Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Oblivion question for MSFD

Abernathy

Scholar
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
174
Location
New Zealand
Excrément said:
I don't think people using "pussy", "fuck" 10 times a post are older than 20 otherwise I feel sorry for them.

You'd prefer censorship then? In reality, you're obviously exaggerating, but I do take your meaning. But if you're advocating drawing a line, you're the one who has to say where it should be drawn. Are you up to that?

I disagree with you, Bethesda is not dumbing downs games even if I prefer TES 2 to Morrowind.
What I have heard yet about Oblivion seems very good for me, but I will play the game before saying this feeling was right or not.

Um. How shall I put this? - have you actually played Morrowind, seen any screenies of Oblivion or read anything about it?
 

Excrément

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
1,005
Location
Rockville
Seboss said:
Riight. Good for you.
Nevertheless, the codex would be a friendlier and more interesting place if the big boys could find a middleground between retarded fanboyism and pompous condescension
and rudeness.
I have nothing against causticity and can't stand rainbow country either. But this goes too far, too often and impedes communication.

Or maybe I'm completely mistaken and the codex is a place to test your wits and sharp tongue against others on a RPG background ?

Overmoderated forums lead the forum to "fanboyism"
Nonmoderrated forums lead the forum to rudeness when "non-rude or fanboy people" give up because of the stupidity of the others. MSFD was one of them, since he left, this forum is getting worse every day.
 

LlamaGod

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
3,095
Location
Yes
when you get friendly, you end up like rpgdot

the codex isnt really that bad, its just friviolous interweb flaming thrown in with hardcore RPG fandom and shook around a bit and cooked at 400 degrees for 30 minutes (celcius is for communists)

most of the insults and flaming doesnt even mean anything, so if you read into it and take offense you're pretty silly

I'd say a good portion of fanboyism for games we like is mostly done for the purpose of keeping the game in circulation among discussions and as 'milestones' of quality, if nobody talked about them anymore they might be forgotten and modern crapfests like Bethesda's games will end up becoming the standards

Unfortunately, there are people that do actually think stuff like Bethesda's games are the standard and they are the ones that are the target of ridicule. The ones that do the 'oh man, morrowind was just so vast it was impossible to finish. greatest rpg evar'.
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
Abernathy said:
Anyway, my point stands whether or not MSFD left here miffed. We don't, and shouldn't, mince words. If I think you're a fucktard I'll say so - and priase Murphy that here, I can!
I quoted your bit there that mentioned "the incident" specifically, but I really meant to respond the last couple pages of posts here.

By and large I agree with the rest of what you said. I'm prolly a little sadder about the loss than you, a dev that could and would stand up to this shit deserves some respect, and to be listened too. I agree tho that if it's one that -can't- stand it Codex is better off without.

Saddest of all would be if he was told not to be here by his employers (which I have no evidence of at all) I can see where he wouldn't be able to revel -everything- about Oblivion, but to be completely shut down would de a shame.

Oh, and you're a douchebag. :D
 

Abernathy

Scholar
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
174
Location
New Zealand
Seboss said:
Nevertheless, the codex would be a friendlier and more interesting place if the big boys could find a middleground between retarded fanboyism and pompous condescension
and rudeness.
I have nothing against causticity and can't stand rainbow country either. But this goes too far, too often and impedes communication.

Or maybe I'm completely mistaken and the codex is a place to test your wits and sharp tongue against others on a RPG background ?

I'd prefer the former.

I don't and can't speak for the Codex - as I said earlier, I'm relatively new here, but I can relate very much to what you're saying.

As it is, however, you have to deal with what IS, not what we'd like it to be. Sort the wheat from the chaff, the idiots from the people you can actually communicate with, and get what you can from what's actually a really nice (if somewhat rough) community.

I'd hate not to be able to call Derek Smart a fuckhead if ever he showed his face here - we NEED to be able to be obnoxious, otherwise what's the friggin point???
 

Excrément

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
1,005
Location
Rockville
Abernathy said:
Excrément said:
I don't think people using "pussy", "fuck" 10 times a post are older than 20 otherwise I feel sorry for them.

You'd prefer censorship then? In reality, you're obviously exaggerating, but I do take your meaning. But if you're advocating drawing a line, you're the one who has to say where it should be drawn. Are you up to that?

I disagree with you, Bethesda is not dumbing downs games even if I prefer TES 2 to Morrowind.
What I have heard yet about Oblivion seems very good for me, but I will play the game before saying this feeling was right or not.

Um. How shall I put this? - have you actually played Morrowind, seen any screenies of Oblivion or read anything about it?

I don't like censoreship, one of the charm of this forum it is because there is no censorship but what I dislike in this forum it is that we only hear the same rude people every day. It was more moderated without moderators before (even if I am a member since 2 days, I read this forum for a while).

