled it after 20 mins and didnt touch that shit at least 2 years long(mainly because of the camera).After few years,around 4 uninstalls and at least 5 in-game hours(if we can call the options menu in-game hours) I found a way to make the game at least playable.I locked the camera into 3d person view close to my chars shoulder and used only the WASD keys for movement(A and D for turning) as I remember this required remapping the keyboard too.

MotB was kinda good,OC was bearable but bloody boring(and linear which is probably worse than boring).I was not impressed but it is okayish as some kind of (very) weak Baldurs Gate substitute if you hunger for more BG but you already completed all existing main and side quests in BGT at least ten times.I didnt try Storm of Zefir because the game is just not good enough the create a second character.Creating a new expension pack which requires a new character is such a retarded idea(seriously),nobody can be that stupid.I will let it rest for a few years but I will probably get back to it sooner or later

 

[metzger]

The TNO review summed up why NWN2 is shit quite concisely.

I can't read it now, but as I recall it says nothing but the same shit we can see here: the characters are bland, the story is boring bla-bla-bla. Says much about your experience with the game, but nothing about the game itself. Why story is boring? WTF? Why characters are bland? Compared to what? BG 1-2? You kidding me.

 

[ChristofferC]

Story is boring = generic shit we have seen 100 times before. Characters are bland = very generic dwarf fighter, very generic elf thief and so on.

 

[Merkwürdigliebe]

Having spent some time with this game I've become convinced that Obsidian writes it's code with a thousand monkeys on a thousand computers and simply let them work until they produce something that vaguely resembles a working game. There is something with this game that somehow constantly causes my computer to overheat, indeed even with the lowest settings which makes it look like something from from the late nineties. I even dissembled the entire thing removing every last speck of dust in the hopes that it might help with the heat issue, but it did not. Thats with the same system that runs various new shit games without any issue what so ever. Obsidian simply can not into code.

 

[Infinitron]

Having spent some time with this game I've become convinced that Obsidian writes it's code with a thousand monkeys on a thousand computers and simply let them work until they produce something that vaguely resembles a working game. There is something with this game that somehow constantly causes my computer to overheat, indeed even with the lowest settings which makes it look like something from from the late nineties. I even dissembled the entire thing removing every last speck of dust in the hopes that it might help with the heat issue, but it did not. Thats with the same system that runs various new shit games without any issue what so ever. Obsidian simply can not into code.

True story: Alpha Protocol made me realize that my computer had a cooling problem (shitty thermal paste had worn out). Despite running at temperatures of 75C on idle, no other game made my computer consistently shut down due to overheating. Not even super-intensive Total War battles with thousands of men onscreen.

So in a way, Alpha Protocol's shitty programming helped me.

 

[Roguey]

Having spent some time with this game I've become convinced that Obsidian writes it's code with a thousand monkeys on a thousand computers and simply let them work until they produce something that vaguely resembles a working game. There is something with this game that somehow constantly causes my computer to overheat, indeed even with the lowest settings which makes it look like something from from the late nineties. I even dissembled the entire thing removing every last speck of dust in the hopes that it might help with the heat issue, but it did not. Thats with the same system that runs various new shit games without any issue what so ever. Obsidian simply can not into code.

Setting shadows to the lowest settings is the only thing I have to do to make it run well.

Also the engine they made themselves is just fine.

 

[metzger]

Story is boring = generic shit we have seen 100 times before. Characters are bland = very generic dwarf fighter, very generic elf thief and so on.

Where have we seen the same shit? You mean some little cliches like "village under attack"? It's not the whole story, you know. There's still some Great Evil, yes (plenty of games has it, actually, including Arcanum and Fallout), but it's not that straightforward in NWN2. The player is not the only person who fights it (he actually doesn't fight it until act 3), there's also githyanki and Jerro, but they don't know about each other motivations or just don't want to work together, so they fight each other and you. And then there's Luskan involvement and trial. It doesn't look very generic to me. In fact it looks much more interesting than story about some evil mage who want to ascend to godhood so he steal the divine soul of player character and then you have to chase him through the whole world.

