Oblivion? Nah thanks!

[voodoo1man]

But let's play make-believe for a second, and imagine there's a girl willing to enter into a relationship with me.

Yeah, that does strain the imagination a little bit. Maybe we can LARP it?

What is with all the gratuituously puerile pederasty/paedophilia fetishism running rampant on this board? Is it meant to shock?

Get back to knitting and let the men talk, sweet cheeks.

- level scaling, even if this system has big flaws (especially the fact that the MQ is more easy at lvl 1 than at lvl 20), I really prefer this challenge compared to the unchallenging Morrowind. its like DF.

Oh boy, I can imagine it now. Level-scaled cliffracers.

Based on all the things I've read here at RPGCodex, for now I will do what Twinfalls suggests and wait until gameplay-fixing mods come out before I get Oblivion.

 

[Rat Keeng]

I'll choose the former - as BETH has shown me at the very least they know how to craft interesting quests for the main even sections of the game.

They've shown you that? Well, I suppose you're lucky to be privvy to some of the cut material that didn't make it into the game, but for the rest of us who're stuck with the retail version, the quests aren't very good.

...having any real talent in magic isnt needed to be Arch Mage.

That's true. In Oblivion, you don't need any real talent in magic to be Arch-mage. The question is, why? If it was somehow incorporated into the game, that it's just a bunch of political hooey, and you merely have to grease the proper crevices to advance in the guild, then it'd at least be somewhat consistent and justified. At the moment, it just comes off as a sort of ploy, to avoid limiting anything for the "freedom-lovers", that make up Beth's target audience.

Plus, for the one or two NPCs who slipped into the guild with little magical knowledge, everyone else in the guild are more or less accomplished mages and alchemists, and they frequently talk about practise and training, as if magic was somehow a requirement for members of the mages' guild.

 

[Section8]

Or is the Mages Guild comprised pretty much of fetch, kill, or fetch-and-kill quests, and all the quests can be done in any way you like?

The ones I've done. OH NOES SPOILERS!

- Swim in a well and retrieve a Ring of Burden that weighs 150 (units) even when not worn, meaning that characters with high strength are rewarded.

- Talk to some "pranksters" and steal a book. Thiefish skills are more appropriate than magical skills.

- Persuade a bunch of people to get some bird her magic staff back. I found Speechcraft more useful than charm spells.

- Serve as bait and kill a mage. Honestly, for this one you don't even need to do anything, just let your escorts do the job and then get in a fight with any passing guardsmen.

- This one would be one of my favourites:

Guildmaster: <mage> is in town, and we kicked her out of the guild. Find out what she wants.

<walk outside>

<mage>: Hey, you're from the mages guild aren't you? I bet you're different from all the rest so I'll tell you exactly what I want. Get me a book.

...and then there's a dungeon crawl to get the book.

It's probably worse than your initial assessment. In most cases, if there's magery to be done, it's less effective than just "brute forcing" AND, you'll often be given scrolls, just in case you aren't actually skilled enough to cast spells. Very silly indeed.

 

[Tal]

I didn't feel like a mage doing any of the mage quests, like I didn't feel like a thief during the thieves guild. I mean seriously, I'm a thief, and you want me to fight my way through a dungeon packed to the brim to enemies? When all else fails, Oblivion just throws you into another dungeon, and it gets boring fast.

 

[kris]

Yes the mobs/gear scale with you - meaning youll always have a challenging fight, and will never be able to "power-level" -

Sure you can powerlevel. you only need not to advance levels and then you will get high skills but all enemies is still on level 1. That way you have made the most powerful character. I am sure there are other ways to powerlevel, but I suspect you don't know what the concept is.

 

[Nog Robbin]

Don't fancy scouring the wilderness for the X of Y? Turn down the quest and do one from another NPC that has you protecting a Guild-House. Don't fancy that? Turn it down, pick another.

So THAT is more realistic than you turning down the request of a superior. Its the Mages guild - not a Temp Service.

