NWN2 (or dnd 3.5 ed) multiclassing

[fastjack]

i was wondering if anyone could point me toward a page that has multiclassing suggestions/advice for nwn2 or dnd 3.5 in general. Alternatively, can anyone give me any such advice here?

With Storm of Zehir coming out i'm kinda thinking about what my party of four will consist of. Right now i'm thinking swashbuckler/thief, sorcerer, fighter, and fighter/cleric so any tips you could give for those combos in particular would be great. Also I seem to remember hearing that you could also recruit 2 npcs in game with the new expansion pack, can anyone give any info there may be out there about the types of npcs we may get?

One last note, i did try googling a little for some info but not much came up and I'm interested in you alls opinions as it pertains to the crpg in particular.

edit: One of the things that may be confusing me is that i never thought of multiclassing in the past as i thought it meant a level 4 character would have to distribute his 4 levels equally across his classes, i.e. lvl 2 fighter lvl 2 thief. Then i was playing baldurs gate 2 and noticed that multiclassed characters werent stuck at low level progression charts, i.e. my lvl 13 party would have multiclassed characters at like lvls 11 or 12 in both classes. But a brief look around makes me think third edition does multiclassing the way i originally thoought it was handled. If it does, is it still worth doing? I hope that made sense, thank you in advance for any help.

 

[Jasede]

Depends on what you want.

If you don't want anything:

1 Fighter
1 Rogue
1 Cleric
1 Wizard

The only multiclasses I would advise in that there perfect party is 1 Rogue level for every 2 Fighter levels, to increase damage against most foes and provide the all-helpful Evasion.

Aside from that, multi-classing easily ends up in powergaming.

Let me stress it again, I don't recommend having a fighter/cleric. Cleric spells will help you lots since you seem new to this. But if you really want to multi-class, tell me some more specific things what each of your guys should be good at.

 

[JrK]

Doing some brainstorming now:
Pure Cleric
Fighter/Wizard-> Eldritch knight (crafting goodness + uber AC)
Rogue/Ranger for epic scouting
Sorc for blasting fun

 

[Texas Red]

Druid seems better than cleric in NWN 2. They have ridiculous fire power while also capable healers.

 

[Jasede]

I haven't played NWN 2, but clerics can HEAL SPONTANOUSLY and get Heal earlier. Druids also can't normally raise dead.

 

[fastjack]

re

i guess my main aim is to be able to have a cool dexterity based fighter (swashbuckler) to try out that class without losing my beloved huge half-orc halberd type fighter. The fighter/cleric concept comes from anomen seeming like a good character build in bg2 and wanting to have room for a heavily armored/shielded dwarf who can wade in to the fray. And id like to keep the basic party balance of fighter/thief/cleric/wizard.[/quote]

 

[Texas Red]

I haven't played NWN 2, but clerics can HEAL SPONTANOUSLY and get Heal earlier. Druids also can't normally raise dead.

Druids can spontaneously summon stuff. Personally I don't think it matters since Favored Soul and Spirit Shaman cast Cleric and Druid spells like sorcerers. Having some massive damage every spell level is a lot more useful than getting heal a spell level faster *shrugs*

 

[themadhatter114]

Gamefaqs has several good builds. Of interest to you in particular would be, I believe, a good explanation of how to build a good battle cleric and some fighter/weapon master builds. Also a handy FAQ for character building in general, and plenty of other stuff.

I think you should check the MotB Gamefaqs page because it typically has the stuff updated to include epic levels and better planning for the earlier levels to compensate for things you can choose later.

Also check out http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Character_builds which has tons of power builds for several types of characters.

 

[Jasede]

I think you'll kill a lot of joy by following these guides.

You'll have more fun trying out what feels right, and living with the mistakes.

 

[fastjack]

I think you'll kill a lot of joy by following these guides.

You'll have more fun trying out what feels right, and living with the mistakes.

i think i would want to kinda 'wing' it. I mean if i knew before each and every level what i was going to (or even 'had to' pick) it would take aome of the fun of an rpg out of it (notably the leveling up part).

i am just interested in whether or not its really viable i guess, such as whether or not a swashbuckler/thief, in your opinions, would get high enough thieving skills to keep my party from feeling like its missing a piece, y'know?

 

[Jasede]

If you pick a thief/rogue level every second level-up, you should be able to get by. The thing is just that a pure rogue would be able to focus more easily on all the dialogue skills in addition to the essential disarm trap / search / pick locks / sneak / and whatnot.

 

[themadhatter114]

Also, you can save up to 5 skill points each level, so if you want a multi-classed rogue but only want to focus on thieving skills, you can have up to 5 skills that don't lag behind and the rest will be reasonably okay. Even better if some of your class skills from your other class or prestige classes match up with your rogue skills.