There's no elf thief in NWN2. You mean Neeshka? Generic? WTF? Why is she generic? Because she's a thief? And likes to steal?
Khelgar yeah, maybe a bit generic, but implementation is fine, he's charismatic and has good voice-acting.
But the game also has such characters like Bishop, Sand, Jerro. And Shandra. She has a lot of great dialogues about fantasy cliche like all this "heroes"-shit and "a great deeds" they do.

 

[ChristofferC]

Where have we seen the same shit? You mean some little cliches like "village under attack"? It's not the whole story, you know. There's still some Great Evil, yes (plenty of games has it, actually, including Arcanum and Fallout), but it's not that straightforward in NWN2. The player is not the only person who fights it (he actually doesn't fight it until act 3), there's also githyanki and Jerro, but they don't know about each other motivations or just don't want to work together, so they fight each other and you. And then there's Luskan involvement and trial. It doesn't look very generic to me. In fact it looks much more interesting than story about some evil mage who want to ascend to godhood so he steal the divine soul of player character and then you have to chase him through the whole world.

There's no elf thief in NWN2. You mean Neeshka? Generic? WTF? Why is she generic? Because she's a thief? And likes to steal?
Khelgar yeah, maybe a bit generic, but implementation is fine, he's charismatic and has good voice-acting.
But the game also has such characters like Bishop, Sand, Jerro. And Shandra. She has a lot of great dialogues about fantasy cliche like all this "heroes"-shit and "a great deeds" they do.

Yeah Neeshka.

 

[Wise Emperor]

I don't know why people whine so much about camera. Its shitty but if you aren't easily loosing focus three year old you can get used to it.
I just don't get "fuck the story, fuck the choices, it got shitty camera, I won't play it". People can get used to Arcanum combat so what's the problem with NWN2 camera? It isn't constantly rotating, it get messy during combat and you have active pause. You don't need some super brain and chimpanzee dexterity to master the interface.

Why so picky? If you don't like the game just say it, don't look for some absurd explanation.

 

[Vault Dweller]

In fact it looks much more interesting than story about some evil mage who want to ascend to godhood so he steal the divine soul of player character and then you have to chase him through the whole world.

Just because the story is [allegedly] better than BG2's doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Skittles]

Where have we seen the same shit? You mean some little cliches like "village under attack"? It's not the whole story, you know. There's still some Great Evil, yes (plenty of games has it, actually, including Arcanum and Fallout), but it's not that straightforward in NWN2. The player is not the only person who fights it (he actually doesn't fight it until act 3), there's also githyanki and Jerro, but they don't know about each other motivations or just don't want to work together, so they fight each other and you. And then there's Luskan involvement and trial. It doesn't look very generic to me. In fact it looks much more interesting than story about some evil mage who want to ascend to godhood so he steal the divine soul of player character and then you have to chase him through the whole world.

There's no elf thief in NWN2. You mean Neeshka? Generic? WTF? Why is she generic? Because she's a thief? And likes to steal?
Khelgar yeah, maybe a bit generic, but implementation is fine, he's charismatic and has good voice-acting.
But the game also has such characters like Bishop, Sand, Jerro. And Shandra. She has a lot of great dialogues about fantasy cliche like all this "heroes"-shit and "a great deeds" they do.

Neeshka struck me as kind of a rip off of Annah, from PS:T, but maybe they evolved from some common ancestor, I don't know. To be honest, I don't need every character in a video game to be startlingly original. What bugged me is the shitty writing. It's the terrible unfunny jokes--"Haha, every time I see you something burns down, but seriously we're friends"--it's the painfully bad 'flirting' and awful execution of any semblance of a personality--leaving aside "I'm a dwarf, I like fighting," "I'm a druid, I don't like cities," and "I'm a thief, I like money," there's "I'm cynical, but I have a heart of gold," "I'm evil, I treat women badly and I'm going to betray you, hyuck, hycuk," etc.--and it's the ultimately 'gamey' aspect of all companion interaction that annoy me so much.