And because these are procedurally generated -

Now folks are just tossing "procedurally generated" around to sound "cutting edge". Its still randomly generated content, and sloppy content at that. Instead of focusing on quest lines that actually make sense and make the player feel as if they are part of something big - we'll just let them complete X number of quests that the computer controls, and let the cherry pick which quests sound "keen" to them.

I'll choose the former - as BETH has shown me at the very least they know how to craft interesting quests for the main even sections of the game.

Total bollocks. The biggest failing with the guilds in general are the limited number of people giving quests. Instead of having one or maybe two people per guild giving out quests, let them all give out quests. Refusing a quest from someone (or rather refusing a chore from someone) way lower you in their opinion, but could raise you in others (think Ajiira and Galbedir - how come you could only help Ajiira out? How come Galbedir didn't have quests for you?). Raising in ranks in a guild should be based on doing things that forward the guild and your appropriate skills.

I agree with Override on this - you should be able to turn down quests. It's a roleplaying game - suppose a quest doesn't fit with your characters morals? To not be able to advance because of one quest from another lowly member is pretty crap to say the least.

Also, having generic "quests" (again, more like chores) could mean other members could do them - they all have an aim (go somewhere, kill something/collect something) - surely that could be handled as an RAI package. That could even lead to proper battles within the guild to rise through the ranks. Of course, it could still be weighted such that the NPC's don't actively pursue many quests - but at least it would look like the guild is active other than for yourself.

 

[Section8]

Of course, it could still be weighted such that the NPC's don't actively pursue many quests - but at least it would look like the guild is active other than for yourself.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen a "fellow adventurer" AT ALL during their time in Cyrodiil? Aside from specifically placed "Dead Treasure Hunters" I've not seen anything...

 

[4too]

Lone Fly in The Immersion

Lone Fly in The Immersion




"“We live, as we dream - alone”". Joseph Conrad, "Heart Of Darkness".



Section8:

Speaking of which, has anyone seen a "fellow adventurer" AT ALL during their time in Cyrodiil? Aside from specifically placed "Dead Treasure Hunters" I've not seen anything...

Fellow adventurers?
Like the competing party in that Wizardry title?
Like the evil party with all the phat lewt in one [both?] of the BG's?
Like the child killer - bounty hunter - parties in Fo 1 + 2 , with all that phat loot?

No?

No, that's old, worn out, empirical think. In Oblivion: No limits to test. In Oblivion: Places to go and Radiant AI to see. In Oblivion: No upsetting challenge of playing with -- others.
That is not the politically correct, double think, demanded by the game entertainment industrial complex.

Consider the possibility that it would complicate the game mechanics to sim adult concepts like ""sharing"'. Takes too much time to hack and bug fix. Where's the profit?

The purported target demographic demands livin' large, pimping their ride, and whacking as the absolute in communication skill.
I'm not saying any one actually bows to this profile. There are 'probably - no - absolutes. BUT. Some one thinks so, and spends the millions of dollars on products that conform to this me-first composite.

Adult Concepts of social interaction. It's probably too complex to mimc in C ++, may be beyond the code and social experience of the entire game entertainment industrial complex, and UNMARKETABLE. Simple social transactions, that any one toilet trained could negotiate with better than average success, are not marketable.

Consequences for the player's actions, or non actions, might pop the illusion of escapist immersion.
Social simulations involving more than the game buyer's ego [Id}, might burst the balloon of denial.
Are we being served? Are we being entertained? How often does repetitive motion, cyclic game-play dim the distractions of life, and we achieve the nirvana, peak experience, of trance fantasy world immersion.


I don't think I'm on the same page as Beth's target demographic. I'm not compelled to bliss out on floating a view window through simulated woods. Did that on the Amiga ,, some Euro title with 'pretty 64 color impressionistic woods and fields ... birds tweeting, clouds floating, .. why do it again and again and again ... oh, got a CD player to ghost through ''Mist'', so i NEED duo card SLI to sink to nitrogen toxic depths of immersion.

Leave me the option and I'll consider the game. Maybe we are talking about the same game.