I played Morrowind for 8 months until my desktop crashed and get a laptop instead which can't run Morrowind. I liked the game, the explorating part was very good, but the lack of immersion and the lack of role-play disapointed me.

I know all the info available about Oblivion and I think it is gonna be a great game with more role-play than Morrowind.
 

Seboss

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
947
Fortunately, I don't take flaming too seriously and I'm not easily offended.
You want to try me. Here you are: I'm French. Do your worst you regressive soggybottomed American redneck ;)

On topic. I understand your merciless with Beth and their fanboys because you don't want modern TES games to be the standards. Right, I agree.
But, come on, you will play the friggin game. It won't be the most awe inspiring RP experience since Fallout of course but it will be fun for a while. It can't be worse than Morrowind anyway.

It's better than nothing, or is it ?
 

LlamaGod

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
3,095
Location
Yes
I know all the info available about Oblivion and I think it is gonna be a great game with more role-play than Morrowind.

From all they've said about it, Oblivion reminds me more of a Morrowind: Directors Cut then anything else.

Morrowind with prettier graphics and a few features that other games did better tossed in and things they fucked up in Morrowind cut out (instead of being fixed)
 

Abernathy

Scholar
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
174
Location
New Zealand
dongle said:
Saddest of all would be if he was told not to be here by his employers (which I have no evidence of at all) I can see where he wouldn't be able to revel -everything- about Oblivion, but to be completely shut down would de a shame.

Nobody was asking him to reveal any secrets, they were (from memory) asking why OB was suffering from a major series of super-hyped features being slowly stripped from the game.

I guess he just got defensive on Beth's behalf - hell, I probably would too, if they were paying me!

But I also hope it wasn't Bethesda telling him not to come here - that would be sad indeed.

Oh, and you're a douchebag. :D

Fuckhead.
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
LlamaGod said:
most of the insults and flaming doesnt even mean anything, so if you read into it and take offense you're pretty silly
Actually I think it's a big plus. Acts as a sort of lamer filter. Some fanboy comes gushing in cuz he heard about the latest screenshot or tidbit of info. A page or two of grumpy insults and disgusting porn and they go whimpering off with their tail between the legs. Only, it's not -all- potty mouthed ranting, not by a long-shot. The folks with at least a few brain cells, a bit of patience, and non-fragile egos stick around and find that out.
 

Excrément

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
1,005
Location
Rockville
From all they've said about it, Oblivion reminds me more of a Morrowind: Directors Cut then anything else.

Morrowind with prettier graphics and a few features that other games did better tossed in and things they fucked up in Morrowind cut out (instead of being fixed)

What I like so far in Oblivion it is that I think (I may be wrong but we will see) there will be a huge difference if you play a stealth character or a warrior or a pure mage. You will see more the difference than in Morrowind. Every guilds has also a stoyline this time and the developers said there were a lot of political plots or stuff like that. For me it is good news. Immersio is gonna be better, so the game is gonna be better.
The world will be more alive also due to RAI.
I like the new combat system also (depends on opinion of course).

A lot of stuff disapoint me also (less skills, no Nine Divines as a joinable faction...) but for me I will have a very good role-play experience and a very good explorating experience also (that's why they made a quite huge worl with good graphics).
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
Excrément said:
for me I will have a very good role-play experience and a very good explorating experience also (that's why they made a quite huge worl with good graphics).
. . . with a three-inch compass on your screen pointing out all the good stuff, a fast-travel map which points out exactly where you need to go for your current quest, someone to read all the text to you, all because Xboxers found it "too hard" to figure out a dead-simple "find this guy" quest. That's called dumbing it down.
 

Abernathy

Scholar
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
174
Location
New Zealand
Excrément said:
[I know all the info available about Oblivion and I think it is gonna be a great game with more role-play than Morrowind.

That wouldn't be very hard. I get the distinct feeling I already have Oblivion on my shelf, maybe without the voiceovers and soil erosion though.

Seboss said:
It's better than nothing, or is it ?

No, it's not. Don't encourage them to keep churning out crap. I don't know how much I've spent over the last few years buying the same game over and over again. It's crap, it's fucking Hollywood all over again, sequel after fucking sequel with stupid paintjobs and removal of gameplay - honestly, I'm NOT upgrading this bloody machine again for the sake of another fucking remake - even Gothic III (which I'm really looking forward to) - bugger it, give me value for money or go fuck yourself!

[/outburst]
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
Seboss said:
You want to try me. Here you are: I'm French. Do your worst you regressive soggybottomed American redneck ;)
Vous êtes Excrément
 

dongle

Scholar
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
838
Abernathy said:
Merde, I think.
A subtle play on words, see; I'm comparing him to our latest gushing fanboy, -and- that which comes from a but. . . .
 