A rogue gets 8 + INT bonus and a ranger gets 6 + INT bonus so you could level up hide and move silently, even craft trap and set trap, or spot or search or listen or whatever, every single level. Then you could maybe save enough each level to keep open lock and disable device right there with the rest. And if you take the Able Learner feat then essentially all of your class skills from both classes become class skills no matter which one you are leveling up at the time (plus the rest of the skills come at normal cost but can only be half as high as your class skills).

Some of the better guides on GameFAQs give lots of great info about which feats are useful and which ones don't work as well as you'd think for different builds. The ranger, bard, and paladin guides are particularly helpful. The actual sample builds don't come until the end of the FAQ.

 

[Maia]

Druid seems better than cleric in NWN 2. They have ridiculous fire power while also capable healers.

Nope, not even close. Summoning is rather useless in NwN2 because summons stay for a very short time and one can't direct them in any way. Druid's shape-shifting abilities are so horribly bugged as to become nearly useless. And Druid buffs are much worse than cleric ones. Nope, Clerics and Favored Souls are much more powerful.

To the OP: there are very good class and feat descriptions at NwN2 wikia. And builds if you are interested.

Anyway, it is a waste to multi-class Cleric with a fighter, particularly since the expansion will only go until level 15 or so. Clerics are plenty powerful and have a great prestige class in the Stormlord. Buffed Cleric/Stormlord is a complete beast in melee.

Arcane spellcasters have a very good prestige class Arcane Scholar. Sorcerer in particular profits from taking it. There are also good "fighter/mage" multi-classes - Paladin/Sorcerer/ Eldritch Knight, Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight, in this expansion also Swashbuckler (3)/ditto.

Sure, multi-class rogues work very well. Swashbuckler/Rogue/ Invisible Blade is going to be a pretty popular combo for roguish characters. You'll have more than enough skill points, BTW, since Rogue has 8 per level + Int modifier (and you'll want 14-16 in Int) and the other 2 classes 4 and 6 respectively. That's more than enough to top the most important Rogue skills, including at least 1 dialog skill.
Another good rogue combo is a Str ranger/rogue.

Finally, a Str Bard with the Curse Song feat is also a very solid and fun character.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

I haven't played NWN 2, but clerics can HEAL SPONTANOUSLY and get Heal earlier. Druids also can't normally raise dead.

Okay. Well since you can rest so easily in NWN2 and both the OC and MOTB are pretty easy anyway, you don't really need a healer, nevermind what's better.

 

[Jasede]

Well, resting too often isn't very realistic, isn't it? You shouldn't rest more often than once in 24 in-game hours. And only when you're in a safe location.

 

[deuxhero]

The swashbuckler has acess to the daring outlaw feat, if that is implmented in SoZ, it is great if you mutliclass with rogue (the feat makes swashbuckler levels stack with rogue levels for sneak attack gains and grace/AC bonuses).

You can also take able learner (human only IIRC, but pretty much every non human race is inferior to humans) for dealing with skills.

Also, don't multiclass casters unless 1.they are paladins/rangers (who have sucky spellcasting anyways, so you don't miss anything) or have a 1/1 spellcasting progression increase (the only exception to this would be fighter mages, but they best serve as 5th wheels, like a bard does)

 

[Maia]

You can also take able learner (human only IIRC, but pretty much every non human race is inferior to humans) for dealing with skills.

Heh, no and arguably no. Xenophobia of 3.5 edition doesn't go so far as to make Able Learner human only - it is open to all races. And arguably, races with stat bonuses have certain advantages, although extra feat and extra skill points are hard to beat.

(the only exception to this would be fighter mages, but they best serve as 5th wheels, like a bard does)

Well, IMHO a Str Bard makes an excellent frontline character - in fact to make the best of the Curse Song he has to be in the thick of things, and buffed fighter/mages can hold their own in the front as well.

 

[Murk]

in NWN 2 there is a prestige class for everything you wanted to do, so instead of multi-classing, just pick that prestige class and stick with it

swashbuckler - > duelist

fighter/cleric - > war priest (a 10 cleric/10 war priest, is effectively a 15 cleric/10 fighter)

as for a fighter thief.... why? thieves get decent enough combat abilities and if you pump their dex they make for great archers, but if you gimp their thieving skills they're just too crippled.

also jasede is right, in terms of divine spell casting a cleric beats a druid, ESPECIALLY if you take the healing domain which gives you stronger healing spells early and auto-empowers all of your healing spells (even the spontaneous ones), and since there aren't that many good domains, definitely worth it to take 'healing' (I think magic is the other good domain)

druids get some better attack spells but once you hit the high levels cleric's have enough fire power to compensate (implosion, the fire storm thing, etc.). Druid's do get wileshape though and that can be helpful once you get elemental shapes but i think at that level you shouldn't have any issues with combat to warrant the need.

EDIT: Is the actual swashbuckler class in storm of zehir? i don't have the expansion (motb) so i don't know about the new classes that were added there-from.

 

[Murk]

on the actual mechanics of multi-classing, since you seem to have asked how it works

multi-classing in 3.5 is nothing at all like 2.0, all races function the same way (no more dual-classing and multi-classing being different).

You start off in one class and can, at level up, choose to take a level in another class. You suffer an experience penalty if one of your classes is higher than your other class unless one of those classes is your race's favored class. Humans and half-elves have any class as their favored so in cases of 2-class builds they suffer none, as their highest level class is treated as their favored class.

wood elf can be a rogue/ranger with no penalty, but a half orc sorcerer/cleric will have a penalty if one class is higher than the other by a certain amount of levels (I think 4).

prestige classes don't count in terms of xp penalty, so a human can be a rogue/ranger/assasin and not suffer any penalties

so think this, a human that is rogue 6/ranger 6/assasin 6 is fine

but a human that is rogue 2/ bard 3/ fighter 7/ barbarian 8 will suffer xp penalty as his favored class applies to his highest level class (barbarian) which leaves the cleft of his second highest, the fighter, far too big from his other classes.

if he was a rogue2/bard3/fighter3/barbarian8 then still no xp penalty

some classes when multi-classed lose abilities because you have to pick the right class when multi-classing, others have alignment restrictions

spell casters are usually a poor choice for multi-classing because they end up losing caster levels which are absolutely crucial, rare exception would be eldtrich night (lose a caster level, gain two feats, full BAB, better hp, worth it) and the arcane trickster which retains full caster progression but requires rogue abilities which means you'll ahve to lose a level or three of wizard/sorcerer to achieve it.

if you don't mind the xp penalty, you can multi-class a level into everything if you so wanted.

having said that, some classes lead themselves to prestige-classing or multi-classing more easily than others.

Prestige-classes usually require you to know what to do at character creation, but classes like fighter, rogue or barbarian can easily mix with other classes that they compliment well with. Taking rogue at first level would also yielda lot of skill points in many different areas, as well as some useful weapon proficiencies depending on what build you're aiming for.

 

[deuxhero]

in NWN 2 there is a prestige class for everything you wanted to do, so instead of multi-classing, just pick that prestige class and stick with it

swashbuckler - > duelist

fighter/cleric - > war priest (a 10 cleric/10 war priest, is effectively a 15 cleric/10 fighter)

as for a fighter thief.... why? thieves get decent enough combat abilities and if you pump their dex they make for great archers, but if you gimp their thieving skills they're just too crippled.

also jasede is right, in terms of divine spell casting a cleric beats a druid, ESPECIALLY if you take the healing domain which gives you stronger healing spells early and auto-empowers all of your healing spells (even the spontaneous ones), and since there aren't that many good domains, definitely worth it to take 'healing' (I think magic is the other good domain)

druids get some better attack spells but once you hit the high levels cleric's have enough fire power to compensate (implosion, the fire storm thing, etc.). Druid's do get wileshape though and that can be helpful once you get elemental shapes but i think at that level you shouldn't have any issues with combat to warrant the need.

EDIT: Is the actual swashbuckler class in storm of zehir? i don't have the expansion (motb) so i don't know about the new classes that were added there-from.

except that duelist sucks in NWN2 (and is pretty bad for offence in PnP), due to the stupid implmentation of parry, why they added this useless crap over defensive fighting... I can understand NWN1 needed a skill sponge for fighters, but now fighters have Lore (spellcaster only in NWN IIRC) intimidate and craft skills, so it doesn't need to be here (Also can't tell when they slipt intimidate into taunt)

Also, to the above, no you can't acctualy, NWN2 limits you to 4 classes per character, makeing that imposible.

 

[Murk]

4 class limit? gay. that's a rule that shouldn't matter since you'd be really bordering on "wtf" to go past 4, but eh.

I agree, duelist does suck, but it is ultimately a "swashbuckler" type.

- go dual wielding ranger i guess

 

[deuxhero]

Youring thinking of the 4th edition, 3.5 ranger isn't that great (even in PnP).

 

[Norfleet]

I haven't played NWN 2, but clerics can HEAL SPONTANOUSLY and get Heal earlier. Druids also can't normally raise dead.

Raising dead has no use at all since characters in NWN2 are immortal and simply get up again after the battle is over. "I got better!"

 

[Shoelip]

Actually raise dead's cast time has been lowered to like, one round or something, and of course like all NWN2 spells there's no material component so it's fairly useful in long battles.

 

[Murk]

Youring thinking of the 4th edition, 3.5 ranger isn't that great (even in PnP).

hardly, a dual-wielding tiefling ranger in n2n oc is a death machine, AC isn't even an issue (mithral +5 breastplate is basically +15 to AC if your dex is high enough, not even counting the extra AC you can get from other items and feats)

revive was mostly pointless to me, but can easily lead your party to getting wiped out if your caster dies and you're up against a BBEG type of enemy - or certain battles that require a specific party member to do a special trigger, and said party member bites the dust

however, i think having a scroll or two is enough, you don't actually need to dedicate a slot to it at all times