Is there a Beth apologist in the crowd? A role playing champion who can step into that composite character? Don;t need a low post count - to emulate a third party - visitation that preaches ""Love Beth and see ... Patrick Stewart.""

Tell me ... blessed blissful one.

What is the DRUG of preference for Oblivion? 'Shrooms , Ecstasy, Acid, PROZAC?

What mood alterers does one need to pump a FP-whacker of 80 to 85 percent quality [until patched and mod-ed] into a silicone media spokes-model of 95 to 100%.

It is a pretty product. There is a game included. Why hide it's accomplishments behind the smoke of superlative absolutes?

Why the mind altering superlatives? Something ''shallow'' to hide?

Of all the flaws, it's denial that this title may depend on to endure the bliss ninny immersion. Once the eye candy is tasted, chewed, digested, farted, pooped, -- fish food -- cat food -- chinese take out -- on one's table top -- it's ready to recycle.. lot of work for just an illusion,
just pretending.


Mod's to the rescue. The real drama continues.
Is it in Beth's mission statement: It's up to the mod-ers to role play as Beth dev's and flesh out dysfunctional game mechanics?
Seems to be a modus operandi, the ol' m.o., appears to SELL, so that's justification enough.
The real drama continues. Mod's to the rescue.



So whack a mole and level up.

Whack a bigger mole twice - block - strafe - be shot in the ass by a Radiant AI archer - block, whack bigger mole and level up.

Win the cherry, and like in Pac Man ... munch on ... bold adventurer .. alone in the deep ...






4too

 

[bryce777]

Of course, it could still be weighted such that the NPC's don't actively pursue many quests - but at least it would look like the guild is active other than for yourself.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen a "fellow adventurer" AT ALL during their time in Cyrodiil? Aside from specifically placed "Dead Treasure Hunters" I've not seen anything...

Well, to be fair adventurers should be exceedingly rare. In DnD and especiallyt he forgotten realms every other person alive is either a mage, thief, or paladin, but logic would say these types would be very much the exception in any coherent world.

 

[ANDS!]

They've shown you that? Well, I suppose you're lucky to be privvy to some of the cut material that didn't make it into the game, but for the rest of us who're stuck with the retail version, the quests aren't very good.

Now see this is where we get into territory called "Opinion Land". Youll notice I didnt say theyve shown the you or that guy, or dude in the corner - my comment was just about my impression with the game and the 40 or so quests I've done so far. Some have been clunkers, most are enjoyable and fun. If they arent - return the game. Swap it for something else.

Sure you can powerlevel.

And then you procede to demonstrate you either haven't played the game - or are talking out of your ass. Though your level in skills will rise - the attributes that go with them will not. So - while you may be able to meet the proficiency requirements of say FINGER OF THE MOUNTAIN - because you DONT level-up, you wont have a magic pool large enough to do anything with it. Whooooo! What fun.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen a "fellow adventurer" AT ALL during their time in Cyrodiil?

Yes. Ive seen them in one on one skirmishes with bandits, as well as large groups of factions going head to head in caves. I've also seen guards from the same city arrow dueling - so there must be something in the air.

 

[Section8]

But let's play make-believe for a second, and imagine there's a girl willing to enter into a relationship with me.

Yeah, that does strain the imagination a little bit. Maybe we can LARP it?

As long as 4too is my "lady" in waiting, I'm a happy man. Love your work, 4too, you very wacky character, you.

What is with all the gratuituously puerile pederasty/paedophilia fetishism running rampant on this board? Is it meant to shock?

Get back to knitting and let the men talk, sweet cheeks.

You should write for whichever advertising agency handles Bond films these days. Example:

James Bond: Dink, say good-bye to Felix.

Dink: Hmm?

James Bond: Uh, man-talk.

[He pivots her around and slaps her butt. She walks off.]

Well, to be fair adventurers should be exceedingly rare. In DnD and especiallyt he forgotten realms every other person alive is either a mage, thief, or paladin, but logic would say these types would be very much the exception in any coherent world.

Oh, I agree, but I seem to remember Bethesda touting such things as "watch your guild members advance alongside you!" And the idea of other adventurers being about the place for you to run into. It's not so much whether the idea is good or not, it's just another broken "promise."

Still it does surprise me that Ayleid ruins within a stone's throw of various major cities haven't been picked clean during the many thousands of years they've been there.

 

[Nog Robbin]

Of course, it could still be weighted such that the NPC's don't actively pursue many quests - but at least it would look like the guild is active other than for yourself.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen a "fellow adventurer" AT ALL during their time in Cyrodiil? Aside from specifically placed "Dead Treasure Hunters" I've not seen anything...

Well, to be fair adventurers should be exceedingly rare. In DnD and especiallyt he forgotten realms every other person alive is either a mage, thief, or paladin, but logic would say these types would be very much the exception in any coherent world.

But then you have a thieves guild, a mages guild, as assassins guild, a fighters guild - how often do you come across guild members actually doing anything - apart from on the odd co-operative/competetive quest? From what I've seen so far (and heard) you don't. Other guild members are only there to hang out at the guilds and give you - the only active member - things to do.

Yes. Ive seen them in one on one skirmishes with bandits, as well as large groups of factions going head to head in caves. I've also seen guards from the same city arrow dueling - so there must be something in the air.

A couple of prescripted events and guard RAI (retarded artificial intelligence) in operation. General guild members - unless they are *scripted* to be on a particular quest - don't actually do anything. Again, so much for the hype during the development.

 

[suibhne]

Yes. Ive seen them in one on one skirmishes with bandits, as well as large groups of factions going head to head in caves. I've also seen guards from the same city arrow dueling - so there must be something in the air.

Yep. It's called shitty AI. Check out this movie for a larger-scale example.

As for friendly adventurers, I've only found one living example, an adventuring orc in a goblins' den. I've put 90 hours into the game and have explored over 25 dungeons, and I haven't encountered any parties of adventurers as you claim. If they're out there, they're incredibly rare.

Anyway, since you requested I address the "meat" of your response on the last page, here you go: I haven't finished all of the Mages Guild quests, but at this point I've seen nothing that supports your point and much that refutes it. The only mages described as less than highly competent are mages who pointedly aren't admitted to the Arcane University (e.g., the really nice but not so skilled group at Cheydinhaal). There's also the guild head in Bruma, but much is made of the fact that she doesn't deserve her position. The mages at the actual University are all presented as highly competent, and at no point is there the merest whiff of a suggestion that the position of Arch-Mage is purely political and doesn't necessarily require any magical ability at all.

All of the stuff about grammar was a farce, btw. If you'd like to compare serious writing samples rather than bitchy internet forum posts, maybe we can do that sometime over a snifter of absinthe. But the fact that you denigrated my perspective by charging that one of my phrases was "clumsily written", even tho it was shot through with childishly-obvious hallmarks of e-internets self-parody...well, that really just made you look like a tool.

 

[suibhne]

And then you procede to demonstrate you either haven't played the game - or are talking out of your ass. Though your level in skills will rise - the attributes that go with them will not. So - while you may be able to meet the proficiency requirements of say FINGER OF THE MOUNTAIN - because you DONT level-up, you wont have a magic pool large enough to do anything with it. Whooooo! What fun.

And then you "procede" [sic] to demonstrate a fundamental ignorance of Oblivion's levelling mechanics. That spell (like many quest rewards) is based on your level, not your abilities. In other words, earning that spell at lvl 1 with a very high Destruction skill (precisely the scenario of the P/Ling method to which you were replying) will work fine: you'll get the weakest possible variant of the spell with the lowest possible Magicka costs.

I suppose you had no idea the quest reward is levelled. Honestly, these conversations with you are starting to feel a bit, well, remedial.

 

[ANDS!]

A couple of prescripted events and guard RAI (retarded artificial intelligence) in operation.

Pre-scripted. . .I doubt it. It was neither part of any quest, nor there when I loaded the game from an older save.

The guard AI - as has been stated many times - is bad. Something easily fixed in a patch.

If you'd like to compare serious writing samples rather than bitchy internet forum posts, maybe we can do that sometime over a snifter of absinthe.

You had me until you made this painful art-house reference. An absinthe drinker - color me un-impressed. I'll leave you to your snifters, and your wicked awesome Thujone levels though - whatever floats your boat. Seriously - snarf. . .

And then you "procede" [sic] to demonstrate a fundamental ignorance of Oblivion's levelling mechanics. That spell (like most quest rewards) is based on your level, not your abilities.

Cookie for you - one example somehow invalidates the point? Again. . .what good is your book-learning going to do ya - if you have neither the strength, magicka, fatigue - etc. to take advantage of any of these "uber-powers" available to high skill leveled characters - which was your point to begin with, not quest rewards.

 

[suibhne]

You had me until you made this painful art-house reference. An absinthe drinker - color me un-impressed. I'll leave you to your snifters, and your wicked awesome Thujone levels though - whatever floats your boat. Seriously - snarf. . .

I should obviously work on making my sarcasm a bit more paint-by-number.

Cookie for you - one example somehow invalidates the point? Again. . .what good is your book-learning going to do ya - if you have neither the strength, magicka, fatigue - etc. to take advantage of any of these "uber-powers" available to high skill leveled characters - which was your point to begin with, not quest rewards.

Well, it wasn't my point; you were responding to another poster re. P/Ling. But I'm happy to take up the slack by revealing the surprising - nay, SHOCKING - fact that you're missing the boat again. Riddle me this: if almost everything in the gameworld is scaled to you at lvl 1, why do you require "uber-powers"?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

wicked awesome

Mass-hole.

 

[ANDS!]

Sure you can powerlevel. you only need not to advance levels and then you will get high skills but all enemies is still on level 1. That way you have made the most powerful character.

Riddle me this: if almost everything in the gameworld is scaled to you at lvl 1, why do you require "uber-powers"?

I'll let you gents work things out - and once you've figured out what YOURE arguing. . .you come on back to the thread.

 

[obediah]

Riddle me this: if almost everything in the gameworld is scaled to you at lvl 1, why do you require "uber-powers"?

Better yet, what good do the "uber-powers" you level up to get and use do you? You can't go anywhere new. For the most-part you can't kill any new creatures (we don't even get pallete swaps!). You certainly can't kill the same old creatures any faster, or in any larger numbers. I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out why I'm the chosen one, since any barmaid, guard, bandit, goblin, or bear could do as well as I. I do completely fucking pwn mudcrabs though, so there is that.

 

[suibhne]

Again. . .what good is your book-learning going to do ya - if you have neither the strength, magicka, fatigue - etc. to take advantage of any of these "uber-powers" available to high skill leveled characters.

I never stumbled upon a mob much stronger than me, so I could return there much later with a vengeance, expecting some reward.

I'll let you gents work things out. Once you've figured out what YOU'RE arguing...you come on back to the thread.

 

[kris]

Sure you can powerlevel.

And then you procede to demonstrate you either haven't played the game - or are talking out of your ass. Though your level in skills will rise - the attributes that go with them will not. So - while you may be able to meet the proficiency requirements of say FINGER OF THE MOUNTAIN - because you DONT level-up, you wont have a magic pool large enough to do anything with it. Whooooo! What fun.

I played it. I talked about melee/ranged skills mainly. Fact is that you grow in power, but your enemies does not. Whether this is the most effective way of powerleveling I do not know since that is not something I ever aim for.

 

[Nog Robbin]

Had another classic OB WTF moment last night. My daughters character woke up after sleeping in one of the tents outside of Kvatch to find the speaker from the Dark Brotherhood there to offer her a job. Very secretive - very hush hush, only comes when you sleep in a safe place. So, there he was offering her a job as an assassin... with Martin standing right next to him the whole time. Brilliant. Needless to say, Martin didn't say anything about it - almost as if he never saw it happen...