Say the right thing and they blush and guffaw over you, say the wrong thing and they hate you. If this were a puzzle, it could be fun. It's not and it's not. If the writing for the PC were more logical, allowing you to explain your decisions to your companions or at least face a Charisma check, it might be a good roleplaying tool--instead, all I can role play is a manipulative sociopath or socially tactless nimrod. If attitudes were more nuanced than a simple love/hate meter, it could at least be something interesting to see unfold as you play the game, rather than something you're either winning at or failing at. Maybe the worst offense is the way that companions will overreact because you choose to say option B instead of option A, because you're not a bloodthirsty monster, even though they both lead to the same outcome (usually combat, 'cause this is NWN2...).

And that isn't to say that a game has to do one of these things to be good. It's just that NWN2 kept forcing interaction with these poorly written and poorly executed characters on me. Kind of like the combat.

@Wise Emperor: You're right, the camera sucks and is in fact kind of broken on my rig, but it only takes twenty minutes to get mostly used to it. But it was annoying and hopefully no devs will try to imitate it if it gets bitched about.

 

[Tigranes]

NWN2 is basically the Disney's Channel version of a classic grand D&D CRPG story. It really is about playing a typical rags to riches, peasant boy to hero story from start to finish throughout a long ('epic') campaign, one that avoids facepalmy plot loopholes for the most part, but one that also makes no secret about what it is. In addition, it works to keep the general tone of the campaign pretty light, of an "Hey I'm on an Adventure" type - thus Khelgar as a cheerful guffawing dwarf whose violent streak is of the Tom and Jerry style, Neeshka with the whole "hey actually we're all good buddies and I'm just being snarky" deal, etc. Obviously it matches with NWN/2's rather generic D&D visual style, and of course the whole campaign is designed that way too.

Funnily enough, I enjoyed the campaign when it came out, I think because I was really hungry for exactly a typical D&D campaign and bloody sick of this Star Wars bullshit. If you don't take it seriously (because there's nothing in there worth taking seriously), and treat it as a pretty well made D&D campaign, it's worth your time. The only major dealbreakers are (1) if you're sick of such typical campaigns at the moment, (2) if you really can't stand the engine, (3) if you have a low tolerance for that kind of cheerful writing. (I don't think it's as bad as Disney or hi-teen, though... more like, can you stand the writing on your latest Hollywood blockbuster targeted at a 13-28 audience? Because it's a bit better than that, IMO.) But the trial in particular is really good - it's a moment in RPG history since we haven't seen anything like that in the last 10 years, and it's a very good CRPG experience. The stronghold stuff isn't bad either, and certainly, in execution, different from your average CRPG these days.

Oh, and if someone wants to argue about 'original' / 'generic', etc., the point isn't really whether something's been 'done before', it's more about how creative it is, and what kind of impact it has upon delivery. Shandra/Ammon Jerro was arguably the most serious and potentially emotive part of the entire campaign, and actually, Shandra had pretty good writing that allowed her to be more than a terrible "Oh I'm a farmer and I just want a simple life" walking cliche. But the fact that you have to freaking take Shandra for half of Chapter 2 or whatever really makes you hate her - I don't know about anyone else, but I was actually so glad to see her die so I wouldn't have to have her taking up arse-space in the party all the time. Ammon Jerro is pretty interesting, but inevitably fits in with the generally light mood, IMO, and it's hard for me to take his 'I gotta do what I gotta do' schtick too seriously what with Sand and Khelgar and everyone quipping around him. Strictly speaking NWN2 isn't entirely unoriginal or generic, but it has a lot of generic elements, and especially a very generic style and tone that dominates the campaign and especially appears to dictate the writing for all characters except Shandra and Ammon Jerro.