Nog Robbin

Scholar
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
392
Location
UK
Excrément said:
there will be a huge difference if you play a stealth character or a warrior or a pure mage. You will see more the difference than in Morrowind. Every guilds has also a stoyline this time and the developers said there were a lot of political plots or stuff like that. For me it is good news. Immersio is gonna be better, so the game is gonna be better.
The world will be more alive also due to RAI.
I like the new combat system also (depends on opinion of course).
Not so sure of the "huge difference". Sure - they have (apparently) added some penalties to sneaking and magic wearing heavy armour. But otherwise the changes sound pretty minor. And you *can* still sneak in heavy plate or cast efficiently when you are skilled - which everyone inevitably comes... at everything. Even more-so now what with only 21 skills total.
Guilds apparently do have more fleshed out quests. But apparently there is no crossing story line between them, no animosity between guilds, and no decisions a player can take and live with the consequences for.
They haven't mentioned much about the political plots "or stuff" - but if the outcome of this doesn't change the game, or even give a different aspect to your relationship with characters, what's the point? The game is still geared around allowing a single character to do everything, own everything, achieve everything.
Immersion - graphically will be improved. Havok isn't playing any where near a big enough part really to warrant it going in in the first place. A few physics based traps (that have no bearing on character skill at all and just rely on player skill!) seems to be the only game effecting use - the rest is rag doll (for deaths) and the ability to move things - which have no effect on NPC's at all. We already know throwing an object won't hurt them, and we haven't been told whether they will even react to having things thrown at them (I suspect not).
RAI is being over hyped by far too many people as TESF. It's already been stated that it's really just to add some life/schedules to the chaaracters. Sure - it probably could have been more, but it's had to be tamed rather much to prevent any game breaking issues. Yes - it will be good to see people going about their daily lives - but that's about it for RAI I think.
As for the combat system - this one is really personal taste. The combat in MW wasn't challenging - but then to me it was just a representation of my character fighting so didn't bother me that I just had to click on the enemy. If the new system means I have to learn fancy combos to take out tough enemies I won't be that enthralled. If I want a fighting game, I'd get DOA or something (which use physics in a far prettier fashion!) and would be a better overall fighting experience anyway.

And that's before we start discussing the removal of teleportation, levitation, the non-implementation of mounted combat, the reduction of skills, the inclusion of a dumb quest compass that can't be switched off etc.
And that's before we start discussing the dismal PR - focussing on graphics (which are having to be reduced for performance anyway), soil erosion (FFS - who cares?), and Patrick Stewart et al.
 

Abernathy

Scholar
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
174
Location
New Zealand
dongle said:
Abernathy said:
Merde, I think.
A subtle play on words, see; I'm comparing him to our latest gushing fanboy, -and- that which comes from a but. . . .

Ah.

Which brings us neatly back on topic - it's one thing to gush and entirely another to know what you're gushing about. Without the input from people like MSFD, we don't really have a lot of informed counters to what codexers are worried about, so it's all a bit sad really.

So given the necessity for the input and the need to be a trifle thick-skinned in these parts, I'll issue forth the challenge to Beth:

GET YER FUCKING ARSES BACK HERE YOU COWARDS!

Does that sound about right?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Just to clarify something, I talked to MSFD (via PM). He gave me a reason for not being here, and it's got nothing to do with that stupid meteor comment that was a long time ago, btw or not being able to handle some heat.
 

VenomByte

Scholar
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
271
Nice to know that VD.

Not that surprising though, I didn't think MSFD was likely to pack up bags and leave on account of some inane comment. He's stuck around through plenty enough oblivion dev flaming as it is.

Personally, I would suspect it's more likely either
a) absolutely zero spare time
b) commands from the powers that be

It would surprise me if it had nothing to do with Bethesda.

Maybe it's because his prescemce here causes too much throwing of rattles from the pram by TES forumites feeling neglected.

Maybe they can't really have a dev hanging out in an unmoderated places with numerous references, links, and discussions of hentai, goatse, et al.

Since links to the codex are banned, they can't very well have a dev posting here and offering his thoughts... much better to disassociate themselves from this place entirely.
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
It has been pretty damn obvious that it is now Bethesda company policy that no developer post at this site, due to the adverse publicity it generates (TES forumers being 'enlightened'), and a perception of 'bad influence' on TES forumers due to unrestricted discussion here.

Next.
 

Antiphon

Scholar
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
112
Claw said:
Whereas you are just spamming, full stop.

We were carrying on a conversation at ESF. I stayed up to reply to Nog. Still waiting for a reply. Thought I might goad him into returning.

It's tough arguing with someone who's not a child.

edit: spelling
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom