serch
Magister
FALLOUT 3: JUST FOR TEH LOLLERZ
While I agree that Morrowind and Oblivion modders do a much better job than Bethesda, that's with the creative freedom to do what they want.WittyName said:One of the main reasons I disliked Oblivion....DarkUnderlord said:...Forget about memorable locations that make you go "wow" that are nice and big and have lots to explore. Oh no, you'll be dealing with over 500 locations no more than 5 minutes apart that are all of 3 rooms big and have no meaning what-so-ever.
More on topic, as someone noted above, the Oblivion modders actually produced better results than the staffers themselves so this is ultimately a good thing.
Sure, but that's a false choice.Chinese Jetpilot said:...they're just led by those who believe in mainstreamed game design. Who doesn't think Fallout 3 will be closer to Oblivion than Fallout 1/2 (game engine aside)? And honestly, why wouldn't they?
galsiah said:...snip
galsiah said:What annoys me is cases where there's no mainstream vs codex tradeoff, and solving a problem really is simple. Even then they frequently can't be bothered to do things properly - simply because most gamers wouldn't care.
Human Shield said:Oh look an abandoned military base... and another... and another... oh look I killed the mutant leader at level 1.
galsiah said:Sure, but that's a false choice.Chinese Jetpilot said:...they're just led by those who believe in mainstreamed game design. Who doesn't think Fallout 3 will be closer to Oblivion than Fallout 1/2 (game engine aside)? And honestly, why wouldn't they?
It assumes that you can't make a game with mainstream appeal which also exhibits good design.
In some areas there are clear mainstream vs. codex tradeoffs. In those areas it's to be expected that they'll go for the mainstream. There are also many areas where a touch of good codex-pleasing design wouldn't bother mainstream gamers at all.
For instance, take the issue of coherent dungeon placement, design and significance.
It's not something the mainstream gamer cares too much about - though many would consider it a plus. It's certainly something that can be done properly without sacrificing any mainstream appeal.
All that's needed is a bit of thought to answer the following kind of questions: Why is it there? Why is it set out as it is? How did the inhabitants (if any) come to be there? How do they live now? How do they fit in with the surrounding area? What is their attitude towards passers-by? Towards the player character? How does any of this relate to quests / plot?...
Compared to the time taken in designing layout and models etc., the above would be insignificant. Personally I think I'd find it helpful as input for dungeon design decisions - it's easier to decide how things should be laid out if you can say why they're like that.
This isn't a mainstream vs. "hardcore" tradeoff - it's something that Bethesda simply haven't bothered to get right.
There are areas - e.g. character creation/levelling, levelled opposition -, where I think their design sucks horribly, but there might be an argument in terms of satisfying the mainstream gamer (though I'm not sure I buy it).
Other areas - e.g. consistently idiotic, broken economy - just imply a "Sure, the world is total nonsense, but seriously - who cares!? For us, immersion is about watching grass blow in the wind." approach to design.
Jim Kata said:Human Shield said:Oh look an abandoned military base... and another... and another... oh look I killed the mutant leader at level 1.
It's all set in one city, too...how many abandoned military bases and subterrainian areas can there be?
Jim Kata said:Human Shield said:Oh look an abandoned military base... and another... and another... oh look I killed the mutant leader at level 1.
It's all set in one city, too...how many abandoned military bases and subterrainian areas can there be?
micmu said:And the end result were 200 unrelated copy/paste dungeons with randomized PClevel+C monster/loot spawn spots.
MacD said:...but that costs money.
Dregornn@ESF said:Hey guys leave spot open ill be available in a few years. Im only 14 and im making mods and already doin 3d meshing with 3d studio and such. Ill be looking for this kind of job in a few years.